Minimum required equipment for enjoyable experience?

[Mote]

Alright, for lack of better wording the title came off a bit goofy! :megalol: But hey! No harm done.

 

So anyways, I saw DCS: Black Shark on sale in the Steam store a few days ago, and after reading the description and looking around a bit, it instantly grabbed my interest.

 

Now I haven't been all that much into simulation games, although I have been quite an avid gamer of MS Flight Simulator 2004 and X... although somehow I feel the experience I would get in Black Shark is more what I've been looking for, for such a long time ( 500+ manual? Should be enough of an in-depth experience for me ) :D Oh and obviously I always enjoy a quick online match of IL-2 from time to time ^^ Now that's not to say that I don't like in-depth games which require a lot of time, that's actually what I've really been looking for in a simulator game ( it's what they're there for after all ).

 

... way to make my question oh so much longer, anyways! This game seems to be so advanced that I'm actually doubting whenever or not I'll been able to enjoy the game only using my Logitech Freedom 2.4? :huh:

 

I looked around on the forums a bit and didn't seem to be able to find any answers that satisfied my actual question ( god I hope this won't be one of those embarrassing moments where someone will link to one of the stickied thread... I've done my best to find out, honest! :D ).

 

Thanks!

[Panzertard]

You do have Rudders & Collective on that joystick.

Thats a minimum for good enjoyment IMO.

 

I did try a regular stick with Rudder & Collective for DCS in the start - but I quickly realized that I wanted more, but thats personal. I then invested in a full set Rudders & HOTAS.

 

But I think you're having a good start - if you like DCS, and you have the money to invest later - then you can make your decision a bit later. ;)

[Mote]

Thanks for the quick reply! :)

 

On that note, if I wanted to eventually take it further... would something like the X-52 joystick give more enjoyment? Would it be worth the money to upgrade from the stick I have now? Or would I have to take it even futher :megalol:

[sobek]

Thanks for the quick reply! :)

 

On that note, if I wanted to eventually take it further... would something like the X-52 joystick give more enjoyment? Would it be worth the money to upgrade from the stick I have now? Or would I have to take it even futher :megalol:

 

Personally, before investing in a HOTAS controller i'd get a head tracking device, whether DIY or TrackIR is up to one's preference.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Yes. The X52 is a very good choise, however it doesn't have FFB. I have the X52 at the moment, and I'm very pleased with it (going to buy the tm warthog when it comes out though) I upgraded to the X52 from a similar logitech joystick. It made a huge difference. In my opinion, the X52 will give you more enjoyment. This is just my 2 cents though ;)

 

**--> see Sobek's post as well :)

[Panzertard]

I invested in a x52 Pro indeed, as well as the rudder pedals.

Being able to get away from the imprecise "twist rudders on a stick" was really helpful. I hate those twisting sticks ;)

FFB was no requirement for me.

 

But there might be more options that just a x52 Pro - I'm sure there are other people who have good things to tell about other products as well.

[Mote]

wow, such a supportive and responsive community :D

 

Thanks a lot for all the replies, very much appriciated!

 

Well, seems like I can go ahead an purchase DCS: Black Shark and get a good first start on it :thumbup:

 

More feedback is obviously always welcome, I'll value all oppinions on the matter.

[winz]

I'm using the same stick and imho it's a great stick for it's costs. If it is in good condition and you don't get spikes because of faulty potententiometers, then go for it. Using twist for rudder is a bit twitchy, but you'll get used to it.

 

Personally, before investing in a HOTAS controller i'd get a head tracking device, whether DIY or TrackIR is up to one's preference.

This is a very good advice and I would stick to it. A head tracking device will give you much more than moving from joystick to hotas. :)

[Mote]

I'm using the same stick and imho it's a great stick for it's costs. If it is in good condition and you don't get spikes because of faulty potententiometers, then go for it. Using twist for rudder is a bit twitchy, but you'll get used to it.

 

Alright, cool ^^ Sounds good then!

[Nate--IRL--]

TrackIR (4 or 5) is well worth considering also.

 

Nate

[Zenra]

...<snip>...

 

But I think you're having a good start - if you like DCS, and you have the money to invest later - then you can make your decision a bit later. ;)

I have to agree with what others have said here - I use a TM Cougar and am still tweeking the profile to get the button assignments optimized. You definitely need a rudder axis but it does not have to be pedals (although pedals will be much easier and more realistic, obviously).

 

Track IR (or equivalent) will become a must, particularly when you stop practicing and start with the missions and campaigns. There is a LOT to look at in Black Shark, in all directions, so you need all the help you can get there.

 

IMO, Eagle Dynamics should be getting sales comissions from Track IR, Saitek and the rest - I have already spent much more on hardware upgrades since buying Black Shark than I did on the program, which is easily the best US$39.99 value I've found in a long, long time.

[Avilator]

Here's another vote for a head tracking device. In my case, a TIR4. I also have a Saitek X-52 (non-pro).

[Mote]

Alright guys, should this game prove to fuel my interest even more, I'll definitely look into head tracking devices :)

[pitbull]

TIR4 is a must. That or free track. I used both, and if your goal is to plug and play , simple set up then go TIR4/5, for tight budget and/or lots of tweaking, swearing, swetaing and soldering, the free track is a good compromise.

 

You may also consider the G940. It took me nearly a month to figure out the best settings, but that I got it, it is a great piece of equipment. Trimming with a FFB is awesome.

 

I used a X52 for number of years and always served me well. Best bang for the buck IMO.

 

enjoy the sim!

 

pitbull

[Mote]

TIR4 is a must. That or free track. I used both, and if your goal is to plug and play , simple set up then go TIR4/5, for tight budget and/or lots of tweaking, swearing, swetaing and soldering, the free track is a good compromise.

 

Now even though I am a pretty technical person, looking into it free track definitely doesn't look, well... worth it in the long run :lol: I'd be willing to spend the extra bucks for TrackIR.

 

You may also consider the G940. It took me nearly a month to figure out the best settings, but that I got it, it is a great piece of equipment. Trimming with a FFB is awesome.

 

I used a X52 for number of years and always served me well. Best bang for the buck IMO.

 

Sounds good :) Thanks for the input.

 

Oh and just in case anyone will happen to read this, even those it's quite off-topic, I just watched the 1 hour startup procedure video tutorial and it had me, to say the least, quite amazed, even left me with a :huh:, haha. Anyways, since all you serious pilots out there will undoubtably follow the correct procedures before taking off, I was wondering if there actually is any chance of failure in the systems at all, which would be caught during the procedure? Or if all the detail is more or less there to satisfy the inner pilot :D

 

Also on that note, is there any chance of system failures, or more severe failues happening during flight? Or how many details there has actually went into damage overall, either due to uh.. external threats or just being unlucky!

[Nate--IRL--]

Now even though I am a pretty technical person, looking into it free track definitely doesn't look, well... worth it in the long run :lol: I'd be willing to spend the extra bucks for TrackIR.

 

 

 

Sounds good :) Thanks for the input.

 

Oh and just in case anyone will happen to read this, even those it's quite off-topic, I just watched the 1 hour startup procedure video tutorial and it had me, to say the least, quite amazed, even left me with a :huh:, haha. Anyways, since all you serious pilots out there will undoubtably follow the correct procedures before taking off, I was wondering if there actually is any chance of failure in the systems at all, which would be caught during the procedure? Or if all the detail is more or less there to satisfy the inner pilot :D

 

Also on that note, is there any chance of system failures, or more severe failues happening during flight? Or how many details there has actually went into damage overall, either due to uh.. external threats or just being unlucky!

 

The Hour Long Start up is not necessary, while you can do all the built in tests, you will not catch an error as they are not modelled in that way. However by incorrectly starting up you can damage your aircraft (e.g. forgetting the engine RPM limiters).

 

The mission designer can also add the random or definite chance of a particular system failing during the flight. Of course if you get hit, fly into something or even push the aircraft envelope too far, you will find our how glorious the damage model really is pretty quick.

 

Nate

[Yskonyn]

With all the people advertising a TrackIR it's hard not to get excited! ;)

But before you invest in that one, get your main controls sorted out first. There's no fun in trying to fly a helicopter sim with a crappy joystick, no rudder, but you can look around with your TrackIR so you at least can look at where you're going to crash without hassle!

 

IMHO If you want to seriously get involved with DCS there's no other option than to invest in some hardware in the end, BUT if you rather want to spend 50 bucks on the game first and get to know it before deciding wether you want to stay, instead of shelling out 100s of bucks on hardware and the game, then that only sounds logical to me. :)

 

So the bare minimum is a joystick and some form of rudder. I'd advise you to stay away from ruddertwist-sticks. They are far too sensitive.

Other hardware is adding to the experience, but not strictly neccessary.

 

Another good thing is that sim hardware is easily sellable on forums like these. So if you want to get rid of your rudder pedals, for example, if you decide not to go through then drop in here and you're bound to find someone who's willing to buy them off you.

 

But to be the devil's advocate: BS is a sim which has such a high fidelity that there's really no excuse for not flying it without a HOTAS and rudder pedals ... yes.. and the TrackIR! *grin*

[Mote]

The Hour Long Start up is not necessary, while you can do all the built in tests, you will not catch an error as they are not modelled in that way. However by incorrectly starting up you can damage your aircraft (e.g. forgetting the engine RPM limiters).

 

The mission designer can also add the random or definite chance of a particular system failing during the flight. Of course if you get hit, fly into something or even push the aircraft envelope too far, you will find our how glorious the damage model really is pretty quick.

 

Sounds good :) What I'm really looking for in a simulator is the idea that if have the knowledge and do even the most basic things correct, it'll award you, and if you don't, it'll more or less "punish" you. I don't think I've yet to find any simulator that TRULY goes through with this, which is a shame ( maybe DCS is it? :) ) In the end that's what a simulator should do anyways, as it is so rewarding when you finally do it all correctly :D

 

@Yskonyn:

 

Thanks for the advises, and yes, as you say, I'd really rather just start of purchasing the game and see whenever or not it can keep my interest, and if it really hits through, I'd be willing to shell out some $$$$ for better hardware :) I think this game will really make my decision on whenever or not more serious simulation gaming is actually me.

 

Actually I had already planned to purchasing HOTAS, pedals and then TrackIR should this turn out to be really enjoyable, as I'd also be able to use it in my other simulator games :)

[Woots]

Mote, not trying to stomp on your thread, just wanted to insert a quick question somewhat on topic . . .

 

As far as rudder pedals go, should I go Saitek or CH Products PRO?

[Eddie]

Well, I can't really comment on the CH pedals as I've never used them but those I know who have them have never had any complaints.

 

I use the Saitek pedals, and they are fine as pedals go. Perfectly adequate for the job and comfortable enough to use for extended periods. The rudder axis is sensitive enough to allow good control and doesn't have any spikes or need for a dead zone.

 

The only minor complaint I have is that the toe brake axes can be a bit difficult to use when flying an aircraft the has differential braking in that the angle of the pedals can make it a bit fiddly to keep both axes equal if not using full brakes. Not a show stopper, just takes a bit of practice.

 

As for reliability, I've had mine for about 4 years and have done in excess of 1000 hours of sim time with them and they still work as well as they did out of the box. You'd be perfectly happy using them and for the price they are very good value. But personally I'm planning on getting a set of Simped F-16 USB pedals after christmas, as they are by far the best pedals you can buy, although they are very expensive, prohibitively so for many people I'd guess.

[Zenra]

Mote, not trying to stomp on your thread, just wanted to insert a quick question somewhat on topic . . .

 

As far as rudder pedals go, should I go Saitek or CH Products PRO?

+1

 

I've been wondering the same thing and would appreciate the views of other Black Shark drivers, particularly if anybody has had an opportunity to try both.

 

Thanks!

[Yskonyn]

Well, I can't really comment on the CH pedals as I've never used them but those I know who have them have never had any complaints.

 

I use the Saitek pedals, and they are fine as pedals go. Perfectly adequate for the job and comfortable enough to use for extended periods. The rudder axis is sensitive enough to allow good control and doesn't have any spikes or need for a dead zone.

 

The only minor complaint I have is that the toe brake axes can be a bit difficult to use when flying an aircraft the has differential braking in that the angle of the pedals can make it a bit fiddly to keep both axes equal if not using full brakes. Not a show stopper, just takes a bit of practice.

 

As for reliability, I've had mine for about 4 years and have done in excess of 1000 hours of sim time with them and they still work as well as they did out of the box. You'd be perfectly happy using them and for the price they are very good value. But personally I'm planning on getting a set of Simped F-16 USB pedals after christmas, as they are by far the best pedals you can buy, although they are very expensive, prohibitively so for many people I'd guess.

 

Well the same can be said for the CH's. :) The toe-brake does not have any resistance so they feel a bit 'fiddly'.

But for the rest, the pedals do what they need to, without issues. And they are sturdy as well.

[Nate--IRL--]

I've only had the Saitek Pedals, but I can echo everything Eddie has said about them. The only reason I'd replace them personally is if I finally go for the Logitech G940 set, even then the Logitech pedals would have to be really good to beat the Saiteks

 

Nate

[Mote]

Mote, not trying to stomp on your thread, just wanted to insert a quick question somewhat on topic . . .

 

That's perfectly fine! Atleast this will add some collective information on equipment in one thread:) No need to start another one. Was a good question too, got a lot out of the answers myself, haha!

[talisman]

This is what will happen!

 

You will start playing the game - soon you will think "This is great - i really need rudders"

 

Then, later you will think "I wonder if a TIR would help"

 

Then - This is brilliant - i really need a few buttons and a collective and a cyclic and a couple of extra monitors and a ................

 

Its addictive and you will spend money. Im now on my 2nd version of my pit.