Air Refueling - Any tips?

[Fakum]

I think I havnt seen the boom lift because im to low??,,, and most of the time I am using the tip as the aim point and im driving the hog into it just below the glass,, I see now how that might be a problem,, looks like I have more work to do on the approach,,, the other factor is the throttle control,,, I have to get the curve set better so I can get the fine tune resolved.

[FreeFall]

I think I havnt seen the boom lift because im to low??

 

Makes sense. You haven't seen the boom lift because you haven't seen the boom. :lol:

[Fakum]

not exactly,, I see the whole boom when im making the approach,, but I remain fixated on the tip,,, it seems that the boom by default drags at its low point,, so if I chase the tip to my windscreen,,, it will always stay low,, at least thats my initial thought,,,

[FreeFall]

I'm pretty sure that after adjusting your approach altitude your refueling will be a success story.

[Fakum]

Fingers crossed,,,,

[Fakum]

[ATTACH]59577[/ATTACH]

 

WOW,,,, Well,, much better tonight! Since I was still struggling a bit with the throttle,, I decided to run the curves out furthur than I would have expected to,, I was running curves for X & Y between say 10 to 30,,, throttle experimenting all over the place with linear- non- linear etc,,,, I bumped them ALL up to 55 - 60,,,, so far,,, MUCH better for me! My approaches I have made a bit higher,,, still struggled a bit but I got about 6 hookups tonight. I took a screen shot from the F2 view to show that I was sitting right on the boom but it still wouldnt hook up,,, I was pretty sure I did the print screen from that view but thats not what I have here showing? Anyway,,, I was sitting in the sweet spot stil many times without a hook up and kept looking from external view to see where I really was,, and pretty much every time, I was only about 6" to a foot off of the recepticle with steady flight,,, it should have guided in in my opinion,,, dang boom tip was resting right on the recepticle area for more than 5 seconds at a wack!,,, anyway,, heres a pic of me with the boom on the hog,, but no hook up,,,, this one is a little in the red zone but most of them were in the yellow or green. I will continue,,, thanks for the guidence,,, this has been the most frustrating aspect of the sim for me thus far

[Steel Jaw]

The problem I have with adjusting curves is that I probably dont want thise settings for regular flight, so if I adjust them like you guys Im stuck with those settings all the time.

[Fakum]

I understand your point,, I had the same concern,,, now that I seem to have the curves where I want them for refueling or say formation flying,,, I have to go make some weapons runs to see if I am ok with the flight controls myself,,,,

[Dejjvid]

If you don't hook up, just go a little lower and try again. If it's still not working go abit higher again. You'll soon learn to 'feel' the correct position. You should be able to see the whole belly of the tanker.

 

Remember that the curves doesn't remove any control input, they just make the center area less sensitive. If you need to roll/pitch faster, just move your joystick further away from center.

 

I had my X52 around 45ish. And my TM Warthog is 32ish. It's just a matter of what feels best for you. I have no curves on the throttle, i want it the be direct and crisp. If i want to increase speed with lets say 1 knot, i just nudge them up, and nudge back again after 1 sec. I'm talking small nudges here.

[Kula66]

One of the few videos I've found from the cockpit of the receiver - about 24mins in:

 

 

Interestingly, the boom doesn't swing out of the way as you approach AND the rate of closure seems quite fast compared with DCS.

[Fakum]

Yeah,,,, i cant close in at that rate,,,, then again,,, im not very good at this either,,, cool vid,, thanks

[WildBillKelsoe]

did you play MW3 today? I think I played with you on PS3.

[Fakum]

not me,,, I dont do console,, just PC games

[ncimike3]

i worked on it for weeks and finally was able to fuel the whole aircraft on one attempt. A couple things that helped me. First and most important is to keep the the part of the fuel boom where the colored fuel stick exits in the upper window section as shown in the attached picture. I've put 2 reds lines that form a "V" overlayed on the picture to show you. When I approach I don't even look at the HUD, I only look at that upper window highlighted in yellow. I keep that "V" centered and at the top of that window.

 

The Next thing I did that really helped me is having slightly more power than I need and then when the I start creeping in too close, feather just momentarily and slightly the airbrake. Just a quick open and close. No need adjusting the power at all. Using the throttle has a delay but the airbrake is immediate response. A modified a mission just for air refueling. It starts you out in the air with very little fuel, directly behind the tanker. Radio is already tuned in to the tanker. I've also attached a .trk file to view how I use the air brake. Not sure if it is the "approved method" or not but it worked for me.

 

Lastly, make sure after every failed attempt/disconnect, you reset your fuel door, otherwise the tanker will not rehook up with you.

AIR REFUEL PRACTICE.miz

Edited December 2, 2011 by ncimike3

[Fakum]

Excellent points,, I actually took some screen shots of the youtube video, and printed them up to show how that boom appears in the upper window and used it for a guide myself,,,, im becomming much more successfull! I am struugling a tad with throttle, and you make an appealing suggestion with the air brake modulation,, in the past efforts,, I actually had them open steady a bit to add some drag,, but will try your method,,,, thanks for the file as well,,,,will try it out

[Mule]

Thx nciMike3 gonna give all that a go tonight.

[Torment]

After MUCH practice (52 is what it shows in the logbook lol), I can stay on the boom the whole time through the straights...but when the tanker starts his turn about 75% of the time I'll disconnect once. That percentage is slooowly starting to decrease and not nearly as fast as the straight-a-ways. So that one is going to take me a while to get down pat.

 

But the absolute toughest thing for me is holding formation with the tanker while in a turn. This I downright suck at. I won't slam into the wingman while he's getting gas or anything like that but I wobble all over the place and can't keep a good distance off the tanker's wing...or match his speed. :joystick:

[Steel Jaw]

Who decided to put the receptacle on the nose????

 

Freaks me out,man. That big boom coming for my nose.

 

Easier in Falcon with the receptacle behind you. Mind you, easier in the F16 anyhow with its fly by wire.

 

Still working on it in the Hawg.

 

Mind you, I will master it just in time to have to learn the basket method with the coming DCS F18. ;)

[GGTharos]

Basket method wouldn't change the skills you need to stay with it.

[sobek]

Who decided to put the receptacle on the nose????

 

Freaks me out,man. That big boom coming for my nose.

 

Easier in Falcon with the receptacle behind you. Mind you, easier in the F16 anyhow with its fly by wire.

 

Mower, make no mistake, although in BMS it is the most realistic depiction of any F4 incarnation, the flight model still changes (less than in other versions, but still) the instant you connect with the boom (Mav-JP actually confirmed that). It was made to be easier. In DCS you don't have ANY of these "shenanigans".

Edited December 2, 2011 by sobek

[sobek]

Basket method wouldn't change the skills you need to stay with it.

 

I don't know, i feel like it might be easier to get information about the box you should be in (from looking at the hose) than in the A-10, where you don't even see the lights on the tanker belly.

[Steel Jaw]

Now I grant you, Sobek, that in FBMS, the boom kinda pulls you along once connected. ;)

[bluepilot76]

[ATTACH]59577[/ATTACH]

 

I was only about 6" to a foot off of the recepticle with steady flight,,, it should have guided in in my opinion,,, dang boom tip was resting right on the recepticle area for more than 5 seconds at a wack!,,, anyway,, heres a pic of me with the boom on the hog,, but no hook up,,,, this one is a little in the red zone but most of them were in the yellow or green. I will continue,,, thanks for the guidence,,, this has been the most frustrating aspect of the sim for me thus far

 

Hey Fakum,

That looks too high to me. I had problems like that, it seems easier if you are higher because it is easier to see the picture straight out the front - not having to look up so much. But the hookups if they come at all are likely not to be successful (connected but no fuel). Try a metre or 2 lower. You will need to be further forward as well so that the boom can still reach you. Give it a go.

[bluepilot76]

P.S.

If you look at ncimike3 's excellent picture, you will see much more of the belly of the tanker. That is because he is lower. I think I fly it even lower than that.

 

In RL there would be badd dirty air up that high behind the tanker so the boom is designed to come down at a steeper angle into the clean air. As a result the boom receptacle is probably only designed to work at that steep angle.

 

Through excellent flying it sounds like you are flying your receptacle right up to the boom, however the angle is wrong. If you are lower the boom operator will actually move it in the last few inches. You do not need to fly it all the way onto the boom.

[Torment]

I often lose my temper when my wingman doesn't even move while he's on the boom. :P