blackshark or lock on

[bigdog4215]

which one would best for sim rookie

[TAIPAN_]

Do you like helos or fixed wing planes?

 

Do you like the idea of fighter pilot or strike/bomber air support pilot?

[Boberro]

Lock on is for sim very high rookies :)

[CAT_101st]

BS can be put into game mode to make things easyer. FC2 has more options in air frames to play with. FC2 does not have as many things to learn as BS if in simulation mode. But BS will blow your mind if you learn it right.

[element1108]

Both would be ideal, if you have the cash, you'll probably never play another sim for a long time (until a10C comes out). Lots to keep you busy with 8 airframes and multiple combat roles. :)

[bigdog4215]

thanks for the insight guys,i already have bs but i m having trouble learning what all the knobs and switches do.i was just wondering if lock on would give me more of an understanding of all of the insterments.i don t when to to hit and turn switches and knobs.

[159th_Viper]

........but i m having trouble learning what all the knobs and switches do.i was just wondering if lock on would give me more of an understanding of all of the insterments.i don t when to to hit and turn switches and knobs.

 

 

Watch the Producer's Notes :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/eagledcs

[bigdog4215]

Watch the Producer's Notes :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/eagledcs

those are very helpful videos,are those the videos that i seen when i installed the game.i tried to find them again and couldn t find them.can somebody tell where to look so i can watch them again.

[2GvSAP_Dart]

It's actually not that hard to learn Black Shark if you aren't a switchologist.

 

Even in "simulation" mode, most of the stuff isn't really used 95% of the time.

 

This might help a bit:

 

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_421a.html

 

(Disclaimer - I wrote that article)

 

I worked it out — there are only 16 selector switches in the cockpit and twelve keyboard commands one has to know in order to fly and fight the Ka-50, including engine start up and shut down, raising and lowering gear, enabling and firing weapons, and having fun. Most of those command requirements are linked and very easy to learn (or are typical of any flight simulation).

[bigdog4215]

It's actually not that hard to learn Black Shark if you aren't a switchologist.

 

Even in "simulation" mode, most of the stuff isn't really used 95% of the time.

 

This might help a bit:

 

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_421a.html

 

(Disclaimer - I wrote that article)

thanks man,there is some stuff in there that i didn t even know

[dburne]

those are very helpful videos,are those the videos that i seen when i installed the game.i tried to find them again and couldn t find them.can somebody tell where to look so i can watch them again.

 

The Producer's Notes video are all on the Black Shark DVD under a folder named " video". These do not get installed by default.

I copied mine over to my hard drive to have them easily accessible.

[TAIPAN_]

It's actually not that hard to learn Black Shark if you aren't a switchologist.

 

Even in "simulation" mode, most of the stuff isn't really used 95% of the time.

 

This might help a bit:

 

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_421a.html

 

(Disclaimer - I wrote that article)

 

Thanks Dart I began with that article and it got me going when I was having trouble absorbing everything last year.

 

Another note. Leave labels on for the first month to help find targets while your trying to control the bird.

 

If u need more info http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/Resources_for_New_Pilots

[isoul]

I own both, bought DCS:BS before FC2.0.

 

I found FC2.0 aircraft easier to handle and learn while the Black Shark, with its extra fidelity flight model and controls, is quite a time consuming process to master. Even the Su-25T with its advanced flight model is easier to handle that Ka-50. Even in real life jets are more straight forward to operate than helicopters!

 

Apart from this, its up to you if you like attack helicopters or fixed wing aircraft better. I find fixed wing aircraft lot easier and straightforward to fly than rotary wing (helis). Even if you are addicted to strike role, the Su-25T gives different capabilities than Ka-50 and vice versa.

 

If lower difficulty is what you want get FC2.0... then move to BS to experience the ultra realistic flight model and procedures.

[2GvSAP_Dart]

The real beauty of Black Shark is its scaleability - it is the first sim that has struck the right balance in letting folks of different skills fly together harmoniously.

 

By giving us the "cheats" of engine startup and shutdown and NOT tagging that to a difficulty level they enable the guys like me (basic stick and rudder guys who don't use autopilots) to fly with the fully educated (who memorize startup sequences, data transmission, autopilots, etc) in the same server.

 

I was positively gobsmacked that when they implemented the "new" trim they left the old style as an option. Too often developers will "improve" a sim in a way that subtracts as much as it adds.

 

The only quibble I can think of is the recent language thing, but even that can be easily fixed (thanks to Dragon).

[isoul]

The real beauty of Black Shark is its scaleability - it is the first sim that has struck the right balance in letting folks of different skills fly together harmoniously.

 

To me scalability when comes to flight model isn't a desired thing. Learn to fly in easy flight model and you just did one step backward from point "zero" in learning to fly the Ka-50 in realistic FM.

 

Easy flight model IMHO doesn't give you anything in the long term. The helicopter is so easy to handle and you get the wrong impression. When I started flying with the Shark (without enabling realistic flight model) I thought "I was born for" this since I handled the helicopter precisely in zero time. When I realized that this was not the realistic one and switched it on I felt the full potential of this simulation.

Edited May 24, 2010 by isoul

[bigdog4215]

To me scalability when comes to flight model isn't a desired thing. Learn to fly in easy flight model and you just did one step backward from point "zero" in learning to fly the Ka-50 in realistic FM.

 

Easy flight model IMHO doesn't give you anything in the long term. The helicopter is so easy to handle and you get the wrong impression. When I started flying with the Shark (without enabling realistic flight model) I thought "I was born for" this since I handled the helicopter precisely in zero time. When I realized that this was not the realistic one and switched it on I felt the full potential of this simulation.

i just started learning how to start it up manually,i got up in the air but i m having an hard time learning how to use the navigation panel and hitting the right switches for the targetting and weapons system.when i finally did get it the air,for some reason it kept going backwards and causing me to go upside down and crashing

[winz]

To me scalability when comes to flight model isn't a desired thing. Learn to fly in easy flight model and you just did one step backward from point "zero" in learning to fly the Ka-50 in realistic FM.

But if you are a sim rookie you got tons of things you need to worry about, not just the actual flight model. You got little undestanding for the regular fly instruments (artificial horizont, HSI, vertical speed...). You don't yet have the habbit of regulary scanning your instruments. You get fixated on one instrument very easily. You are overhelmed with the steep learning curve.

 

Anything that can ease the learning curve just a little bit is welcome.

[EtherealN]

Thing is that flying with the "game" flight model doesn't ease the learning cuver - it introduces an element of what's called "negative training" amongst commercial and military simulators; that is, the pilot learns things that will not transfer to the real plaen and that will then have to be "unlearned".

 

If you want to reduce the learning curve, just employ a good syllabus. Don't do several things at once: start with just learning to fly and ignore everything else. Once you are proficient at handling the helicopter, then you can start on the specifics of your instrumentation, avionics, navigation, weapons and so on. But one at a time.

 

Not to talk down the "game" flight model. If what you want is a more gamey experience then that's all fine and dandy - even the old novalogic Werewolf game was a lot of fun even if it didn't even try to be a proper simulator. But to think that using that flight model will ease your training you are making a mistake, IMO.

[2GvSAP_Dart]

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear on the scaleability. "Full difficulty" FM and DM for me, please (I agree that it is better to LWin+Home and learn to fly in sim mode and then worry about switchology), but no forcing of learning things I have absolutely no desire to study.

 

If you want to reduce the learning curve, just employ a good syllabus. Don't do several things at once: start with just learning to fly and ignore everything else. Once you are proficient at handling the helicopter, then you can start on the specifics of your instrumentation, avionics, navigation, weapons and so on. But one at a time.

 

QFT.

 

However, I can fly with my friends who are total checklist gurus that know every switch and knob in the same server and not flip a tenth of the switches they do. They trim constantly. I trim once, right after takeoff, for a hover. They program multiple targets, auto hover, and have the machine turn automatically to the selected one. I stick in a hover by hand, use my Mark One eyeball for likely enemy locations, slew the Shkval by using the drop down eyepiece, and just remember where the next target is going to be.

 

One doesn't have to use all that crap even in "full difficulty" settings is my point.

 

Get in as deep as you want - the water is pretty shallow if you don't want to go above your knees even in "simulation" mode, but there's a trench out there if you're looking to pop your ears with information.

[dburne]

Dart - you did an excellent job on that article, it certainly has been a great help for me in my learning - I referenced it early on when I was getting into BS.

 

Interesting how you handle the trim - so your saying you do not hold the trim button in whilst maneuvering the BS? I tried it that way just to see how it did, and it felt like I was constantly having to fight the chopper to get it to turn.

 

I have grown accustomed to holding the trim in whilst turning and then when I am going straight for a distance releasing it. I have the trim programmed to my pinkie lever on my Cougar to facilitate making it easy for me to do this.

Perhaps I have done it for so long now I have just gotten used to it, as that is how I learned when I first got the sim around Sept of last year.

 

As far as autohover, sometimes I use it and sometimes I don't - depending on the situation and if I feel I have time to mess with it - but I have gotten fairly good at being able to implement it quickly. There are instances it doesn't make sense though, like when using rockets - you just have to keep fighting the autohover to position the reticule over the target to be able to fire and hit. But I do like the move on target button when I have time to use that.

 

This is certainly an interesting thread , kind of motivates me to purchase Flaming Cliffs 2 now. I would probably enjoy it, and now that I can do most of the basics in BS I feel I would be able to learn it fairly quickly.

 

Now I am not a switchologist though - I really like my left win key and home key for startup let me tell ya!

[2GvSAP_Dart]

Naw, I set up for hover about 25 feet up and trim it right there. When I'm fairly well settled in, I do a cardinal direction check with the rudders to see how much of that is wind. If it's not drifting too bad, off I go, flying the rest "by hand."

 

When I need to hover, the controls are pretty much in position for staying there with only some fine tuning required (usually - depends on wind and stuff).

 

Truthfully, most missions are so short in the flying department that it's not a chore to work off the "hover center" and definately allows for some quick reaction. Never have to un-trim from forward flight....

[InFireBaptize]

BS would be my choise

 

It boils down to how much time you are willing to invest to learn without getting frustrated because you can easily get so with BS. If you have the time to learn go for BS, the manual start up procedure is amazing (try to learn it). I have memorized it :pilotfly: then learn the weapon system (big challenge but lots of fun) then the ABRIS. This was how i learned it but i'm still a noob when it comes to ABRIS :joystick: and i'm still learning. The guys before me pretty much summed it up for yea. I do like LOFC, i just don't have the time right now to go through manuals and videos to be able to play it the way i like it to be played. The thing that amazes me about BS is flying feels so real that if you jerk the BS it will spin and plummet to the ground. Good luck whatever you choose. Don't forget to ask for :helpsmilie: if you needed it :thumbup:

Edited May 25, 2010 by InFireBaptize

[Logan9773]

which one would best for sim rookie

 

I think the question is, do you want realism or not?

 

Realism = Black Shark

 

Game = Lock on.

 

As one Open Falcon player said, "I'd rather have a sister in a whorehouse, than a brother who plays Lock On." :lol:

 

Mean, but it says it well.

 

I'm from the Falcon 3 and 4 and later Open Falcon community. I don't play Lock On because its just not very real. If you've never played a flight sim, you might like it, but if you really want to learn aircraft the right way, go with Black Shark.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Logan9773

[Logite]

I think the question is, do you want realism or not?

 

Realism = Black Shark

 

Game = Lock on.

 

As one Open Falcon player said, "I'd rather have a sister in a whorehouse, than a brother who plays Lock On." :lol:

 

Mean, but it says it well.

 

I'm from the Falcon 3 and 4 and later Open Falcon community. I don't play Lock On because its just not very real. If you've never played a flight sim, you might like it, but if you really want to learn aircraft the right way, go with Black Shark.

 

Wait, what?

[winz]

Don't get another pathetic lockon vs falcon fanbois flame started....