Fire angle of Vikhr is wrong?

[Tailgate]

Same here Nate, Su-25T testing yesterday and all my vikhr shots were perfectly aligning, unlike in 1.1.2.1 where you'd have to raise your nose more to aim the shot.

 

Just curious which version you are testing?

[Nate--IRL--]

Just curious which version you are testing?

 

The Testers build.

 

Nate

[Boberro]

I hope it's been really fixed and you can have your target at the edge of circle and it will still guide a missile to it.

[Nate--IRL--]

AFAIK it isn't fixed yet.

 

Nate

[159th_Viper]

I hope it's been really fixed and you can have your target at the edge of circle and it will still guide a missile to it.

 

Before or after launch? Ideally you would not want your target offset prior to launch - after is a different story though. I'll check with latest build but to date I have not yet experienced the issues, apart from intentionally via throttle input, that is.

[Capt_Haddock]

I tried keeping the target on the lower half of the aiming circle, and still no luck.

 

I guess I'll have to go Back to BS2 and FC2 until it gets fixed... Thanks anyway for the suggestions!

[Nate--IRL--]

OK now that's something new - could I get a quick track of that?

 

Nate

[Capt_Haddock]

Here you go. Track attached.

First Vikhr hits the water. Second hits the target. Both aiming on the lower part of the reticle.

 

Thanks for looking at this!

Vikhr test 01.trk

[Nate--IRL--]

Thanks - that is a slightly different problem to the one I had. I'll add it to the report.

 

EDIT:- Maybe this corresponds to what you are seeing Viper?

 

Nate

[159th_Viper]

I'll have a look. Which version did you use to record the track?

[Nate--IRL--]

I'll have a look. Which version did you use to record the track?

 

Seems to play back correctly, as he described, in Universal.

 

Nate

[159th_Viper]

Ta :)

[159th_Viper]

Here you go. Track attached.

First Vikhr hits the water. Second hits the target. Both aiming on the lower part of the reticle.

 

Thanks for looking at this!

 

OK - regarding your track:

 

To satisfy launch parameters you need to lock the target and place the Target Marker (small circle) inside the Missile Launch Zone reticle (large circle) and then launch when prompted. You further need to keep the Target Marker in the MLZR whilst the missile tracks to target. You do not do so in your track - herewith a HUD picture of your first launch:

 

 

See how the MLZR is not aligned with the Target Marker, causing the missile to go dumb. In substantiation, herewith your track where I took control after you ground-stabilized the Shkval:

 

Vikhr test 01 control.trk

 

Successful impact at first launch by keeping alignment as explained above.

 

Now whether the necessity to keep the Target Marker within the MLZR is an intended feature or not is the next question. At first glance I would submit that it is as that is necessary to obtain and satisfy launch parameters to begin with, so it stands to reason that it should be maintained to impact.

 

The above last paragraph is however an educated guess only. I'll see what I can dig up and get back to you. At present however adhere to the above advice and your Vikhrs will hit every time (at least they do for me and I have spent the afternoon tinkering with them and can only get them to miss intentionally).

[Nate--IRL--]

Now whether the necessity to keep the Target Marker within the MLZR is an intended feature or not is the next question. At first glance I would submit that it is as that is necessary to obtain and satisfy launch parameters to begin with, so it stands to reason that it should be maintained to impact.

 

I would be of the other opinion and contend that it is only required for successful launch parameters, but not for maintaining guidance for the flight phase. That said, that also is supposition on my part.

 

Nate

[159th_Viper]

I would be of the other opinion and contend that it is only required for successful launch parameters, but not for maintaining guidance for the flight phase. That said, that also is supposition on my part.

 

Nate

 

I'd be satisfied with somewhere in-between. In the track the departure from launch parameters to nose-high was pretty sudden, which when coupled with altitude at launch, might explain the loss of track. I did not test a more gradual separation of Target Marker and MLZR - I'll test more with the latest builds in the morrow.

[sobek]

Hmm, Nate, think about it, when you don't fly towards the target any more, the beam starts to move relative to the missile. If that movement gets too fast for the missile to correct, it will fall out of the beam. The movement of the beam relative to the missile is fastest just after launch and gets less pronounced as the missile rides down towards the target, so i would assume that it is relatively vital to keep steady right after launch.

[Nate--IRL--]

Hmm, Nate, think about it, when you don't fly towards the target any more, the beam starts to move relative to the missile. If that movement gets too fast for the missile to correct, it will fall out of the beam. The movement of the beam relative to the missile is fastest just after launch and gets less pronounced as the missile rides down towards the target, so i would assume that it is relatively vital to keep steady right after launch.

 

That does sound plausible. If it is an intended feature that's ok - however is it new and undocumented if it is a feature, and with the other problem at the top half of the MLZR leads me to think it is a bug.

 

Nate

[159th_Viper]

Hmm, Nate, think about it, when you don't fly towards the target any more, the beam starts to move relative to the missile. If that movement gets too fast for the missile to correct, it will fall out of the beam. The movement of the beam relative to the missile is fastest just after launch and gets less pronounced as the missile rides down towards the target, so i would assume that it is relatively vital to keep steady right after launch.

 

Yes.

 

Herewith a quick test of launch and manoeuvre. Depending on the nature and extent of my post-launch manoeuvring, I can cause the missile to miss, alternatively hit. In any event, it is possible to manoeuvre the Target Marker out of the MLZR as illustrated with these screen captures:

 

 

 

 

So it would seem that at the end of the day it's all about the attitude of the aircraft from launch to impact. Whether this is at present too 'sensitive', for lack of a better word, is debatable.

[Nate--IRL--]

Reproduced it just now with the target dead centre throughout. So bang goes that theory.

 

Nate

62866 - Vikhr + cooling..trk

[gunterlund21]

this is interesting. It really makes the su vulnerable to ground fire if you have to stay on precisely all the way to the target. That means a relatively slow approach at high angle to be successful? Pry there are no SAM's in the area.

[Boberro]

If you move plane up just after missile's launch it has right to be out of laser grid. That is fine and correct so far.

 

Sometimes flying slow with flaps on (max setting) and nose up my missile went straight line. Just pararell to the flyng course and alt. I was flying steady with 0 meters up\down.

 

I am not able to specify what difference between correct line of flight and real line of launch was but I could say about 1.5 cm (max 2) from the bottom circle curve.

That surely is not right.

 

Other day I was happily flying to the poor Shilka when my vikhr immadietly went down. I am not saying it didn't catch laser beam - it just went down similar way as heat missiles are used to do now ie. R-60, R-73.

 

I could have had track but it was a some time ago when I had more time for flying :)

[Nate--IRL--]

If you move plane up just after missile's launch it has right to be out of laser grid. That is fine and correct so far.

 

Sadly it can go ballistic even if you keep the pipper is dead centre. See my track above. I don't think the need to keep the Plane dead stable is a feature, but rather is a method to exaggerate a bug with the guidance mechanism.

 

Nate

[Paganus]

This is all anecdotal and based only on my experience, but I'm going to post it here anyway.

 

From flying the campaign I also have felt the behavior of the Vikhr has changed from FC2 to World. I have been loosing a lot of missiles that just seem to fall off the beam and nose dive.

 

For a test I tossed together a .miz with 1 toad and 16 targets. From range, at altitude, and speed, I have gone 16 for 16 hits, all 3 times I've flown it.

 

This leads me to believe the behavior differences we pilots keep seeing and trying to report has to do with low level, low angle, slower speed attack runs.

[Joe Johnson]

I too noticed that problem when flying slow...

[159th_Viper]

Pry there are no SAM's in the area.

 

There are no excuses if you are hit by a SAM in a Toad. With ARM's and careful target-engagement doctrine you'll be safe as houses.

 

You have a Phanta pod - use it :)