Bingo?

[WildFire]

I usually fly as realistic as possible so I always top off the tanks when available and I always land with enough fuel to divert if needed. I laugh whenever someone in multiplayer runs out of fuel cause it seems pretty ridiculous. Is the A-10 the only aircraft in the US arsenal without a betty for bingo? Kind of figured that was a must, although I know you have master cautions that light up when your low... I think Ive only seen them once.

 

On a totally unrelated topic has anyone figured out or found some kind of method of having the ATC send you to takeoff on the correct runway? Im still getting clearance to downwind takeoff so I have yet to really utilize ATC whatsoever.

[PhoenixBvo]

Flying realistically doesn't mean you always take off with full tanks. Depending on payload and mission requirements I sometimes fly with just 50%. I never ran out of fuel yet... In the case of battle damage other system failures tend to cause my flight to end sooner than a punctured fuel tank :)...

[Cp]

On a totally unrelated topic has anyone figured out or found some kind of method of having the ATC send you to takeoff on the correct runway? Im still getting clearance to downwind takeoff so I have yet to really utilize ATC whatsoever.

 

Depends on which airfields you use, take nalchick for example, no matter where the winds come from the ATC will tell you to take off from rwy 06 and land on rwy 24.

I dont think this is a bug, but because theres a city pretty close to the threshold of rwy 06 so they probably don't want you flying there.

 

If you look at the actual runway you'll see that there are only black tire marks on one end of the runway on the airfields where only one side is used for landings.

Here's Nalchick:

 

 

Its the same thing for Batumi, only one side is used. I'm not sure why though, could be the because that there are mountains near rwy 31

[Stingray66]

Concerning the ATC - I dont think this is intended -> why should then certain airports have ILS on exactly the never-used runway...

[Eddie]

Concerning the ATC - I dont think this is intended -> why should then certain airports have ILS on exactly the never-used runway...

 

 

Which airports are you reffering to. The bases where ATC seems to ignore the wind, all have hazards associated with one runway.

 

Take Batumi for example, you can only take off in one direction and only land in the opposite direction, regardless of wind. Due to the big **** off mountains in the way.

[112th_Rossi]

I get a R-Wing fuel pressure warning when im low on fuel. About 1200lbs or so.

[WildFire]

Due to the big **** off mountains in the way.

 

Lol I'll have to take a look at that I never thought about it, could the proximity of another airport by one of these things? Im talking about Vaziani but I'll have to look around.

 

About the fuel, yeah I rarely take off with full tanks, too heavy usually with a full load. I usually go light to get up to alt, then top off and start my patrols.

 

The mission I built for single player last night is tough, a 3 hour patrol and no cues, so your basically on patrol searching for targets for three hours. On my first run I had to AAR 3 times. The third refuel was a bit sketchy cause I was getting really low around the time my relief was to show up, so I stayed on til they got there, then I went for gas and home to IMC at vaziani.

[shu77]

One of the things I noticed when I was doing my Airfield Charts is that if you look at the RL charts for a number of these airports they point out that only one direction is in use. Typically its the Runway that takes you off our to sea. I assume its to do with the prevailing wind directions off the Sea and also the mountains/city in that part of the world. Its kind of contrary to what you are taught when doing your PPL, Batumi for example is a bad airport to learn on, as you dont do things properly in that respect, but I guess that's the joy of that Area for Operating.

[ashcanpete]

Depends on which airfields you use, take nalchick for example, no matter where the winds come from the ATC will tell you to take off from rwy 06 and land on rwy 24.

I dont think this is a bug, but because theres a city pretty close to the threshold of rwy 06 so they probably don't want you flying there.

 

If you look at the actual runway you'll see that there are only black tire marks on one end of the runway on the airfields where only one side is used for landings.

Here's Nalchick:

 

 

Its the same thing for Batumi, only one side is used. I'm not sure why though, could be the because that there are mountains near rwy 31

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, here is a real world pic of Batumi, note the clearly visible tire marks on one side only.

 

 

 

Though, as shu77 mentioned, in some places the wind comes from one general direction pretty much all the time. I'm not sure if Batumi or any of the other airports in DCS have that kind of weather, but if they did, that would account for the tire markings. However this wouldn't necessarily mean that if the wind did come from another direction, ATC would still have to use that same runway.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that two things could be going on here:

 

1. In real life, the wind always blows one way, so only one runway is used, and that's why DCS modeled the ATC like they did. In this case, any wind you set in the ME that causes downwind takeoffs is actually an unrealistic setting and thus shouldn't be used.

 

2. There is some safety reason or urban development that causes ATC to only use one runway in real life, thus DCS modeled it likewise.

 

I'd bet that number 2 is the case for the runways modeled in DCS. On a further note, I'd be interested to know if there is recurrent/dominant weather patterns in Georgia that we could simulate in the game for added realism.

Edited August 4, 2011 by ashcanpete

[nscode]

OT: heh.. they plowed away that center taxiway

 

You should note that Turkish border is close to Batumi.

 

As for teaching there,

7 Educational and training flights. Technical test flying. Use of runways

Educational and training flights can be made only after permission from the TWR. Permission will not be given within the

following periods: 18.00-08.00 LT and on Saturdays, on Sundays and official holidays. For educational and training flights

and such technical test flights necessary for the purpose of ascertaining the airworthiness during flight, use of the RWY

system is restricted as follows: RWY 31 must be used for take-off only and RWY 13 must be used for landing only.

 

from

 

http://echoteam.cz/upload/ets/UGSB.pdf

Edited August 4, 2011 by nscode

[cichlidfan]

Take Batumi for example, you can only take off in one direction and only land in the opposite direction, regardless of wind. Due to the big **** off mountains in the way.

 

I don't think they are as close but Nalchik has similar issues.

 

I flew into Nalchik for a 'wrong way' landing once. Laid the course out in the ME first. There is a nice valley to the north to come in from, then turn south, then west to the runway. It was fun.:pilotfly:

[Eddie]

On a further note, I'd be interested to know if there is recurrent/dominant weather patterns in Georgia that we could simulate in the game for added realism.

 

There certainly are, a few minutes with google should give you a good idea of average weather conditions. I found a decent amount of information when I was doing weather research for my missions.

[Eddie]

About the fuel, yeah I rarely take off with full tanks, too heavy usually with a full load. I usually go light to get up to alt, then top off and start my patrols.

 

The mission I built for single player last night is tough, a 3 hour patrol and no cues, so your basically on patrol searching for targets for three hours. On my first run I had to AAR 3 times. The third refuel was a bit sketchy cause I was getting really low around the time my relief was to show up, so I stayed on til they got there, then I went for gas and home to IMC at vaziani.

 

Remember, if you're trying to fly in a realistic way, keep the weapon loads sensible. Add more aircraft to the mission, not more weapons to the aircraft.

 

As for fuel and tankers, you shouldn't ever let your fuel drop below bingo before hitting the tanker. Bingo is the minimum amount of fuel you need to make it home + enough to reach a divert airfield and a reserve, normally at least 3000lbs or more on most realistic missions. If you won't have time to hook upto the tanker before you drop below bingo, your mission is over and you go home.

 

Typically, you'd head to the tanker when you hit joker (the point you should be leaving the fight, if you're in one), or slightly above. Just like bingo, there is no way to set a warning for joker, you just have to decide on one during planning and keep an eye on your fuel.

 

This is of course providing you want to keep it realistic.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Eddie

[pandawelch]

Just made it down

 

 

Never knew you used so much fuel taxiing :D

[WildFire]

It happens. Excellent screenshot pandawelch.

[Sickdog]

One of the things I noticed when I was doing my Airfield Charts is that if you look at the RL charts for a number of these airports they point out that only one direction is in use. Typically its the Runway that takes you off our to sea. I assume its to do with the prevailing wind directions off the Sea and also the mountains/city in that part of the world. Its kind of contrary to what you are taught when doing your PPL, Batumi for example is a bad airport to learn on, as you dont do things properly in that respect, but I guess that's the joy of that Area for Operating.

 

I've landed in Batumi in RL, I can confirm this.

[Mud]

I've landed in Batumi in RL, I can confirm this.

 

If only you could see my green, envious face now :)

[WildBillKelsoe]

I usually fly as realistic as possible so I always top off the tanks when available and I always land with enough fuel to divert if needed. I laugh whenever someone in multiplayer runs out of fuel cause it seems pretty ridiculous. Is the A-10 the only aircraft in the US arsenal without a betty for bingo? Kind of figured that was a must, although I know you have master cautions that light up when your low... I think Ive only seen them once.

 

On a totally unrelated topic has anyone figured out or found some kind of method of having the ATC send you to takeoff on the correct runway? Im still getting clearance to downwind takeoff so I have yet to really utilize ATC whatsoever.

Actually there is a betty. Your wingman.. When he declares bingo fuel, you should check the different stations. I remember that we were both orbiting around Batumi, and the bastard suddenly shouts, out of fuel. I decide ATC to kiss my ***, and I land on the occupied runway, merely scratching an F-16 on the tarmac.

[Frostiken]

Flying realistically doesn't mean you always take off with full tanks.

 

I've actually been thinking about this... maybe it's because we don't need tons of munitions, but I've never seen a crew chief only fuel an aircraft partway. Maybe it's different on the A-10 because it can hold so damn much fuel, but on the F-15Es they're always fueled up all the way, even for OOD where they carried about 10,000 lbs of munitions.

 

Maybe the difference is that external tanks on the F-15E go on the mostly unused stations 2 and 8 so if weight / fuel is a concern they simply don't carry them...

[EtherealN]

I'd also suspect that it's a greater concern with the Hog than on the Strike Eagle because the Hog doesn't have those rediculous engines, so the extra weight impacts the performance in a much more serious way with the Hog than with the E.

 

And of course, the E can use the extra fuel in emergencies to gain extreme power with the AB's, which might make it more useful to have the extra fuel instead of the lower weight for times when maneuver is important.

[Eddie]

I've never seen a military aircraft fuelled to anything less than full either, when the nature of your flight is somewhat unpredictable as it will be in combat, having any less than full tanks is a bit daft.

 

Civi aircraft may fly with less than full tanks as the norm, the same is not true in the military world.

[Frostiken]

The only thing I can think of is in the Navy, where I think it's common to take off a carrier with a low fuel load and then tank in the air.

[Eddie]

Yeah, there is another occasion as well, but not something I'd be discussing in public as it involves current ops. And isn't really relevant to the DCS scenario anyway.

[EtherealN]

I have a guess. :P

[Joyride]

If you read "A-10's Over Kosovo" and/or stories of current ops in Afghanistan (the Harrier book, "A Nightmare's Prayer") ...first thing they do in every mission after taking off...they hit the tanker.

 

I assumed they were just topping off after whatever they spent taking off, so they could be full as they started their combat patrol but also heard recently that it's cheaper to fly the fuel in on a KC-135 than truck it in over land, at least when it comes to places like Kabul. Thus, their jets weren't taking off full. Thought that was interesting.