wow!

[Gun Jam]

I've been a long time fan of pc sims. I started with falcon and aces of the pacific. A-10 cuba was one of my favorites for lots of reasons. the last sim I played was Il2.

 

I kinda felt that PC sims were dead and nothing worth playing was ever released after il2. Then I saw a-10c on youtube last night and I was like...whoa. I had no idea anything of this depth existed.

 

I dont own it yet and I dont think my pc will run it but I'm still totally excited!

 

I guess I have two initial questions.

 

1) being that even the start up procedure is nearly realistic and requires a fair amount of time does this sim allow for one to save games in progress or a check point system during a campaign mission?

 

2) is the campaign dynamic or is it a scripted story.

 

Thanks

 

-Gun

[kylania]

1. Ya know, never even tried. Don't think so though. You can auto-start, but the main startup only takes 5 minutes or so.

 

2. Nope, all scripted.

 

To be honest I've enjoyed multiplayer the most though. Something wonderful about having a friend call out a target and share it on your TAD then you fly in an take it out.

[VFA41_Lion]

1. No, but with time and practice you can complete start up procedures in a couple of minutes. There's also auto-start up for those times when you don't feel like it.

 

2. Yeah, its scripted by campaign and mission editors. Campaign dynamics depend on the editors.

[Gun Jam]

Whats the basic campaign story? Who are you fighting and why?

 

it doesn't look like you have to fly very far on each mission is that true or does it utilize some kind of "skip ahead" feature?

 

Thanks again

[kylania]

Georgian Hammer Campaign:

 

For the second time in the beginning of the 21st century, Georgia has been invaded and occupied by hostile forces. Unlike the first instance though, Georgia is now a member of NATO and has pleaded with other NATO members to remove hostile forces from its territory.

 

As part of a small NATO contingent, US Army and Air Force units have been stationed at and North of Batumi with the goal of pushing hostile forces north, back over the Georgian boarder near Sochi.

 

You will be spearheading this effort.

 

 

3rd Party Campaigns available from here.

 

The Shore campaign:

 

Tensions between Russia and the United States have reached a new high. After heavy international pressure, Russia was forced to withdraw its forces from Abkhazia, resulting in heavy turmoil throughout the autonomous republic. In an effort to restore order and reestablish the territorial integrity of the Republic of Georgia, a coalition of Georgian, US and Turkish forces have taken control of Abkhazia. Because of the overwhelming superiority of the allied forces, Abkhazian opposition was limited. Russia feels cheated over the independence of a pro-Russian Republic of Abkhazia and looks determined to answer with force. A war along the shore of the Black Sea seems imminent.

 

 

Devil's Cross Campaign:

 

Following the defeat of Georgia in the 2008 South Ossetia war, the USA and its allies decided to send troops to the Caucasus to stabilize the situation and contain Russian influence in the region. The foremost force of this expedition is the 1st Cavalry Division, a rapidly deployable heavy armor formation, most suited to confront the Russian 58th Army stationed in South Ossetia. As the US troops take up position along the border to South Ossetia, the Tbilisi government has agreed to pull back its military forces to West Georgia in an attempt to defuse the situation.

 

Unhappy with the outcome of their war, Georgian nationalists have blown up the Roki tunnel, the only connection between South Ossetia and Russia. With their only supply line cut and no sufficient airfield in South Ossetia, the Russian 58th Army is in a dire situation. They either abandon their equipment, evacuate their personnel by helicopter and quite their ambitions in South Ossetia, or go into the offensive and subdue Georgia once and for all. Unfortunately it is all too clear which path they will choose.

[joey45]

Whats the basic campaign story? Who are you fighting and why?

 

it doesn't look like you have to fly very far on each mission is that true or does it utilize some kind of "skip ahead" feature?

 

Thanks again

 

There is no skip feature, Cos you can't do it in real life..

 

But you don't have to land once the objective of the mission has been completed.

 

EDIT: If you have a Apple or Android phone you can download an App to help you with the systems. i.e. start up procceder

[Gun Jam]

awesome these guys went all out.

 

Im guessing based on the complexity of this sim that track IR is required as much as a joystick is.

 

What track ir system works well?

[kylania]

I use TrackIR 4 with the 5 software (which is free). If you're just getting into it I highly suggest TrackIR 5 with the Pro Clip, go big! :) If you want to start cheaper 4 with Pro Clip would be a good start, but try for the 5 if at all possible.

 

It's not required to use TrackIR, but it'll totally change the experience for you.

[Gun Jam]

Thanks for everyone's help!

 

Ill look into track ir5

[EtherealN]

A note regarding scripting: there is integrated randomizing options that the designer can use, and even for the "linear" campaigns it isn't quite as linear as it might seem - the system works in "stages", and you advance to the next stage once you finish the mission stage you are in - but there can be multiple missions in the given stage and the mission you actually have to play would be selected from the pool. It won't (necessarily) be the same every time.

 

Regarding TrackIR, I'm like Kylania - TrackIR4 Pro with TrackIR 5 software, works perfectly. If money is an item, the FreeTrackNOIR guys were able to implement good support for DCS A-10C once the head-tracker API was released to the community. That software would only require a webcam to give you similar functionality (though a webcam typically has a slower refresh rate and thinner field of view than a TrackIR unit, but can't argue with "free" :) )

 

If you used mouse for view in IL-2, which is what I did, then you should still be able to survive in DCS with mouse for view, however it might be a bit complex since you'd have to switch mode between view and click whenever you need to operate switches in the cockpit. It's not terrible, and still eminently playable, but personally I love my TrackIR. It's awesome and I had no idea it could be as awesome as it is until I actually bought one.

[nomdeplume]

it doesn't look like you have to fly very far on each mission is that true or does it utilize some kind of "skip ahead" feature?

It depends on the mission, but most have the player's airbase pretty close to the action - anything more than about a 10-15 minute flight to the target is unusual, I think. Often it's less. Depends on the mission designer of course. P.S. did we mention the mission editor? It's pretty awesome.

 

The game has time compression so you can accelerate time as much as your PC can handle, so if you do find yourself in an uneventful flight you can whiz through it pretty quickly. That said, the flight dynamics are such that for a long time you'll probably just enjoy flying around even in the 'boring bits'. :)

 

1) being that even the start up procedure is nearly realistic and requires a fair amount of time does this sim allow for one to save games in progress or a check point system during a campaign mission?

 

Others have mentioned it but just to reiterate, the startup procedure only takes a few minutes once you're used to it - beginning the taxi on the 5 minute mark is pretty common, even with all the DSMS profiles configured to my liking. This is actually one of the nice things about the A-10 -- the startup takes long enough to make you feel like you're starting up a complex jet, but not so long you're sitting around waiting for 5-10 minutes with nothing to do. The only thing you need to wait for is the EGI alignment process, which only takes 4 minutes - and there's enough to do in the interim that you often don't need to wait at all.

 

Your typical mission will probably take about 1 hour to 1.5 hours w/o time compression. Some can be shorter or longer obviously, but I think that's pretty indicative of the average length. It doesn't seem like very long when you're flying it... and you can pause if you need to attend to something else.

 

The game does have a track saving system whereby it saves what happens in a mission so you can watch it later, and it's possible to take control of a track you're watching at any point. However the system sometimes misses events making it pretty hit-and-miss - the longer the track plays for the more likely it is to diverge from what actually happened. So, to some extent you could use that as a "save" system (i.e. quit, save the track, then later replay it and take control near the end) -- but I wouldn't rely on it.

 

A bigger issue (for me, anyway) is one of continuity. I don't really like playing runway-start (let alone air-start) missions because starting up the jet, taxiing, takeoff, and flying the ingress is all part of establishing the mood of the mission. Without them I feel like I'm missing something. Therefore while being able to reliably save and resume sessions would be useful at times, I'd personally use it very sparingly as it'd just kill the immersion.

 

Finally, another ++ for TrackIR. I've got the v4 and v5 hardware and there's not really much difference, so if $$s are an issue and you can find a TrackIR 4 for cheap I'd go with that rather than a 5. Depends what other hardware you already have - a good HOTAS is a must, and I'd get rudder pedals too if you don't already have them (not really necessary for the A-10 but still definitely nice to have).

[Evil.Bonsai]

I'll add my "+1" for trackir and hotas. I bought a Thrustmaster Couger when they first came out to use with Falcon 4.0, so I wasn't hurting for a HOTAS setup. If you're single, seriously consider the TM Warthog HOTAS; I would if I didn't already have a setup. If you're married...er, 2nd job? I dunno, maybe set aside double the cost of a TM Warthog and offer half to the SO for something they'd like to have so you can get a NICE HOTAS. I did just purchase a Trackir and it is seriously worth the money.

 

Sigh...now if only I could have a MODERN AH-64D sim. So miss Longbow 2.

[EtherealN]

Sigh...now if only I could have a MODERN AH-64D sim. So miss Longbow 2.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=70097

 

:)

Not released yet, but I'm holding up hope that it'll end up being good stuff.

[Gun Jam]

yess...Jane's Longbow 2 was indeed good times.

[WildFire]

Ive also been watching that combat helo site for a LONG time. Dude has come a really long way. I wish hed hurry up and sell it to a full on developer or start a company.

[Evil.Bonsai]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=70097

 

:)

Not released yet, but I'm holding up hope that it'll end up being good stuff.

 

Wow (again.) That looks really nice.

 

Though to be fair to LB2, I really enjoyed the Blackhawk aspect as well. Not so much the Kiowa, but definitely the Longbow and Blackhawk. Sneaking NOE to drop a crew off way behind lines then sneaking back out. Was messing around with the Arma2 demo and immediately jumped into a Little Bird. Now THAT is a fun heli!

[Waxi]

I had no idea anything of this depth existed.

 

I also noticed DCS A-10C only by accident. I immediately bought it an did not regret it.

[Gun Jam]

So whats the deal. Is DCS the publisher or developer?

 

Were these sims built for gamers or were they originally the software that ran military sims (I thought I read that somewhere)

 

DCS should release a demo that's a highly effective form of advertisement. maybe the demo allows you to play 2 tutorial missions (start up / takeoff and something with weapon systems)

[Nate--IRL--]

DCS is the title of the sim series "Digital Combat Simulator". The Developers are "Eagle Dynamics" (ED) and the Publishers are "The Fighter Collection" (TFC) who happen to own ED..

 

Nate

[Harzach]

DCS is the title of the sim series "Digital Combat Simulator". The Developers are "Eagle Dynamics" (ED) and the Publishers are "The Fighter Collection" (TFC) who happen to own ED..

 

Nate

 

And from what I understand, A-10C and Black Shark are both essentially "modules" of a larger endeavor, The Battle Simulator.

 

"The Battle Simulator" creates a synthetic environment of elements of modern land, sea and air warfare. It is based on The Fighter Collection Simulation Engine (TFCSE), developed for The Fighter Collection (TFC) by its associate company, Eagle Dynamics, and currently integrated into a commercial "Serious Games" simulation product.

The military version provides modules that provide on stand alone or networked PC's:

 

• Systems Training
  
• Procedure Training
  
• Computer Aided Training Enhancement
  
• Mission Planning/Training
  

A module for the training of Forward Air Controllers (FACSE) is currently available.

http://www.thebattlesim.com/index.php?end_pos=3&scr=newslist&lang=en

 

Their site hasn't been updated in ages, though.

[EtherealN]

Not quite. The Battle Simulator is a military product.

[159th_Viper]

And from what I understand, A-10C and Black Shark are both essentially "modules" of a larger endeavor, The Battle Simulator......

 

No - that's the military-side of TFC's endeavours. Completely separate from DCS.

 

Edit: Norrised

[Harzach]

I didn't mean to suggest that TBS is being developed for commercial release, just that there is a connection there. Looking at the videos on the TBS site, it is clear that their A-10 and Ka-50 modules are related to their DCS counterparts.

[EtherealN]

Well yes Harzach, that's obvious and well known; DCS A-10C is based on information gained through the military contract for an A-10C DTS (Desktop Training Simulator). Obviously, the product lines share technology - that's part of the business model TFC and ED is pursuing; letting multiple markets share the development costs. (Without this, the only way we'd get to fly something as realistic as DCS:A-10C would be to join the US Air Force or ANG.)

 

But DCS:BS and DCS:A-10C are not "part" of the "larger endeavour" known as TBS. The DCS and TBS lines of products exist in parallell, one is not subordinate to the other.

 

Think of it like desktop versions of Windows and server versions of Windows; is one "part" of the other? No - they're separate products for separate markets and purposes, but share a lot in the underlying technology which allows Microsoft to exploit synergies: development done for the desktop version may very well be applicable to the server version (in which case it would be "copied"), and vice versa. Sometimes it's not applicable, in which case the code or technology in question would be left in it's "host" version of the general codebase.

[Harzach]

Indeed, my wording was off the mark, as I made it sound as though the DCS products were being used by TBS. Clearly, the actual relationship is closer to the converse of that.

 

But enough about this - we've got tanks to kill.