New "Newton was wrong" F15C demo ;)

[Vecko]

With music...;)

[Nate--IRL--]

No wonder I was getting my ass handed to me against F-15s in Online Gunzo, I've never flown the F-15, I didn't stand a chance. The track really does highlight the limitations of the SFM, but the 50m turning circle is due to get a fix IIRC.

 

Love the tune!

 

Nate

[Vecko]

Yes , F-15 is mostly used this days on gunso servers...i'm wondering why?:music_whistling:

 

But...ED anounced some fixes for F-15 so i'm peaceful...;)

[A.S]

AWESOME !!

 

I am still trying to get the :D out of my face.

 

"LoooK mOOmAAA, Hands freee" :lol:

 

PS: in favour of Mr. Newton, lets say..he just wasnt fully right ..hehe

 

...guess Yo-Yo will think about this and fix it ..i have THrust...erm sorry...Trust.

Edited May 4, 2010 by A.S

[FLANKERATOR]

iF some one can make fraps shots, it would be so nicel...i dont have fc2...:D

[RvEFuSiOn]

Excellent work Vecko, this truly shows how porked the F-15 in FC2 is.

A question comes to mind though...

Who tested the Flight models before approving them? Just curious...

 

Ive always felt the Gravity modeling in the entire lockon series is off...

Eg. As if there is no gravity constant applied whatsoever..

Peace

Edited May 4, 2010 by =RvE=FuSiOn

[EdForceOne]

Hahaha, kakva fora!! Ma, ocigledno je gosp. Verner fon Braun projektovao motore za F-15...

 

ENG: Isn't it obvious that Mr. Verner Fon Braun designed the engine of the Eagle? Imagine, two Saturn-5's behind you! Ahahahaha!

[159th_Viper]

Amazing - One mistake and everyone's all over it like Flies to a Turd :music_whistling:

 

No chance to rectify, no waiting for the Patch to see if the issue is resolved, No......We'll go about Beating the Horse till it's Dead, Defibrillate and by Golly Beat it once more, Rinse and Repeat!

 

Thou dost Protest too Much......

[EdForceOne]

Thou dost Protest too Much......

And, by Gods name, I shalt... They have delayed the release of the FC2 so that everything be wrapped up and neat. It doesn't seem neat to me. :doh:

[RvEFuSiOn]

Amazing - One mistake and everyone's all over it like Flies to a Turd :music_whistling:

 

No chance to rectify, no waiting for the Patch to see if the issue is resolved, No......We'll go about Beating the Horse till it's Dead, Defibrillate and by Golly Beat it once more, Rinse and Repeat!

 

Thou dost Protest too Much......

 

Actually Viper, I had discovered this one mistake exactly 2 minutes in to the sim the day it was released, and if a FM is messed up it needs to be fixed and questions should be answered... We paid for a game with certain level of expectations and a few have not been met. Thats all it is. Why are you opposed to people asking questions?

 

Peace

[borchi_2b]

why he is opposed, cause his f15c, incognito f22, will get ist wings cut down to realism. so then he has only the super power aim120c-5 which is in service since 2000, to maybe get a kill, and not being able to fool good pilots in bfms. thats why he is opposed, like many others here.

 

but here is one simple but good question in this threat. who were the tester for this fc2.0. have they tested anything. is there a team of tester, who actually is only there for testing the fm, or the fm of missiles, or weapons or is there any structure at all?

 

how many tester are there by the way?

[Frazer]

The only new thing I saw is the thrust to weight ratio being off, making it possible to do an insane tight turn.

 

All the rest like the tail stand, the sudden jump up from a tail stand and the freezing like a brick was there from the very first LockOn version and will not be fixed in the FC2 patch eighter. That is just the standard flight model and all aircraft behave like that.

 

It is quite pointless to doom ED for that now, as they are and will do an awesome job on the DCS aircraft series.

 

Let's be happy ED is putting efford in to a basically outdated product.

[RvEFuSiOn]

 

Let's be happy ED is putting efford in to a basically outdated product.

 

You make it sound like they are doing it for free? Im sorry Frazer i don't agree with your viewpoint on this.

Peace

[EtherealN]

why he is opposed, cause his f15c, incognito f22, will get ist wings cut down to realism. so then he has only the super power aim120c-5 which is in service since 2000, to maybe get a kill, and not being able to fool good pilots in bfms. thats why he is opposed, like many others here.

 

Borchi, you really need to check yourself before things like that fly out of your mouth.

 

You realize that Viper is a T-Frog and Shark pilot, not an Eagle pilot, right? You are talking about a well known and leading veteran pilot in a squadrion that flies Ka-50, Su-25, Su-27 and Su-33. I suggest you apologize to him for the insinuations you just leveled against him and retract that foot from your mouth.

 

That's where those tired conspiracy theories get you - they make you look silly.

 

I mean, I don't know, maybe look at his signature pic?

Edited May 5, 2010 by EtherealN

[A.S]

The matter of fact that he is a real pilot (im not impressed by that at all, but respect the person) doesnt change the fact that 2.0 has errors needs to be fixed!

[EvilBivol-1]

As Frazer pointed out, the physics-defying effects in the track are not new or introduced in FC2, but rather limitations of the way SFM aircraft behave in critical flight conditions, which has existed since its inception. The main changes introduced in FC2 were adjustments to thrust-to-weight and drag values. Some of these were indeed erroneous and will be fixed in the patch. Some not.

 

Regarding testing, I would only suggest that it is easy to question the work of testers without knowing all of the issues that had been worked on and were successfully caught and resolved. A few issues may slip through as dozens of others are addressed. The matter is made more difficult when release is pressing and changes are still being made in each new final build, because the team is eager to do what the players ask and get it into the release.

Edited May 5, 2010 by EvilBivol-1

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

You guys who laugh and ridicule ED and beta tester team for the F-15 thrust to weight ratio bug, I have a question for you? Can you produce a better simulator? If yes, I would happily pay you $19.95 for your effort.

 

In the mean time, ask not what ED can do for you , but ask what you can do for the FC and BS community.

[A.S]

@Evilbivol-1:

 

Noone expects perfectionism, but is this case some of us really wondered -no bad feelings- if actually ANYONE has ever flown what he has programmed, and if so, how he could have missed that.

And yes, much succsess in fixing it for the interest of all.

Look, we are currently very eager to support this community further by placing 2.0 into TCL too, but unfortunatly it is not useable in current situation whatsoever and its implications in gameplay.

So, yes we want DCS to be "better" .....all we (those, who dont make it) can do right now, is to point out flaws.

Edited May 5, 2010 by A.S

[EvilBivol-1]

Pointing out flaws in a matter that is not hostile or offensive toward peoples' work is not just okay, but appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't think this difference is always understood as much as it should be. In particular, this applies to the work of testers, who are volunteering countless hours and perform their duties well enough to ensure ED's products are generally free of major issues at release time and again.

 

As I said, changes in this category (F-15 flight model) were being introduced in each new final build and as testers were given assignments to test specific issues, there may not have been enough time to explore other issues based on their own inverstigations. In the end, some bugs did slip through and this is the responsibility of the developer and testig teams, which is why both have been spending time since the release investigating the FMs and introducing fixes for the patch.

 

Personally, I learned long a go to stop assuming any fix or patch will be 100% to satisfaction. These are PC simulations and there will always be issues to address. Unfortunately, there are not the resources to address them infinitely.

Edited May 5, 2010 by EvilBivol-1

[Feuerfalke]

There is no such thing as a perfect product, no matter how long it takes or how long experts try to make it perfect. And the more complex the product, the more chances for error there are.

 

Question is how you personally life and deal with this fact. Do you accept it, report the error you found and help it being fixed, or do you rather tend to get upset, insult other people and make a fool of yourself.

 

Your choice.

[RvEYoda]

The only new thing I saw is the thrust to weight ratio being off, making it possible to do an insane tight turn.

 

Not twr that is wrong, but close :).

 

• Acceleration matches the real jet (pure TWR)
  
• Turn rates at low speeds are wrong, reason: the drag modeling below a certain speed is off in the release version, both with and without flaps
  
• Turn rates at medium speeds match the real jet very well. (within 5%)
  
• Turn rates at high speeds are inferior to the real jet because of the SFM heritage (G/AoA limiter)
  

 

The problem (in red) is being adressed.

 

.

Edited May 5, 2010 by =RvE=Yoda

[sobek]

how many tester are there by the way?

 

Go take a look. Bottom of the ED forums front page, there's a link called 'view forum leaders'. That's the who's who.

[Groove]

It's one thing to find a bug and another thing to fix it.

 

I strongly suppose people to start acting like matures and cut the crap out of their criticism.

[UWBuRn]

One thing i'm not getting: F-15, Su-27 and MiG-29 should have a TWR > 1.

 

So at low alt and not heavily loaded they should be able to accelerate in vertical climb: i'm not surprised that the F-15 can do that in game (leaving out the quirks of the SFM) but i'm missing why Su-27 and MiG-29 can't do the same.

 

:huh:

[Frazer]

You make it sound like they are doing it for free? Im sorry Frazer i don't agree with your viewpoint on this.

Peace

What I ment is that ED could also let you fly with FC1 for several years more.

 

Not twr that is wrong, but close :).

 

• Acceleration matches the real jet (pure TWR)
  
• Turn rates at low speeds are wrong, reason: the drag modeling below a certain speed is off in the release version, both with and without flaps
  
  
• Turn rates at medium speeds match the real jet very well. (within 5%)
  
  
• Turn rates at high speeds are inferior to the real jet because of the SFM heritage (G/AoA limiter)
  

 

The problem (in red) is being adressed.

 

.

I just wanted to point out to people that most of what can be seen in the track is nothing new, but thanks for the details. :)