Nevada Updates

[element1108]

I really don't understand ED sometimes and i hope i'm wrong : why making this map PAYWARE when the possibility of immersion in real combat really goes down when you're over las vegas instead of Irak/Afghanistan when there is a LOT of 3D planes models who seem to come from 1980's. At least , id prefer to see a new map with a 3D models improvement ... Please , why does the SAM systems and tanks got a better 3D model than quite a lot of planes ?

 

There's a lot more prioritary things to do IMHO

 

But at this stage , to be constructive , i think that to make people pay you should make those 3D models

 

I think Nevada is a great addition personally. Immersion comes when you can do all your training in Nevada instead of the AO.

 

Preferences are preferences, you're not going to satisfy everybody. :pilotfly:

 

Hopefully in the end the improvements will warrant the cost associated with it. I like to think of it as an "expansion" of the original product. Like "B-Wing" was an expansion to X-Wing. :)

Edited September 9, 2011 by element1108

[nomdeplume]

i don't really feel lts différent to pay 60€ before or after the release

The reason it's different is because the Nevada map was a product feature at the time the pre-order was made available. When that feature was withdrawn (so it could be further developed), some people quite reasonably felt like they'd been mislead. So, ED/TFC made the best compromise they could: that feature wouldn't be available when the game was released, but people who'd pre-ordered the game while that was listed as a feature would receive it for free once it was finished. And, it'd be better than the originally planned version of that feature. So, that's a pretty good deal, really.

 

People who bought the game after the release weren't told there'd be a Nevada map included with the product, so there wasn't that expectation in the first place, and it didn't factor into their decision to buy the product at the asking price. And as a business decision, ED/TFC have decided they think the new and improved Nevada theatre is good enough to charge for, so they're selling it.

[scheffchen]

I bought the very first beta last year, which had Nevada included.

BUT with the new engine included even I would pay for it since it's not only a map upgrade anymore! Now you may throw (small) stones at me :p

 

Besides, apart from the niche-type of product as dcs-a10 is, think of any other game where you got such an impressive update and compatibility patches for free.

 

Cheers

Boris

[VincentLaw]

Besides, apart from the niche-type of product as dcs-a10 is, think of any other game where you got such an impressive update and compatibility patches for free.

 

Its not the first time this business model has been tried. Its similar to the original plan for Guild Wars (which ended up falling through). Basically Their idea was to release the game in stand alone terrain/story modules. They planned on releasing a new module about every 6 months that would be compatible with the other modules, so if you owned more than one of them you could go between the areas with the same character. Any of the updates to the game would effect all of the modules, not just the latest one. Since the company would have a constant stream of money from the new modules, they could constantly maintain and update all of their compatible products without charging a subscription fee or tons of microtransactions like in other MMOs.

 

As it turns out, it took longer than 6 months to develop each module, and maybe they were not as profitable as the company had hoped, and probably a lot of other reasons too, so instead of continuing this format, the company decided to scrap the old plan and just make a sequel: Guild Wars 2.

[Mohamengina]

I didn't pre-order and I have no issue with giving more money to this awesome company. Especially considering how rare good flight sims are.

[skoner]

absolutely right Mohamengina

i agree with your opinion 100%

they deserved to get paid for this fantastic work

[Topo]

I also bought the first beta, and also I'd be willing to pay for Nevada and for a new graphics engine.

But even free is good ... ;-)

[Jinja]

why does the SAM systems and tanks got a better 3D model than quite a lot of planes ?

 

Because SAMS and tanks are exactly the models YOU as a virtual A-10 pilot spend most of your time looking at (through the TGP and out your rear window as you egress).

 

Apart from those few minutes while you taxi to the runway, the fighters are TOO far away and TOO fast to justify the re-allocation of effort (within a limited-resources entity) away from major areas like new locations, new avionics, future products, etc. As you understance the importance of priorities, IMHO ED have correctly prioritized their wishlist according to the business brief set out by the business directors. A-10 are not competing against HAWX, and thus this is why eye-candy has taken a back-seat.

[Divide Et Impera]

That's right , i've never seen any F16 , any ukrainian plane etc taxing in front of me . Have you played any scénario a bit more evolved than " shooting tanks shooting the other tank .. " ?

 

But as always ED is perfect , whats the point of this forum so ? I'm not attacking ED , i attack the 99% of Fan-boys ..

 

This is not a SO important thing but man stop beeing ED's pompom girl ..

 

Without any agression , but with the passion of the debate

Edited September 9, 2011 by Divide Et Impera

[amalahama]

" shooting tanks shooting the other tank .. "

 

Bravo, you have summarized in only 6 words the A-10C 'raison d'être' both in the sim and real life!

 

Regards!

[WRFirefox]

Why do you attack Fan-boys?

Everybody has the right of his own opinion - so, ATTACK someone is real stupid!:doh:

[digitaljjd]

I also bought the first beta, and also I'd be willing to pay for Nevada and for a new graphics engine.

But even free is good ... ;-)

 

The point is, it's not free, you've already paid for it, and you still don't have it yet. Why would you be willing to pay for it again?

[xjiks]

I see lot of people think ED is punishing them because they have to pay for the new map, but this people should revert their mind and consider ED is making a "gift" to the ones who pre-ordered the A10C !

 

Personnaly, I preordered the game, and the game at that time of the beta was including the Nevada.

I preordered the "package" so I request to have what I payed for. Users would have set the forum on fire if we would have to pay again the Nevada.

 

People who just bought the final game, knew there would be no Nevada included and they would have to give extra money for it.

[Phrenesis]

The point is, it's not free, you've already paid for it, and you still don't have it yet. Why would you be willing to pay for it again?

Uhm it is free, because you don't have to pay while others do.(if you pre-ordered, that is).

 

And his point was that its not just a new map, it is a new engine aswell. So we get more then what was promised in the first place. And he would be willing to pay for that.

[Divide Et Impera]

Bravo, you have summarized in only 6 words the A-10C 'raison d'être' both in the sim and real life!

 

Regards!

 

This is Military obligations , we are in a game , the goal is to make different scenarios , not the only one who is made by true planes . So in this case , delete the russian boats , have you ever seen a10C attacking russian boats ? what are the MIG29 are here for ? etc .

 

and for the fan-boy part , being a Fan-boy wich means love evrything from some entity even if its not that good , is not a good action philosophically speaking ..

[GGTharos]

What's your problem now?

 

This is Military obligations , we are in a game , the goal is to make different scenarios , not the only one who is made by true planes . So in this case , delete the russian boats , have you ever seen a10C attacking russian boats ? what are the MIG29 are here for ? etc

[SmokeyTheLung]

It seems that the crowd that was willing to pre-order, is probably also the crowd that would be happy to shell out a few extra bucks for new content.

 

Well I understand that budgets are tight, I just can't wrap my brain around the idea that new content shouldn't cost money.

 

Time=money

 

Why should ED hold their business to a standard that really doesn't exist elsewhere?

So I make guitars for a living, if I make you a guitar and than nine months later I develop a better pickup/bracing pattern you better believe that I won't upgrade your guitar for free! Not because I'm a scumbag, but because I have bills to pay.

[Tone71]

This is Military obligations , we are in a game , the goal is to make different scenarios , not the only one who is made by true planes . So in this case , delete the russian boats , have you ever seen a10C attacking russian boats ? what are the MIG29 are here for ? etc .

 

Every mission is a different scenario albeit with similar targets. You play a certain role, as do the MiG 29's and Russian boats and everything else in the game.

Maybe the F18s are attacking the boats, the MiGs are sent to see them off, F16s are in the air to clear SAMs for you, whilst you fly in to destroy the tanks. Everything is there to add to the immersion, for your benefit.

This isn't a sim where you take-off, destroy every plane and ground target you see, then land. :)

[Topo]

The point is, it's not free, you've already paid for it, and you still don't have it yet. Why would you be willing to pay for it again?

 

 

It is true, and I think it's correct the decision to release the Nevada map for free who purchased the beta.

But if you participate in a beta, I think, however, the final product may differ from the initial beta, with content added or sometimes removed.

all IMHO

 

Sorry for my poor English...

[borchi_2b]

to everbody,

 

the discussion about the extra pay is senceless, cause, there are some points that you have to look at.

 

first, other companies do bussiness the same way, just a wink at the poor add on models for FS that were developed and sold for hard cash.

alot of models lacked of detail, esspecially when i look at the fighters, but people bought them, cause they wanted them.

 

i am not an owner of dcsA10 , but i probably will buy it when it is out here as a box, and for me, it is my decision if i want to pay for nevada or not. it might be a great map, in details etc etc, i even worked on nellis 3d objects and the base in the beginning, but nobody of simmod ever thought of the map to become what it is today, thanks to luckybob :-), great work dude !

we started to make it for free, but unfortunatly the simmod group has fallen apart. what do you think would have happend when we would have stayed together. do you think we would have given it to the community for free? maybe, but i remeber working on the models for the base. we met at diffrent times, for me most of the time at night, nights without sleep. we worked hard on the map, partially, and don´t you think it is worth to pay the people who worked on the project.

 

i think people, esspecially of this community should get the fact, of getting things for free, out of thier heads!

 

why?

has anybody of you, anybody of this community paid any money to the 3go team, who made the su27 model, with all the hate and love that is involved in such project? hav i gotten any support or any money from the community, when i was working on my f15c albino?

 

simple answer, NO, NO, NO

 

actually, most of the people here do not know how much workload such a single plane for example is, and normally we did all that in our free time, without hanging out with our girls, just because we love the sim, and a map is even a way bigger deal then a 3d model of a plane!!!

try to develop a map alone, have fun with it, i guess we will not see it released in 2 or 3 years, add a 0 to it, this may come close, when you have no support by others, who work on the same project. and i speak of a map that is similar to the upcoming nevada mod.

(in some way i hope they could realise what we dreamed of, a complete las vegas with every freaking house, but i assume not :-()

we never asked for any payment, and i think when we would have done so, even just 1$ would have been discussed by most of the members, with the fact that it should be for free and that they would not be willing to pay for it, although we had the idea of financing new projects and the simmod forum with the income. just think about the fact, 36000 users, ok, a new 3d model for a plane, with permission of ED sold, for 1$ or 1€, and maybe only 5000 - 10000 downloads, reality probably would have beens less downloads, would make a payment, or a found of maybe 5000$. we could have payed the HP of simmod for another 2 or 3 years and also a SIMMOD TEAMSPEAK for everybody to join for free :-), and start new projects, maybe things we would have had to by software for or models from other people, cause we would not have had the time to develop them by ourselfs, do to the complexity of the model. maybe we would have had the money to buy other satelitepictures of diffrent regions in the world and after the nevada release could have started with new maps.

these are facts that should make clear, why ED is purchasing money for the nevadamap, cause they have finished the product, cause we were not able to, no matter which reasons we had.

so what i want to say as a final word to this is, that ED probably will do exact the same thing with the money what we would have done, if we would not have split up.

you see, there is a fair reason to it, why they make the people pay for it.

you still have the choice if you want to have the product or not, the same choice you have when you go into a shop and buy a coca cola, instead of just going home and get yourself a water, which seems to be free, although it is not, cause the water is included into the rent, at least thats the way it is handled here :-)

 

so i do not understand all the bitching about paying for something that is involved with alot of work.

just allways remember, not even death is for free, you have to give your life, the get death, fair traid, isn´t it?

 

i hope i was not to offensive on this, cause this is something that bothers me for years now in this community !!!!

 

p.s.: might be the reason why some projects were never finished or released by some talented guys i know of this community,including me, sorry to say that, although the projects were very promissing and everybody wanted to have them, FOR FREEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!:lol:

Edited September 9, 2011 by borchi_2b

[supraman2turbo]

The Nevada map actually makes the most sense. Hear me out. The next DCS is going to be a US Fighter, that much is confirmed. It makes more sense to release a Red Flag terrain due to the fact that both DCS jets are American. So you can have Red and Blue forces both flying American craft where it makes sense to do so.

 

Yeah it leaves the black shark as the odd ball out but the shark is also the only DCS Helo.

 

If DCS is going in the direction that I think they are. Once they get get an american helo and at least 1 foreign fighter it would make sense to then make a map where it would make sense to have the opfor be from a different country.

[borchi_2b]

edit: my post is primarly hinted at DIVIDE ET IMPERA

[borchi_2b]

@supraman2turbo:

 

well i think why Ed ended up with nevada was more the fact, that the map was allready developed to some certain extend and that we were working on the base at the stage, when we broke up. there was something in development and they supporeted our efforts, so why should you let something down when you supported it, and when it was allready in development?

the fact that the next DCS fighter will be an american has nothing to do with the nevadamap, in my opinion.

 

just think of a map called WORLD, how do you want to legalise the next DCS fighter?

should it be the glider of the wright brothers, so nobody can say, ohh it is in favour of that or that country?

 

just leave it the way it is, the next module will be an american fighter, (although i hopw they realease 2 fighters, an us and a russian one :-)?:-),) without any reasons to the map. cause we all do not know why ED choose an US fighter, that are only assumtions, that only WAGS and the managing team of ED can set right and state !

[EtherealN]

Just to be clear though: Nevada as being developed by ED is a lot more than "just" finishing the old mod. As has been said: the nevada that was in the beta has only one thing in common with this: it's nevada. That's pretty much it. (I guess some underlying resources like terrain data might have been reused, that's a bit too far into the details for me to even know though. Just bears reminding that this is not Beta-nevada-that-got-finished, it's a LOT more. :) )

 

Regarding Red Flag as well, note that many countries with many types of aircraft regularly participate. There have been Gripens, Flankers, Mirages etcetera etcetera flying RedFlags in Nevada with regularity.

[Nate--IRL--]

This is worth Quoting again for all to see.

 

This map initially started as a 3rd party effort that we hoped to include in A-10C as the location for all training missions. However, due to a number of reasons, that effort stalled and eventually our Minsk team had to take over the project in order for it to get it done (luckybob is still involved and assisting), with a high level of quality, and using the updated terrain/DX11 engine (such as use of clip maps).

 

When released, we see the map as the center for US aircraft training missions, as well as Red Flag and Green Flag missions. We think it would be fun/interesting to first learn the aircraft in the US and conduct exercises before taking on true combat missions in the Black Sea map.

 

Nate