Major setback (2d pit)

[Davis0079]

I dont want to scream"epic fail", but I feel the su-25 2d cockpit is very sad. In a world that is moving to all 3d crap, how do you justify doing that.

 

To start things, I'd like to say that I've owed dcs-bs since the begining. I love it alot, even though its a rusian piece of shit, the game is awesome.

 

But with the dcs world, I cant believe that you have a 2d non clickable cockpit. I kinda get the fact that building a 3d clickable cockpit for a aircraft you have had ingame for many years is kinda backtracking. But, HOLY CRIST, even falcon4 bms has dropped the 2d shit.

 

Listen, its hard enough to learn the aircraft cuz of how realalistic you guys are making them. But to have to learn that ctrl/alt/shft R turns on the radar I just spent 10 hours to learn how to use is just to much. Clickable cockpits are the way of the future (and the way of the past). Plz get your shit together and stop with crap like that. The only reason most ppl move to DCS sims is the fact that your last couple of games have been top of the line. But if you think that by giving a free aircraft with old crappy non clickable cockpits is going to get you any customers. I will say flat out, "I think your wrong".

 

Now i understand that its just a filler ac, and its free. But what the hell. I play dcs bs for the clickability. I dont have to learn the instruments and the keybinding, just the instruments. Thats why dcs a-10 was such a hit. Ppl moved from Lomac fc2 to the same ac, but without all the unnessesary crap cuz you when all out on the playablility (clickable cockpits).

 

I know I come off very strong.I would like to say I am a faithful fan. But slimming down the ac (fc2 no longer compatible with a-10 and bs) and releasing more 2d crap (in a 3d world) is just going the wrong way.

 

I hope you have grand plans for the future. I cant wait to move from BS2 to DCS World in my BS. But till then a 2d su-25 pit that I have to memorize 300 keybinds for cuz you dont want to go all out,...well, I'm just not going to do it....I dont think that your plans....I think you just did it to give new ppl something to do.....but...idk....

 

just venting my opinion...not trying to talk to much trash, just hate 2d pits, if I wanted that I would go play....idk...everyone are doing 3d pits nowofdays....even falcon4 has full clickable 3d pits with the BMS addon....

 

Having said all that plz keep up the hard work, the DCS series is the best combat sim to date (was alot better when all the planes from FC2 were included in the MP compatibility). And plz make a AH-1 or AH-64 game for us helo sim guys. The KA-50 is a piece of crap (kinda what makes the game fun). But us good ol' american boy cant wait for the day we get a DCS chopper. Hell even a cobra with tow missiles would kick the hell out of a ka-50.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Davis0079

[Grimes]

FC2 is getting upgraded to FC3 which will be part of DCS World, but it still not DCS.

 

(Un)fortunately, depending on how you view it, the FC aircraft won't likely be given 3D cockpits with full click-ability. The idea, as I understand it, is that you have 2 very different levels of simulation for aircraft FM and avionics available within the same game world, but they are still 2 different product sets.

 

DCS is for the full realism, cool 3d cockpits, all the push buttons you could desire. While FC has everything simplified, but it can play with DCS, yet just not play LIKE DCS.

 

The Su-27 (actually a Su-25T) you mention in your post is still just a direct port from FC2, of which the aircraft itself has always had a better Flight Model from the rest of the the Lock-On aircraft.

[Sel94]

They just imported the 25t from FC2 to DCS, it is simply a small bonus for playing DCS, it's not meant to be a new project as bringing it to DCS quality would take a lot of work. I think it is nice that they put it in, as we can finally have real pilots fly SEAD.

[Opoch]

Yea, the 25T is not a DCS aircraft and never will be. And they did just do it to give new people something to do. Think of the DCS world download like a demo, the 25T is the demo airplane. Not DCS standards by a long-shot, but with an advanced flight model and the whole rest of the DCS world at your disposal. If nothing else then just view the 2d pit as a way to get folks to pony up the cash to move on from the demo and buy an actual DCS module.

 

And uh, the 25T has no radar.... but at least it has an RWR, right?

[Weta43]

And uh, the 25T has no radar

 

Yes, but the reply to that is you should remember to never let little things like a lack of information or the the facts get in the way of a good enraged rant about the poor quality of the free gift you've just been given...

[Kuky]

You didn't quite get that correct, it seems. :doh:

 

Yes, but the reply to that is you should remember to never let little things like a lack of information or the the facts get in the way of a good enraged rant about the poor quality of the free gift you've just been given...

 

"Epic Fail" first post. Good grief.

 

Yes, yes and yes :D

[WarthogSmurf]

Well it is semi 3d because you can look around. But being it the free and demo version for dcs world dont expect it to be the quality and lvl of that of A-10C/KA-50 and P-51D

 

Besides that I kinda do think it deserves a upgrade towards a real DCS as counterpart of the A-10C

[Weta43]

Su-25SM would be nice :-)

Can't see it though...

[ALDEGA]

Besides that I kinda do think it deserves a upgrade towards a real DCS as counterpart of the A-10C

Perhaps they will do so in the future ...

[TurboHog]

Ricardo's HD pit + 6DOF mod. (I keep saying this to everyone that hates the toad)

 

It's actually 3D when you start moving your head around. The switches, the HUD (also dissappears when you move to the left or right too much). It's 3D as far as I can tell. Seriously, with the mods mentioned above, it looks better than the A10C or Shark pit. Textures are sharper and it's 3D enough. Yes, even objects that can't be seen from the 2DOF position are textured... If that doesn't prove that it is a 3D pit then kill me...

 

The modding community is great, so take your advantage...

 

>> 6DOF mod

>> HD Cockpit textures

 

Good luck!

 

Edit:

 

I took a closer look at the systems, switches and objects in the pit and many are 2D indeed. It's not disturbing and there are actually 3D objects like the TV-screen, which has textures on top of it. You cant see those without the 6DOF mod. So, as someone already said: it's semi 3D. Imho not a notable setback.

Edited May 5, 2012 by TurboHog

[Panzertard]

Gents, give the OP a time to settle, please be respectful.

Please treat others as you be expecting others to treat yourselves. ;)

 

It's quite possible to reply back in respectful manner.

I've cleaned out a few instigators - the rest of the quality posts remain. No warns issued.

Cheers. o7

 

Davis, welcome to the forums.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Panzertard

[Davis0079]

just saying if that su-25 came with a brandnew 3d pit....you all would have eaten it up....dont think anyone can argue with that....2d pit=no one cares....

[Panzertard]

just saying if that su-25 came with a brandnew 3d pit....you all would have eaten it up....dont think anyone can argue with that....2d pit=no one cares....

 

Yes, but that probably means quite a few manhours (weeks of production, testing & QA) - and those certainly aren't for free.

However - reusing the standard product from FC2 and upgrading to fit into the world it is quite cheap in labor terms.

The net result is that you & I get a free flyable - as opposed to 'you need to buy this DCS world upgrade to get a cheap flyable. No freebies'.

 

If one wants the full quality - then you have the remaining DCS series, which is intended to cover just that requirement.

But then again, it's just my opinion - not to be confused with ED's opinion. ;)

[TurboHog]

just saying if that su-25 came with a brandnew 3d pit....you all would have eaten it up....dont think anyone can argue with that....2d pit=no one cares....

 

Semi-3D pit!

 

Stick is 3D, Skhval tv is 3D, throttle is 3D, space behind HUD is 3D, operational switches are 3D (and animated) etc. etc.

 

I would like to hear your opinion after downloading and using the HD pit and the 6DOF mod.

 

This thread also contains the links...

[Panzertard]

Thats a protip, turbo. Thank you.

[Boberro]

Perhaps there will be someone skilled who would make full 3D cockpit of 25T. Great Su-25A has already been done by member of the forum (OnePride):

Su-25T is mostly similar to 25A cockpit, add TV, move RWR (add perhaps Pastel, Kopyo if needed for T\TM version), change some dials, and so on... voila.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2012 by Boberro

[lanmancz]

I agree with the OP. I love DCS, got all DCS sims so far (and will buy more). But I never liked LockOn. The thing I hated about it is exacly why I love DCS and what the OP is saying - non-interractive ugly 2d cockpit. I hated that I had to learn hundreds of key bindings + the instruments themselves. What I love about DCS is that I can set only few most important keys and do the rest with the mouse. If I want to push a button I can quickly click it and I don't have to remember that its shortcut is CTRL+SHIFT+T (whatever that is). That's the reason why I'd never buy FC. DCS is a way to go for me. 3D interactive cockpit upgrade for the Toad would be great though.

 

edit : I will try the HD pit, it's true that it looks nicer on the screenshots posted here.

Edited May 5, 2012 by lanmancz

[Nate--IRL--]

Hmm I suppose for a free aircraft the most you could ever hope for is a 3d non-clickable pit. Click-ability being a selling point for other modules. But that isn't on the horizon either.

 

Nate

[Rusty_M]

just saying if that su-25 came with a brandnew 3d pit....you all would have eaten it up....dont think anyone can argue with that....2d pit=no one cares....

 

Although I disagree with most of the points in your original post, this is true with the caveat that we'd have eaten it up were it improved to the level of DCS modules rather than FC modules.

 

I think 2 proverbs apply to this SU25T:

 

"Don't look a gift-horse in the mouth"

"You get what you pay for" (in this case, not strictly true, as we got more).

 

Edit: Also, nobody's forcing you to play in the SU25T. If you've got the DCS modules, enjoy them. I know I am. I don't know if I'll ever bother with the SU25T, but it's nice that it's there if I want to dabble.

[TurboHog]

I agree with the OP. I love DCS, got all DCS sims so far (and will buy more). But I never liked LockOn. The thing I hated about it is exacly why I love DCS and what the OP is saying - non-interractive ugly 2d cockpit. I hated that I had to learn hundreds of key bindings + the instruments themselves. What I love about DCS is that I can set only few most important keys and do the rest with the mouse. If I want to push a button I can quickly click it and I don't have to remember that its shortcut is CTRL+SHIFT+T (whatever that is). That's the reason why I'd never buy FC. DCS is a way to go for me. 3D interactive cockpit upgrade for the Toad would be great though.

 

edit : I will try the HD pit, it's true that it looks nicer on the screenshots posted here.

 

You have a point there about the buttons and clickability...

 

On the other hand, there are almost more HOTAS buttons to remember for the A10C than there are available functions in the Su25 :lol:

[Pikey]

Although the post only really starts at post #16, I wonder is the 25t a hint that the cockpits are able to be modded by the community? Or was it just the gift I took it as and had no more intent than that?

 

I recall a child on his birthday once get given £10 by the familys cleaner. These guys were really rich, this was back in the 80's when i was young. The kid said, "Is that all?" Rather than thank-you. But to be fair he was 8 or 9 and as it happens had AHD or autism so maybe he was just being honest about his feelings and we should understand that.

[Pikey]

I lie, the post starts at 14, the Ricardo HD cockpit and 6DOF workaround took about 5 mins and looks great!

[Opoch]

You have a point there about the buttons and clickability...

 

On the other hand, there are almost more HOTAS buttons to remember for the A10C than there are available functions in the Su25 :lol:

 

 

And it's a damn nightmare when you don't actually have said HOTAS.

[DayGlow]

I personally won't disparage a free gift myself.

[macedk]

you guys gave me scare....thought somthing was wrong...carry on.