Constantly rolling to one side?

[Corrigan]

No, I think he means that a HOTAS should be recommended hardware, much in the same way as you would recommend a minimum amount of RAM etc.

[Nate--IRL--]

Ah sorry - yes that makes sense.

 

Nate

[Ghoullees]

I've expreienced this incessant rolling let and right, with a balanced loadout a couple of times. The first time was due to Autopilot throwing off the trim, which could be corrected.

 

However severl times since, I have taken of, done a few maneuvres and then CANNOT trim out the roll left or right. It happens maybe once in 5 missions, quite irritating.

 

Has there been any closure on this?

 

Cheers.

[159th_Viper]

 

Has there been any closure on this?

 

There appears to be no problem attributable to the SIM. In the absence of a track illustrating possible problems/issues, no further investigation is warranted at this stage.

Btw I think there is a frog auto pilot bug where after disengaging, the joystick axes get "uncentered". I don't think autopilot trim is the issue because this only randomly happens. Going to level auto pilot, leveling out, then disengaging sort of fixes it but not nicely centered. In the real frog, doesn't disengaging autopilot return all control services to neutral if joystick is centered?

Edited July 26, 2012 by <((((><

[RagnarDa]

I've expreienced this incessant rolling let and right, with a balanced loadout a couple of times. The first time was due to Autopilot throwing off the trim, which could be corrected.

 

However severl times since, I have taken of, done a few maneuvres and then CANNOT trim out the roll left or right. It happens maybe once in 5 missions, quite irritating.

 

Has there been any closure on this?

 

Cheers.

 

+ 1

This happened to me yesterday in a online flight and the reason I've read this thread (+ I wondered why that guy got banned). I can post the track but it's a long one, probably around 2 hrs and it happened at the very end after a refuel/reload stop. What happened is whenever I engaged the autopilot (route follow, attitude hold or level flight) the plane banked quite hard right. If it was uneven load the AP should've been able to compensate and I looked at the plane from outside to see damage but didn't find any. The Level Flight AP eventually flew me into the ground from 2000 m alt while I was F2-ing around.

 

Edit: I did try trimming manually, didn't work. Not sure it was mapped correctly though, have to check.

Edited July 26, 2012 by RagnarDa

[Novum]

Never seen this, but i seldom use the AP.

[Weta43]

Out of curiosity, unplug our joystick, do a runway start and watch the stick in cockpit as you un-pause the game. Notice anything ?

[Wolverine]

Btw I think there is a frog auto pilot bug where after disengaging' date=' the joystick axes get "uncentered". I don't think autopilot trim is the issue because this only randomly happens. Going to level auto pilot, leveling out, then disengaging sort of fixes it but not nicely centered. In the real frog, doesn't disengaging autopilot return all control services to neutral if joystick is centered?[/quote']

 

Short answer - No

 

Long answer, The autopilot uses trim to fly the plane in the desired way (route following, altitude etc). When the autopilot is disengaged the trim does not reset to neutral. It stays exactly where it was when the autopilot was disengaged and if memory serves me right, this is exactly how it is in the real frog.

[RagnarDa]

Out of curiosity, unplug our joystick, do a runway start and watch the stick in cockpit as you un-pause the game. Notice anything ?

 

Thanks, I will try it out. I do have Saitek X-36 from 1998 so that might have something to do with it though I doubt it because the plane only started rolling when the AP was engaged, not when it wasn't. And just in case it comes up I do understand how the AP uses the trim and not the normal flight control. I am using the AP all the time and what happened on that flight never happened before (in the 100+ hours I had in the Toad).

Short answer - No

 

Long answer, The autopilot uses trim to fly the plane in the desired way (route following, altitude etc). When the autopilot is disengaged the trim does not reset to neutral. It stays exactly where it was when the autopilot was disengaged and if memory serves me right, this is exactly how it is in the real frog.

 

This may be true but trim should go to netral when joystick is back in neutral position I wouldn think. Why should autopilot "uncenter" the joystick even when joystick is in center position? Control surfaces should go to neutral when joystick is in neutral position otherwise I think many frog pilots would have died because of this in real life.

Ok, so I opened a ticket with ED. Hope they will fix this.

[Tailgate]

I believe in FC2 there were several AP modes and if I recall, once you enter one of those submodes, the Master AP key doesn't automatically turn it off, I think you had to hit a different key to disengage (maybe KP9?), This is from memory, but perhaps this is part of the issue, that a submode has been engaged. I believe there are several "mode" lights on the left console, make sure none of them are lit.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Tailgate

[BONESLR1]

This may be true but trim should go to netral when joystick is back in neutral position I wouldn think. Why should autopilot "uncenter" the joystick even when joystick is in center position? Control surfaces should go to neutral when joystick is in neutral position otherwise I think many frog pilots would have died because of this in real life.

 

No. Trims are separate adjustment trim wheels to the ailerons, elevators and rudder. Also can be assigned on the stick side of the Warthog controller. It is a basic of flight to trim correctly once the bird is airborne as loadouts can chg the CG. Autopilots don't adjust trims they make fine adjustments to regular flight controls based on steer direction, altitude, speed.

[Nate--IRL--]

No. Trims are separate adjustment trim wheels to the ailerons, elevators and rudder. Also can be assigned on the stick side of the Warthog controller. It is a basic of flight to trim correctly once the bird is airborne as loadouts can chg the CG. Autopilots don't adjust trims they make fine adjustments to regular flight controls based on steer direction, altitude, speed.

 

Not so in the Su-25T - the AP controls the trim.

 

Nate

Not so in the Su-25T - the AP controls the trim.

 

Nate

 

Yep. I think the bug is that the joystick axes get out of synch with the control surfaces once autopilot is disengaged.

[PeterP]

Guys- I tell you what and I'm serious:

 

The whole AP and trim "issue" some of you are describing is a no-brainier when you have a FFB stick in your hands.

 

...Think about it when telling that something is wrong with the simulation...

 

:)

Edited July 27, 2012 by PeterP

[159th_Viper]

This may be true but trim should go to netral when joystick is back in neutral position I wouldn think. Why should autopilot "uncenter" the joystick even when joystick is in center position? Control surfaces should go to neutral when joystick is in neutral position otherwise I think many frog pilots would have died because of this in real life.

 

And how do you think the joystick gets to the neutral position?

 

Do not confuse your flightstick on your desk with the flightstick in-cockpit: The only way that flightstick in-cockpit is getting back to neutral is when you physically trim it back to neutral, hence the trim tab lights in the cockpit - trim back until they are green again. The control surfaces/flightstick do/does not magically return to neutral.

Guys- I tell you what and I'm serious:

 

The whole AP and trim "issue" some of you are describing is a no-brainier when you have a FFB stick in your hands.

 

...Think about it when telling that something is wrong with the simulation...

 

:)

 

Issue also happens with FFB disabled. Either way, control surfaces should be in synch with joystick axes when AP is disabled I think.

[PeterP]

Tell that Suchoi !

:)

 

The AP of the Su-25 works by controlling the trim.

-point!-

 

As I told: FFB= no-brainier - You feel/see where your stick is facing. - as in real.

 

 

EDIT:

Example for the A-10:

(sorry, but you all really don't know what you are missing!:P I don't want to start mentioning the FFB of the P-51d....I never want to touch a "dead" stick again!

reminder : this thread has been opened because someone with a X-box controller had difficulties to control the plane ;))

 

There is no know logic how to simulate this without FFB - as viper asked:

How does the plane know that you are not fine with the given flight-path?

 

(please don't answer - this question was rhetorical)

 

:)

 

Short: You need the proper tool for the job.

And flight-simming is asking for FFB.

 

Another rhetorical question:

 

Would you enjoy a racing-sim without a FFB-Wheel??!

...you would probably stand up and say "Nah! This car-sim is rubbish!"... I too!

 

 

Short example : I never was able to do a complete Air-to-Air refuelling before having a FFBstick ... after this I made it on the first try, and it was rather easy. - because I always knew how I'm trimmed without have to look.

Edited July 27, 2012 by PeterP

[speckfire]

Jeebus Peter are you doing a PHD in DCS-A10C? That's impressive !!!

The only way that flightstick in-cockpit is getting back to neutral is when you physically trim it back to neutral, hence the trim tab lights in the cockpit - trim back until they are green again. The control surfaces/flightstick do/does not magically return to neutral.

 

 

So you are saying pilots of real frogs need to "physically trim back to neutral" after disengaging AP? If so, that's end of this thread. If not, then it would be great for ED to fix this.

[Ironhand]

Issue also happens with FFB disabled. Either way' date=' control surfaces should be in synch with joystick axes when AP is disabled I think.[/quote']

:) They are in synch with the stick axes in the cockpit, just not the joystick on your computer desk. Trim doesn't magically happen. The 25T's "trim" is adjusting the same control surfaces the stick is attached to. Altering the trim alters the position of the joystick. ED even models this in the -25T. Manually adjust the trim while sitting on the ground and watch the joystick (the one on the screen). You'll see it move in correlation to the trim you input...and stay there.

 

The autopilot is controlling those same surfaces through the trim and, hence, the stick. When disengaged, it simply stops making adjustments. You will inherit the trim you have, when you disengage it. That's why it's best to disengage it after engaging the level flight setting. That way you will be trimmed for ... level flight given your weight and altitude.

 

My 2 cents.

 

 

Rich

..... hence the trim tab lights in the cockpit - trim back until they are green again.

 

Btw - where exactly are these "trim tab lights" located?

 

I found them. Thanks. Still would like to know if real frog pilots had to "trim back to neutral" after disengaging AP or not. I would think they just moved their stick back to center postition to get neutral control surfaces. Could be wrong but I guess that's what a study sim is all about :)

Edited July 28, 2012 by <((((><
Found them.

[159th_Viper]

...Still would like to know if real frog pilots had to "trim back to neutral" after disengaging AP or not. I would think they just moved their stick back to center postition to get neutral control surfaces.

 

They do :)

 

Read what Rich said above - what he has forgot about the Grach and the Toad most of us still have to learn :D

 

And by the by, disengaging AP in the Toad is not simply hitting the AP input key. Ignoring for a moment the eight/nine (?) or so Autopilot modes, irrespective of which mode you are in, disengaging AP is LAlt-9 as opposed to the default A (?) key. I seem to recall that pressing the A key, as opposed to the correct key, to disengage, leads to sometimes 'interesting' results to say the least.