MP Difficulty: EASY, MEDIUM, HARD, REAL

[Panzertard]

Hello gents.

This is an attempt to come to an agreement within the MP community regarding standard-difficulty for MP servers & missions.

I think we need to come up with some terms we can agree on regarding difficulty - and make it easer for both old and new members to find a server they wish to fly on.

 

Lets discuss

Server settings:

- Perhaps we need to state if we intend to use 'hard', 'real', 'med', 'easy' or something similar in the name?

- Some mission may of course use other settings. The settings should be visible in the TOP lines of the BRIEF (visible within the MP browser).

 

Mission settings:

- Mission designers should set their options according to, or near standard.

- Mission designers must state difficulty in the TOP lines of the BRIEF (visible within the MP browser).

I've come up with a sample draft below, let's discuss these.

 

EDIT. Images & draft removed - too complicated.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Panzertard

[Panzertard]

Terminology:

Enforced: Option is Enforced in mission, either ON or OFF.

OFF: The options is ENFORCED to OFF in the Mission or Server.

Optional: Option is not enforced in mission, MP Client settings (Options Gameplay) will decide which settings that are used.

 

The difference between 'Server Enforced settings' and 'Mission Enforced settings'

(NOTE: Bugs may affect the system, we will redraft the FACTS if we find a new behaviour)

 

Basicly, the facts should be:

- all settings are inherited from a Mission.

- any Mission-options that have been enabled, enforced on or off will prevail.

- if no options are enforced in the mission, the settings from the DCS Options on the PC YOU SAVED THE MISSION should prevail.

This needs to be checked - there's been a few bugs here previously.

- if no options are enforced in the mission, and on the SERVER options you set 'Use these settings for all mission', these settings should prevail.

This needs to be checked - there's been a few bugs here previously.

 

So to make sure you get the settings you require, you should enforce (on or off) them within the Mission Options.

Please assist us in defining the behaviour for these options - whenever you see a mismatch, give us a heads up.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Panzertard

[Panzertard]

Let's discuss! Beware of the old grunts.

Good idea? Bad idea? Medium settings sucks!?

 

PS, stay on topic - if you want to debate the other issues regarding MP, go find the other threads in this forum. I may remove OT without further notice. ;)

[Cibit]

Nice work:)

Hard looks the best bet for me. I do so love those F2 views:thumbup:

[Schnarre Aggro]

Nice work:)

Hard looks the best bet for me. I do so love those F2 views:thumbup:

 

+1

i do love the external views as well ... you play ....get shot down .... and u still can enjoy the flight :thumbup:

 

and if u have a flight under "real condition" - it is a desicion of honor not use the externals :smartass:

[Ranger79]

Looks good, but the f2 views are golden for online footage recording.

[Panzertard]

I do love to sit and watch too :)

Ok, so Externals (Enforced ON) should be allowed in most cases?

 

Perhaps it's no big deal if people can use F7 and look at remaining targets?

[VMFA117_Poko]

I do love to sit and watch too :)

Ok, so Externals (Enforced ON) should be allowed in most cases?

 

Perhaps it's no big deal if people can use F7 and look at remaining targets?

A wish: Add possibility to lock F7 view :D

[KillarZ]

They should make in the settings external veiw for friendly aircraft only{on/off} and spectator external veiws {on/off}

[FLANKERATOR]

I remember a tool called LOTU or something like that in older FC versions, enabling external views, labels and everything but afterwards! I don't know if that works for a FC2 track...but am not a fan of LIVE external views online for sure.

[159th_Viper]

...but am not a fan of LIVE external views online for sure.

 

+1.

 

Real = Externals off. Tracks can always be unlocked.

[MadTommy]

There does not seem to be any real difference Hard & Real from my point of view, unless I'm missing something.

 

Map options, seeing allies only on or off, seems irrelevant considering the capabilities of the of the datalink & TAD.

 

External views, well considering 99% of missions are coop and I assume most like me use it rarely just to get some eye candy, I can't see how it is important or changes the difficulty of a mission. But if some like it enforced, fair enough. If people want to use F7 not find targets, well their loss i suppose, doesn't affect my game or enjoyment.

 

Personally i don't like to lock any options in my missions or server.. if someone wants to use labels or some other aid that's up to them. it does not deter from my enjoyment in any way. I play Real/Hard, DCS is like golf for me.. its me against the course not me against other players! ;)

[HiJack]

I remember a tool called LOTU or something like that in older FC versions, enabling external views, labels and everything but afterwards! I don't know if that works for a FC2 track...but am not a fan of LIVE external views online for sure.

You can do the same manually by opening the track file, edit the options, and repack the track. The manual way works for A-10C also ;)

 

EDIT: Oh, and my settings most often go on the HARD + BIRDS 0, and forced external views. Not sure why I force the external views but must you not check the external box to really get the external views?

 

(HJ)

Edited June 11, 2011 by HiJack

[Quirkitized]

The only options I'll ever enforce are no enemys on F10 view. The rest I do not see a point to it. They are options and wont hinder your gameplay. Every single mission i've hosted be it from black shark to the A10 has been coop. Theres no PvP, if somebody is still learning and wants to cheat themselfs by using F7 or labels then that's their issue, it's not going to affect you. I am assuming we are already having game flight mode and game avionics mode turned off.

 

Also, I still don't understand this section of the forums and all the posts within. I just see it as another way to divide the community with all these rules and settings. What ever happen to just loggin in to fly an hour or so and having fun. If the server is open and has everything turned on, you can play it via easy or hard, just don't press F2/F7, etc. Or am I missing something? All these posts make simple flying seem complicated to me, it's like trying to make a public squadron?

 

Just my opinion, I am still trying to figure all this stuff out.

 

Let me also say this is only my view from hosting an open public server for a lot with black shark and now A10. My statements will/could drastically change if we are strictly talking about locked servers/squadron runs, etc. Those I can definitely see an entirely different view on this.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Quirkitized

[MadTommy]

The only options I'll ever enforce are no enemys on F10 view. The rest I do not see a point to it. They are options and wont hinder your gameplay. Every single mission i've hosted be it from black shark to the A10 has been coop. Theres no PvP, if somebody is still learning and wants to cheat themselfs by using F7 or labels then that's their issue, it's not going to affect you. I am assuming we are already having game flight mode and game avionics mode turned off.

 

Also, I still don't understand this section of the forums and all the posts within. I just see it as another way to divide the community with all these rules and settings. What ever happen to just loggin in to fly an hour or so and having fun. If the server is open and has everything turned on, you can play it via easy or hard, just don't press F2/F7, etc. Or am I missing something? All these posts make simple flying seem complicated to me, it's like trying to make a public squadron?

 

Just my opinion, I am still trying to figure all this stuff out.

 

Let me also say this is only my view from hosting an open public server for a lot with black shark and now A10. My statements will/could drastically change if we are strictly talking about locked servers/squadron runs, etc. Those I can definitely see an entirely different view on this.

 

I completely agree, but i don't think anyone is trying divide the community or that these decisions will have that effect. Just folk with different opinions. I assume the purpose was to help people know what environment restrictions a server is running.

 

I've never understood enforcing settings like views, label & map options.

Edited June 11, 2011 by MadTommy

[Quirkitized]

Ahh I see. You know, honestly, it will be hard to do all this without a dedicated server or a better browser. I think it would be nice that when you click on a server, you could see that servers options/settings before you even join it, or the map settings.

 

The current multiplayer browser and related functions are about as bare minimum as you can get, that doesn't help for sure.

[FLANKERATOR]

I think that all the options meant to make things easier should be mainly oriented SP, to help new comers learn the sim and get combat ready, but once you step into the MP arena, REAL settings should be mandatory, just like in real, and especially for famous servers running official stats like 4c, 104th and 51st... Lets remind ourselves we are DCS and FC2 pilots, so far away from AceCombat-like games.

[Case]

A further distinction may be drawn by having server messages on and off.

[MadTommy]

but once you step into the MP arena, REAL settings should be mandatory

 

I only have one question, and that is why?

 

I'm curious, but i think this is going off topic.

 

On topic:

 

The above difficulty levels pointed out by Panzer only refer to Settings level of difficulty but give no indication of Mission level difficulty.

 

You could very easily have a server running Medium or even Easy that was very very difficult, simply through the level of SAM threats for example.

 

Padlock views, labels & easy avionics might help but it would stop you getting killed by insanely difficult mission design. So the above should be categorised a Mission Setting Level, not difficulty.

 

I think it is helpful, but a novice pilot could easily have a lot of fun joining a server on Hard Settings that was running a mission with a low threat level. So the above could easily be very misleading for new comers.

Edited June 12, 2011 by MadTommy

[Druid_]

Looks good Panzer although for HARD I would have F10 Own aircraft only.

By definition REAL should be real, surely, Maybe have an extra option called REAL(ext) for those that like to salivate over their shiny aircraft or gloat over their mates collander.

 

Agree that it would be nice to be able to lock the F7 option or just tie it in with the F10 option views.

[Schnarre Aggro]

.. for HARD I would have F10 Own aircraft only.

...extra option called REAL(ext) ...would be nice to be able to lock the F7 option .....

 

there is nothing more to say ;-) , +1 cause that is exactly what i like to see as well :thumbup:

[Grimes]

I think it needs to be said that the proposed idea has less to do with difficulty and more to do with "restrictions." In that they are a framework of customizable settings where each level is more specific of what can be customized. As a result I would suggest the following:

 

Easy = No Restrictions

Medium = Light Restrictions(Loose, Basic)

Hard = Standard Restrictions (Realistic, Halfcore)

Real = Forced Realism (Hardcore, Nerdcore, FSASB {Flight sims are serious business})

 

Additionally this gets around the whole issue of easy, medium, and hard being typically reserved for the difficulty of the mission itself. However I do not wish to use such simple definitions to categorize how hard a mission may or may not be and thats sorta a different topic.

 

I would also like to add that in an MP setting NOBODY should expect invulnerability and infinite ammo to be optional settings. These are forced off, plain and simple unless otherwise stated in a mission briefing. I feel the reasoning for this should be obvious. There are situations that warrant these settings to be on, but it such instances should be considered the "exception to the rule."

 

I realize this is probably a wishlist sort of comment, but I'll say it anyways. Game settings should be part of the server browser, in that if a user selects a server, the settings of the server should be viewable.

[Cibit]

The Realism settings servers would need seperate missions made if we are agreed on the final settings. Simply in view of the current hint messages. Send text to coalition will need to be deleted and pens to the ready and kneeboard:)

 

If thats the level to be taken have fun I'll see you on the HARD servers;)

[Panzertard]

I've already tested a little bit.

 

Sometimes I had to set the mission to 'Medium' due to it being very simple.

Other missions can be extremly hard, but I included external views and set it to medium - which didn't make any sense.

The mission is hard regardless.

 

As many of you have commented, Leaving invulnerability / external views / map options out of the debate is smart.

 

I'm more in favor of giving a general guideline as to wether the mission is 'Medium' or not - as wether it has External Views on or not.

 

@Grimes, I think that makes sense.

But then to come up with some basic guidelines, such as you did - how to we translate options into the 'easy', 'medium' etc?

 

Anyway, for MP missions, perhaps we can convince the MP Mission makers to add something like this to the mission BRIEF:

-------------------------------

MP Difficulty: Medium / Easy

MP Slots: 6

Mission Type: COOP / PvP

-------------------------------

 

ps, I removed the draft in the first post.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Panzertard

[Grimes]

Its not an issue of things being easy, medium, or hard, its about giving players an expectation that features may or may not be present when they join a server.

 

You must also look at the major audience of this game. Its a complicated flight sim, and I'm sure there are those who play it in game mode, but for the most part, players are running in "sim." From there you have all sorts of different levels of experience with the aircraft and plenty of options that can be used to make things more accessible. Some players prefer certain settings over others. I personally don't mind having tool tips on, nor would I care if easy radio was turned on. I just don't like the idea of having more or less accessibility being offered to players in a server as being defined as it being "easy, medium, or hard." It should "no restrictions" or "open accessibility". Just leave easy, medium, or hard to be relevant to the actual difficulty of a mission.

 

 

-------------------------------

MP Difficulty: Medium / Easy

MP Slots: 6

Mission Type: COOP / PvP

-------------------------------

 

I always liked using naming conventions to get info to the player:

co8.On Station.miz

Its a co-op, it has 8 slots, and its all part of the mission name.

 

Furthermore in the description you can get specific with details...

[WH+BS]

or I'd prefer

6x A-10C, 2x Ka-50

to indicate specifically how many aircraft are in the mission.

 

As for difficulty, I'd prefer a short mission description for what players should expect from it. Also this thread comes to mind, its more about defining "mission types" but its still somewhat relevant to the topic at hand. I like to use mission descriptions because it lets a player judge for themselves, whether or not a mission sounds difficult. In "On Station" none of the waypoints matched up with target areas, they just acted as a shared reference for the players. As a result I included a little comment in the general description of the mission stating that players must know how to use the CDU to input coordinates. Does that make it a hard mission? I donno, I think that makes it different, maybe a little more realistic, but not necessarily "hard."

 

On a related note of Panzers 2nd post...

Mirrors and Easy communication exist on the the gameplay options menu page. They do not exist in the mission options menu. For both of these items, are these settings only forced by the server if it has "use these settings" checked?

I feel mirrors should be more of a graphics setting as they tend to have quite an impact on FPS performance. Easy comms doesn't bother me really, its just one of those personal preferences I guess. I was just wondering why everything else but these items are shared between the 2 "Forced settings" pages.