If you mastered DCS A-10C, could you hop into the real thing, run it up, and fly it?

[nscode]

That's what checklists are for. Plus, the AOA caret doesn't work with the gear up. And there's a gear horn.

 

Good luck with reading past the title if it was your first ever solo ;)

[Scabbers]

Blue I didnt blow it off, it popped a capacitor. SO I replaced the capcitor but the pilot was a dick. By the way did I add the part that he caused the cap to pop.... We dont have to deal with FAA in military Aviation. I have never ever blown off a gripe and not investigated or fixed the discrepancy to the fullest. A very good friend of mine, a hornet driver flew into a moutain at nellis because of a faulty mission computer. I would never ever want a pilot or crewmans death on my hands. Civil and military are way different bro.

[Tracer2k]

Don't mind if i take this off topic a little...say you're on a commercial flight when suddenly, an airhostess burst out from the cockpit screaming they're all dead, oh god, can any of you land this montrosity!?! Would you raise your hand or perhaps both hands while jumping up and down delirious with joy? :D

 

If i was in a learjet and absolutely no one would lift their hand.. we would be dead anyway, so what the heck why not :pilotfly: i have "mastered" (instruments, VFR, IFR etc) a learjet in M$ flightsim and with a proper guidance from the ground, i'd say there would be a 20% chance to get down alive :D

[nscode]

there was a mythbusters episode about that, actually :D

[mvsgas]

Haha, maybe ED could be convinced to do a DCS: Crew Chief module :D

I can actually help on that one, let me know

 

 

Those "gag' write-ups and corrective actions are cute on the internet, but I've never seen anything of the sort in real life.

 

The maintenance logbook (or the equivalent thereof) isn't something to be messed around with...at least not in the airline world. Would a mechanic really sign off potentially arcing wires and smoke in the cockpit as being flightworthy? I sure hope not.

 

The closest thing to a funny write-up I've seen in 12 years was something to the effect of:

 

Discrepancy: Aft lav toilet seat cracked.

 

Corrective Action: R/R aft lav ass-gasket IAW MM 25-40-11. Ops checked good.

 

The mechanic in question got suspended and we had to self-report the improper procedure to our FAA PMI (Principal Maintenance Inspector) to avoid an $11,000 fine.

 

I'd hate to be the victim of some SNCO's wrath after I blew off a write-up about smoke in the cockpit.

I have seen write up like that. Many pilots take full advantage of their collage education to write "FCR no workie" or "GE did not felt like GE, all indications normal". I have seen maintainers get in trouble if they write smart @$$ comments for corrective action.

 

All in all, if you had a maintenance crew, if you had all the gear. I say you could get the aircraft airborne, not sure if you could employ its weapons nor if you could fly safely. I showed the DCS A-10 start video to one of the crew chief that work on them and he said it was pretty accurate on the start, he did not know about the avionics of course, but in his opinion the engine start was pretty much spot on.

[BlueRidgeDx]

Blue I didnt blow it off, it popped a capacitor. I have never ever blown off a gripe and not investigated or fixed the discrepancy to the fullest.

 

I know you didn't really blow it off, my only point was that most internet stories (or lists) about "funny" writeups aren't actually true, because they only relate what a crewchief/mechanic/technician WANTED to say, not what he actually said.

 

We dont have to deal with FAA in military Aviation. Civil and military are way different bro.

 

Yeah, I'm keenly aware of the differences. I was just relating an anecdote that adds some levity to the mix.

 

I'll stop playing Buzz Killington, now. Promise. :pilotfly:

[plumber]

As a Licensed Airman I though I'd stop by to ask, does it even matter?

 

Of course it matters! If there's a Hog sitting there with it's cockpit open and nobody in there, I'm jumping in and going for a ride!

[hassata]

I flew sims before I ever even thought about (really) taking up flying as a hobby, and found that after you begin flying -- even in training Cherokees or Cessnas -- there is simply no turning back to simulators as anything other than a game.

 

FSX is definitely decent for IFR practice as well as getting a taste of an airport you've never been to.

[Avilator]

Good luck with reading past the title if it was your first ever solo ;)

TBH, I don't think I would be that nervous. I'd probably be like, OK, here we go again....:pilotfly:

I was also thinking, I'd probably take the plane up to angles 13 or 15 and do coordination rolls and fly it near stall speed to get a feel for the handling before attempting a landing.

[Rhen]

On Topic:

 

Flying just isn't just flying around in a sterile simulated world. There's weather phenomena (crosswinds, downdrafts, turbulence, windshear, TSTMS, etc.), there's other aircraft, there's rules of flight that aircraft and air traffic controllers expect you to observe. Then there's the aircraft itself. If it's working the way it was designed, then you have a chance. If you pick the aircraft with a hydraulic, electric, fuel, oxygen, engine, or structural malfunction, you're REALLY in for a treat! :megalol: Finally, you have to deal with yourself:

 

There i was! Adrenaline pumping, taking off the flags and walking around my nice hog, climbing up the ladder, there's even a nice crew chief to help you stow the ladder! Can you still think through all the things you need to do JUST to start the engines and get the avionics up and running, all the time knowing you're about to risk your own life along with the lives of the ground crew helping you "joyride" in a military aircraft, as well as any poor schmuck in your fightpath? You have to deal with all these things to successfully fly any aircraft, let alone a jet powered one.

 

Let's take a simple sortie of just starting the engines, going out to the runway, taking off, going around the pattern, and landing. Using a simulator designed for entertainment purposes may allow you to start the engines (unless you sucked your checklist or piece of equipment into an engine during start, or ended up with a hot, hung, false start, or had an emergency along with your start), and possibly taxi out to the runway (some of you would ground loop the aircraft or tip it on a wing or possibly structurally damage the aircraft simply by taxiing out to the runway :music_whistling:). Some of you would run off the side of the runway while attempting to accelerate to rotation speed. Others would stall and crash once rotating to liftoff. Still others who NEVER fly with any kind of wind on their PC simulator of choice would never be able to fly a ground track, which is essential to line up with the runway. Others would lose too much altitude in turns just trying to get back to the runway. Others may get disorientated and lost just trying to fly around the pattern. Then there's the people who have pulled no more than the Gs required to go up in an elevator who would feel disorientated just from the "feel" of flying. Still more would stall and crash on approach. Others would oscillate and land on an unprepared surface with similarly spectacular results. Others would oscillate vertically in the flare and stall and crash. Others would land too hard and structurally damage the aircraft - at best.

 

However, a few, who kept their head, planned the flight, knew enough to remove FOD from the aircraft (flags/pins), studied the pattern, practiced, knew what to expect, and how to deal with basic weather conditions - even on a clear day - weather's still present! - had someone to help guide them (a pilot or controller on the ground), perhaps they might be able to successfully fly and come through the experience unscathed.

 

OFF TOPIC....

 

We dont have to deal with FAA in military Aviation.

 

Yes we do. What do you think happens when we leave military airspace? We deal with the FAA and are subject to getting violated (not what you think :megalol:), or in violation of FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations).

 

AFI 11-202v3 para 1.1.2 states:

 

This AFI is a common source of flight directives that include:

Air Force-specific guidance.

Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs).

International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Standards and Recommended Practices

(SARPs).

This AFI provides necessarily broad guidance and cannot address every conceivable circumstance. PICs are expected to use their best judgment to ensure the safe conduct of the flight.

 

(Bold is my emphasis)

 

Whether we fly in the US or other countries airspace - as long as it's controlled by a civil aviation authority, we are still subject to civil aviation regulations.

 

As an anecdote, my flight commander decided to forgo the pilot bonus and leave the military for the airlines. He failed to run a check of his FAA issued flying license. (Yes, many of us who fly in the military also have a civilian license). He had a violation incurred when he was flying in airspace near Qatar. The controller asked for his name and he was not using his cranium and gave it out. The civil authority there filed a violation of their civil rules and it got to the FAA. Consequently, he couldn't find employment when he left. Last thing I heard, he was trying to get back into the military.

 

A very good friend of mine, a hornet driver flew into a moutain at nellis because of a faulty mission computer. I would never ever want a pilot or crewmans death on my hands. Civil and military are way different bro.

 

Something similar happened to a guy stationed at Osan, AB ROK. He was vectored into a mountain by the controller. Again, we turn to AFI 11-202v3 para. 1.1.1:

 

Pilot in Command Authority. The Pilot in Command (PIC) is responsible for, and is the final authority as to the operation of the aircraft.

 

We, as pilots are still responsible for the safe and mission effective conduct of the sortie. It's our responsibility, in this instance, to tell the controller to politely go F00K him/herself. We should do a sanity check of any order we're given, whether from a controller, or otherwise. The controller gives you an order, it's still up to you, as PIC to know whether you ca comply. Those of us who sign the AFTO 781 after a flight as FP, or MP should be able to know the difference.

[airea]

Only Chuck Norris can fly a real a-10 after mastering DCS-A10C...

Jack Bauer can do it without mastering DCS-A10C...

[Scabbers]

@Avil - Make sure you set the CB for the OBOGS unit so that you can breath at those altitudes. Air starts to get rather thin.

 

@Rhen - that comment was on the maintenance side not the flight side.

[GGM]

@airea - Chuck Norris doesn't even need an A-10 to fly it :)

[Scabbers]

The wingman flys all upside down and backwards

[Avilator]

@Avil - Make sure you set the CB for the OBOGS unit so that you can breath at those altitudes. Air starts to get rather thin.

 

That's right, I forgot about that. It would be in the checklist anyway.:book:

[Scabbers]

BTW the mask is issued in flgiht clothing when you suit up. they are not left in the aircraft anymore.

[diveplane]

I like how they chalked the tire. and look at the gun comming apart.

 

looks like the gun to a slam on the ground when the gear failed, or a heavy landing,.. load was to much to bare on the gears.

[Bwaze]

Nope, Pave Penny is still intact. I would guess it just came apart from the shock when plane landed with it's gears up, high AOA, touched the ground with the tail and smacked down hard on main wheels (which are still below fuselage even when retracted).

[Boneski]

What about TMIMITW(The Most Interesting Man In The World)??

 

On his web site he clearly states he routinely pulls 9 G's while trimming his beard.

Chuck can't do that!!! The only other guy that may be able to pull it off is Old Spice!

:pilotfly:

 

This means both of these men could fly an A-10 without study or training... and when they fly commercial... they are free to walk around the cabin when taking off and landing...

 

Only Chuck Norris can fly a real a-10 after mastering DCS-A10C...

Jack Bauer can do it without mastering DCS-A10C...

[BlueRidgeDx]

Nope, Pave Penny is still intact. I would guess it just came apart from the shock when plane landed with it's gears up, high AOA, touched the ground with the tail and smacked down hard on main wheels (which are still below fuselage even when retracted).

 

I'm pretty sure that a live-fire malfunction of the gun system during a Green Flag sortie preceeded the gear-up landing.

[Avilator]

I'm pretty sure that a live-fire malfunction of the gun system during a Green Flag sortie preceeded the gear-up landing.

 

That seems a little more plausible. The gun may have sustained the damage while airborne. Looking at the hydraulic system layout, it seems unlikely that a single failure in either system would cause the gear failure. The gun is driven by both systems, and the gear can be actuated by both systems as well. Maybe there was physical damage that caused leaks downstream of the accumulators?

[Deadman]

There is no mention of the cause in the press release may be some one can find the accident report for a complete explanation o end the speculation.

 

http://www.edwards.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123091878

 

@Bwaze approach for an all gear up landing is at 2 deg a normal airspeed as per 1CL-1

[sinelnic]

Chuck Norris has no need to master anything to be able to fly the Hog whenever he feels like. He will get up in the morning or whenever he feels like and be picked up by the Base Commander in a Limo, driven by the pilot of the Hog Chuck has decided to try.

After humbling the Commander with HIS wartime stories, he will arrive to the base where the ground crew will pick him up and carry him on their shoulders until comfortably seated on the cockpit. He will be served hot coffe there, by the youngest daughter of the Chief Mechanic, while his plane is readied for him.

It will take him the slightest of nods to get the engines to start themselves, and a stare will suffice to have the Hog taxi to the runway. Only at this moment He will get a grip of the controls, and holding them firmly he will whisper "Don´t. Spill my coffe.". He will then release the stick and the Hog will take off, perform never before seen aerobatics, reach Mach 4 at 5 mts AGL, find Osama and bring him to public trial, and land.

He will leave the base on foot, carrying the GAU-8 on his shoulders, since it, as he appreciated, would look nice hanging over the fireplace.

 

Jack Bauer wanted to participate in all this but got stuck in traffic. Maybe next time.

[power5]

@Rhen

I was not aware of just how unrealistic the flight modeling was in the sim. Amazing that they could bill this as a military grade simulator and be so far off on how the aircraft would react in real flight. I have been in many commercial airlines and when they take off and bank for landings sometimes they pull harder than normal. not sure what that is in G forces, but at least 2g would be my guess. Now I know that is no where near A10 limits, but the feeling of flight is there and most have experienced this. Does the A10 have AP? If so, nail the throttle and get off the ground and hit the button. :) I have not flown a jet before, but I understand g forces. Pretty sure I can figure out what will happen when I push the stick left and pull back. Or when I move the throttle levers forward.

[GGTharos]

You are not using the getting grade simulator, nor was the DTS intended to super-accurate simulate flight. They have other sims for that.

 

Rhen have access to DCS: A-10C. He's just telling you how you'll fail if you think a flight sim is going to show you how to fly a real aircraft.

It'll give you the gist of it, but it cannot simulate everything ... in short, if you don't want to die? Get real instruction, period. It doesn't matter /which/ simulator you use - you could use the pro full motion sims and personally I don't think any intructor would let you anywhere NEAR the controls of a real aircraft if they knew you were thinking you could do it all.

Even the ground roll is probably surprising for most people, especially with the A-10's off-center nose gear ... ever done a rudder-dance before? No? You might well run yourself off the runway in DCS: A-10C as well, though I'd expect it to be even easier to run yourself off in the real deal ;)

 

As long as someone gets the plane up in the air for you, you're good. If you try to take it up un-practiced, with just flight sim experience, you might well be hosed unless you are VERY methodical, VERY calm, you anticipate everything, AND a natural.

Edited August 31, 2010 by GGTharos