Air Refueling help

[Zeke]

After a few days of constantly trying to get this down, it's been very, very frustrating with each successive failure.

 

I can get it hooked up, but staying on the boom is another story all together, either to much or too little speed, or to much movement from side to side.

 

I've changed my joystick settings to get them where I can handle the bird ok, but it seems like no matter what I do the trimming part is a little off, once I get it trimmed well, the change of speed messes that up.

 

So, I guess what I'm asking is for some help on the finer points on air refueling. What are the reference points. I've watched a ton of vids on you tube, searched and read whatever I could find on this forum, and read what is in the manual. I have a Cougar HOTAS and am using Viper's profile for it.

 

HELP!

[MTFDarkEagle]

Practice Practice Practice.

 

I know your frustration, I've been there.

 

What helped me, is setting a (very for me) small deadzon on the Y-axis of the main stick, and set the tanker speed at 200kt.

[Zeke]

How do you set the tanker speed? In the ME? If so, how do you control that in a mission you can't edit. Thanks for your help!

[MTFDarkEagle]

Yes: in the mission editor.

 

I wouldn't know how to control that in a mission you can't edit :P

[GGTharos]

Make sure you are looking at the TANKER, not the boom when trying to stay hooked up. Only look at the boom to ensure you are within limits, but fly precise formation with the TANKER, not the boom. Flying formation with the boom while hooked up will definitely end in frustration.

 

After a few days of constantly trying to get this down, it's been very, very frustrating with each successive failure.

 

I can get it hooked up, but staying on the boom is another story all together, either to much or too little speed, or to much movement from side to side.

 

I've changed my joystick settings to get them where I can handle the bird ok, but it seems like no matter what I do the trimming part is a little off, once I get it trimmed well, the change of speed messes that up.

 

So, I guess what I'm asking is for some help on the finer points on air refueling. What are the reference points. I've watched a ton of vids on you tube, searched and read whatever I could find on this forum, and read what is in the manual. I have a Cougar HOTAS and am using Viper's profile for it.

 

HELP!

[sobek]

Make sure you are looking at the TANKER, not the boom when trying to stay hooked up. Only look at the boom to ensure you are within limits, but fly precise formation with the TANKER, not the boom. Flying formation with the boom while hooked up will definitely end in frustration.

 

What he said and then some.

 

Try to memorize what the tanker looks like through your windshield when you are positioned well in the refueling box. Use that picture in your mind as sort of reference. The boom color will then tell you your z-axis orientation inside the box.

 

DO NOT FIXATE THE BOOM. This will lead to you inducing oscillation.

[Nu-NRG]

DO NOT FIXATE THE BOOM. This will lead to you inducing oscillation.

I think i have this problem :P

[delta9856]

Also make sure you have trimmed the aircraft before you even try to connect. And like GGTharos said, focus on the tanker and not the boom. It takes a lot of practise but eventually you will get it. Good luck :thumbup:

[ecoli360]

I just really can't belive that the boom operator in tanker can't help out a bit. In the manuel page 489 it says: "Once established in the contact position, the boom operator will "fly" the boom into the receptacle."

[PlainSight]

Setup your pitch and roll axis curvature to 40 and try again.

[Zeke]

Thanks for the advice, set my deadzone on the Y Axis to 4 from 7 and left the curve at 30, deadzone on the X is 7 still. Concentrated on the tanker this time and had my best one yet, although it still ended up in a disconnect, but it looked great to me, don't know what happened.

 

I looked, and looked but I can't find a way to bind the air refueling cover to a keyboard key or keys. Since we have to close and open this which each disconnect it sure would be great to be able to bind this to a key. If real life the pilot could just reach over and close it (although in real life he wouldn't have to). I hate taking my hand off the stick to use the mouse for this. Waste of time.

 

Getting there little by little. One thing I found is that by doing this a lot, my normal flying skills have increased also, it is much easier to hold a pattern in flight.

[GGTharos]

You don't have to close and open the door. You just need to reset the system with the nosewheel steering button. It is VERY important to read p 80-90 where the HOTAS button functions are described in the manual, EVEN if you do not have a TM Warthog.

 

I looked, and looked but I can't find a way to bind the air refueling cover to a keyboard key or keys. Since we have to close and open this which each disconnect it sure would be great to be able to bind this to a key. If real life the pilot could just reach over and close it (although in real life he wouldn't have to). I hate taking my hand off the stick to use the mouse for this. Waste of time.

 

Getting there little by little. One thing I found is that by doing this a lot, my normal flying skills have increased also, it is much easier to hold a pattern in flight.

[Zeke]

Well, I have to admit that even after reading that part (of which I printed out before and read through), I don't know how one would think that they would have to hit the NWS button.

 

I was going by what a debrief in one of the refueling missions I have says to do, it said to open and close the door, and that is the only thing that worked before. I'll give the NWS button a shot, hope that works out, sure would be easy enough.

 

Thanks!

[cichlidfan]

Well, I have to admit that even after reading that part (of which I printed out before and read through), I don't know how one would think that they would have to hit the NWS button.

Thanks!

 

pg 86 at the top...though I would not call it obvious but 'AR Disconnect' under In Air (AR is Aerial Refueling).

 

and pg 490 at the top

 

4. For successive contacts, you must cycle the aerial refuel system by pressing the refuel/reset button (Nosewheel Steering button) or closing and opening the slipway door.

Disconnect

1. When the tanks are full, line pressure will automatically disconnect refueling. When this happens, the DISCONNECT light will illuminate. To manually disconnect, you can also press the nosewheel steering button on the control stick.

Edited April 17, 2011 by cichlidfan

[bluepilot76]

Good info about the NWS button. I admit I didnt read the manual enough but part of the fun for me is just getting stuck in and seeing how I get on. However I did manage to map a key to the refueling lever, but NWS button is going to be easier.

 

I have been trying AR for the last couple of flights and feel I am getting a system together that works for me:

 

Stabilise about 20-30 feet behind the refueling position. Get the Hog so well trimmed that it is flying along almost hands off. Memorise the sound of the engines at the setting that exactly matches the speed of the tanker. Are you trimmed? Sure? Doubly sure? OK. Throughout the rest of the procedure you wont need to trim again because you know your trim setting works at the throttle / speed setting that you need to maintain station (although I suppose you might need to if your taking on a lot of fuel..). OK for the move in. I have been doing it this like this:

Give a dab more power then almost immediately return the throttles to the previous setting. Get a feeling for how much further forward that dab of power got you -and what your speed went up to, if the tanker is going 238, I dont want to go over 240, but I only want to be at that 240 for a moment before the speed settles back to 238. Get a feel for how long it took for the speed to reduce again to your previous speed. Then do it again and again untill you are right there. With practice, your final dab of power should move you the last few feet to the connection, and your well adjusted reduction to the old throttle setting has seen your speed reduce to the tanker speed all at the same time. The mission I have been flying, the tanker has been trotting along at 238 kts. closing at 241 seems to be too fast.

 

Well thats working for me. I havent done anything with axis curves, but I do have a nice new joystick which is soooo much nicer than my previous one. It is a thrustmaster 1600m (or something like that not to hand so cant check). I think it has the same tech inside as the warthog one, but only cost 39ukp.

 

BTW someone mentioned getting disconnected when all seems to be within limits. I think this happens when your full up.

 

Keep on tankin'

[Zeke]

Finally, heard those sweat words: "Transfer Complete"!

 

Wasn't the very pretty but after 3 hook ups I filled her up from almost no gas to full. I spent the last couple of months practicing this off and on, but over the last week I really zeroed in on it.

 

For all those having problems, keep practicing and then practice some more it is possible.

[Talon-X-]

Finally, heard those sweat words: "Transfer Complete"!

 

Wasn't the very pretty but after 3 hook ups I filled her up from almost no gas to full. I spent the last couple of months practicing this off and on, but over the last week I really zeroed in on it.

 

For all those having problems, keep practicing and then practice some more it is possible.

 

I agree. Keep practicing. I've spent a couple of hours each day for the last week and a half trying to refuel. It is VERY frustating. At first I couldn't even get connected. Then, I could connect, but only for a few seconds. Today I managed to get a full tank for the first time. It took me about 7 or 8 hook ups but I finally did it!:cheer3nc: I was able to stay connected for longer periods of time too. Like I said...KEEP PRACTICING

[LostOblivion]

Good to hear you got it right. An observation I did that made me do it a lot better is that I try watching the tanker at all times, and then just noticing the extension of the boom/colours with my peripheral vision.

[maiochine]

hey guys I have been looking around the whole internet and I could'nt find an answer for my question.

 

I need to assign a command via my HOTAS to the Refueling Door Slipway Lever that way I dont have to look down and use my mouse to move it.

 

WHAT IS THE COMMAND NAME IN THE A-10C CONTROLS MENU ?

 

Please let me know.

 

Many thanks

 

Maio

[JujuMan]

hey guys I have been looking around the whole internet and I could'nt find an answer for my question.

 

I need to assign a command via my HOTAS to the Refueling Door Slipway Lever that way I dont have to look down and use my mouse to move it.

 

WHAT IS THE COMMAND NAME IN THE A-10C CONTROLS MENU ?

 

Please let me know.

 

Many thanks

 

Maio

 

'Air Refuel Control'

[maiochine]

RESOLVED:

 

The key command is: Air refuel control

 

something I would never have thought :P

[maiochine]

'Air Refuel Control'

 

hhaahah thanks man I saw your reply after :P

 

cheers

[MemphisBelle]

I´ve got an X-52pro and I cant get it properly trimmed. it always trimms a little bit too much or to less (anyways hoe carefully I set the trimmer) which makes me decreasing or increasing Altitude just a little, but that is still enough to not get aligned with the tanker. Is there a possibility to adjust the trimmer as well?

[Steel Jaw]

I can refuel in the FBMS F16 fine after much practise.

 

Im sure I could learn it in the Hawg as well BUT: it rarely needs refueling in theater AND when (if) the DCS Fast Mover comes out I will have relearn it.

 

Thus, debating whether it is worth my time learning.

[PFunk1606688187]

I´ve got an X-52pro and I cant get it properly trimmed. it always trimms a little bit too much or to less (anyways hoe carefully I set the trimmer) which makes me decreasing or increasing Altitude just a little, but that is still enough to not get aligned with the tanker. Is there a possibility to adjust the trimmer as well?

 

I've noticed this as well. Trim seems to be very hard to get exact, and I'm not sure if its because thats the way it works in the A-10 and you're just supposed to use minimal stick input to hold it a fraction off its new centre (since this would be easy on a long throw stick) or if its a result of the game engine being twitchy on the input or if its just the stick or some combination.

 

What I have determined from my own research and practice is that in many respects Air to Air refueling is very much harder in this game than it has to be in real life. Certainly its hard, and people mostly when you say its too hard just tell you to practice more, but there are certain factors that just make this harder than real life.

 

Fact is that for one the boom in this sim has no physics to it it seems. The thing exerts zero physical effect on your aircraft when you're hooked on to it despite the fact that what I"ve read says its quite the opposite in real life. For instance the boom should have a small ability to "drag" or "pull" your aircraft along so that a minute difference in air speed/thrust would be easily mitigated. I've read stories about damaged aircraft being "towed" by tankers til they're in a position to descend to base, and if you doubt me check this out and read who won for 1983: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackay_Trophy.

 

That alone makes trouble for people who've mastered more or less forming on a tanker but who suffer from the ails of constantly having to compensate for differences in relative speed to the tanker. I've managed to stay joined one time for the whole refueling process, but its pretty tough with a fairly lame stick like an X-52 to do that.

 

One thing I think I'm going to try is using a keystroke for trim to see if I can just feather it as little as possible. IL-2 it was pretty easy to do this, with trim on a button you just press the button and get an extremely fine amount of trim, whereas so far I've found the A-10 trim to be extremely difficult to put into the pocket. Its so much easier to stay on with the aircraft perfectly trimmed for the horizon since you're basically only adjusting throttle at that point, and the fact is that the things that go wrong or need to be corrected are way more complicated and become more complicated when your adjustments start to enter 3 planes.

 

As for the issue of staying on the boom, like I said its actually harder than in real life in some ways, but its still necessary to be a whiz with managing your throttles. Learning to AAR you appreciate how to guess and fine tune throttle adjustments. If you see yourself starting to move backwards ever so slowly you need to compensate with an increase in thrust, but measure it against the knowledge that it won't take effect for a few seconds and then have to account for the fact that too much increase can cause you to start to close too much with the tanker. It really is a fun mental game.

 

However, I've seen a video where an A-10 pilot joined with a tanker, took on a whole fuel load, and the whole time he's just chatting like its a party to the tanker crew like he doesn't even have to think about it. Its possible he's just that good and can do the hardest most dangerous Air Force procedure while casually chatting, or its just maybe kind of easier to stay on the boom once you lock on. Dunno, I don't think I've ever read anybody who's actually done it comment on DCS so who knows.