rolling and pitching violently for no reason

[Pyroflash]

The aircraft rolls this way because of excessive force (torque, P-factor, and spiraling slipstream) that is encountered at low AoA and low airspeeds. It does not do so because of the wind. Having gone to Airventure, surely you have heard the P-51 up close? Surely you have seen that massive Rolls Royce Merlin engine, and even FELT the crackling power when it is taxiing? I have, one did an engine run up not six feet away from where I was standing. Unless you are talking about the reproduction scale mustangs they also have at Airventure every year. Then yes, I can indeed see where you are coming from.

 

 

i guess so.. but then again,that doesnt answer my question about the tail locking. :( i gotta airshow too, http://www.airventure.org/

so instead of bashing heads in,perhaps you could try and help me with the game,instead of trying to one up me?

 

No, I think you are misunderstanding. TFC (The Fighter Collection) are the owners, and producers of Eagle Dynamics products, including DCS.

 

http://www.fighter-collection.com/

 

http://www.fighter-collection.com/flightsimshop-world.html

 

Notice who's products are for sale on their website?

 

ED has direct access to P-51 capabilities and performance, as well as similarly direct access to the pilots who fly them. Stop judging the game based on your own misconceptions and start judging your own skill.

[Soulres]

No - did you not read what I said? Your tailwheel is locked when you are attempting to take off. You never unlocked the tailwheel with the first track. In any event, try it: Spawn in on a runway start, leave your elevators alone, attempt a takeoff and post the track - I am interested to witness the results.

stick forwords = unlock,StickBackwords = Lock. heres the results, dont mind the stall crashes,but the last landing was pretty good being my 3rd attempt in the P51 :pilotfly: the plane still wiggles around abit but now its normal,instead of glider in a blizzard! :megalol:

 

The air.

please take this to the off-topic thread,ill argue with you there,but! right now im figureing out why the plane was acting that way due to the tailwheel being unlocked during take off dont spam my thread cause im actully trying to get some help with taking this thing in the air you posting and adding more babble doesnt help my case, side note i wast here in 2010 when the 2 p51's nicked wings and the blue one flipped

ThanksStuntie!.trk

Edited September 12, 2012 by Soulres

[Soulres]

:blank:

[159th_Viper]

Phew well I'm Jolly glad that's over then........glad you're sorted :thumbup:

[Soulres]

Phew well I'm Jolly glad that's over then........glad you're sorted :thumbup:

Not bad for a Xbox controller huh? :lol:

[159th_Viper]

Not bad for a Xbox controller huh? :lol:

 

I wouldn't consider that coordinated flight but hey, as long as you're happy.

[Pyroflash]

Yep, good job, but remember that there is always room for improvement, and as a long standing member, if you are asking for advice, I would take it from most people here (especially veteran members and mods). Except if it is advice on which aircraft is better. You will have differing opinions from Spica as far as this forum goes.

[Soulres]

I wouldn't consider that coordinated flight but hey, as long as you're happy.

i wouldnt call this a helpful community but one person (stuntie) helped,so im happy :lol:

Yep, good job, but remember that there is always room for improvement, and as a long standing member, if you are asking for advice, I would take it from most people here (especially veteran members and mods). Except if it is advice on which aircraft is better. You will have differing opinions from Spica as far as this forum goes.

no one on this game flies perfectly,(no one noticed my tailwheel was unlocked in my track) >.> and as for diffrent planes,P51D wasnt the only one to shoot down the Messerschmidt 109(the jet one) its all dependent on the pilot.:pilotfly: Edited September 12, 2012 by Soulres

[Pyroflash]

You mean 262? The Me-109 was the German fighter used through most of the war. And you are right, no one does fly perfectly, that's why it is always nice to receive advice from people who have been flying a lot longer. Flying Spaghetti Monster knows that I needed help when I started. In fact, I waited far too long to get the help I needed, and now I am spending my time trying to make up for all of the bad habits that I have taught myself. Really, if you want to fly well, I would suggest joining a squadron, or at the very least hanging out with them. There are probably a few P-51D squadrons cropping up around here.

 

Also lots of people tried to help you, so don't blame it on the community please. They are (and have been for as long as I can remember) extremely helpful. However certain members can be a bit abrasive in their tone, but this does not mean that they aren't trying to help.

 

P.S. my previous comment about not asking which plane is better was a joke. Both Russian and American pilots on this forum are extremely fanatical about the aircraft they fly, and any attempt to dissuade them usually results in some argument or another.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Pyroflash

[Soulres]

<For Those who said> " you cant do it " watch the track> im still practicing landings :pilotfly:

Y

Also lots of people tried to help you, so don't blame it on the community please. They are (and have been for as long as I can remember) extremely helpful. However certain members can be a bit abrasive in their tone, but this does not mean that they aren't trying to help.

Really?.

 

Originally Posted by Soulres

....this plane is just very hard to control, i cant stop to do anythign with it,its like flying in a hurricane,minus the wind!

 

No it's not - you just need to do what I told you and get a feel for the plane. Your throttle inputs were way over-the-top, causing the very behaviour you are complaining about. Have you tried a take-off as I recommended?

 

There is also a good reason why the real plane is piloted by using a Flightstick, Throttle and Rudder Pedals vs a Keyboard and XBox controller: You cannot adequately use said keyboard and XBox controller to do what needs done. That is the ONLY reason why I can take off without any problems and why you cannot.

 

Try as you might, you are not going to drive a nail into a 2x4 with a banana........trust me, give it up.

Funny thing.

You are the only one complaining about it, and still thinks that the producers made it wrong.

 

Are you just ignoring everything people are telling you? Real life pilots say that this plane is one of the hardest things to fly. It IS wobbeling like crazy and it DOESNT want to fly straight.

 

After reading some other posts and threads by the OP, I can see that this is a futile discussion.Later.

You misunderstand me. I am telling you that your keyboard and XBox controller are not accurate enough to provide the inputs necessary to fly the Mustang. Forget about the A10 or whatever else you fly - I am telling you that your tools are inferior for the job you are attempting

 

TFC\ED\DCS own a P-51 and fly it.

 

I see only one that looks stupid - all other posters are just trying to help you.

 

OK - I'll give you one last chance: Knowing that the SIM is fine and that your controller limitations and lack of practice leading are to your issues experienced, is there anything else that needs clarifying?

 

I tried it also with a game-pad.

I'm also not able to fly the P-51 as I'm used to do.*

 

So now lets look at the one person who actully helped.

 

Just watched you new track.

You almost have it.

Which is impressive with an XBox controller. As good as I did with a fancy joystick.

 

All you need to do is pull back a bit on the stick at the start of the take-off run to lock tailwheel steering, and to do the same on landing. This will help limit the swerving and help prevent the ground loop on landing.

 

It took SIX PAGES to figure out it was because the tailwheel wasnt locking. SIX PAGES!There is afew people who know how to help others,then theirs abunch that refuse to and talk down upon those who need it.I am currently flying perfectly now im practing landings and take off's with 2 hours of phisical gameplay under my belt with a xbox controller and keyboard.

 

Thank you Stuntie for being a helpful forum Member.

cant be done.trk

Edited September 13, 2012 by Soulres

[Pyroflash]

No it's not - you just need to do what I told you and get a feel for the plane. Your throttle inputs were way over-the-top, causing the very behaviour you are complaining about. Have you tried a take-off as I recommended?

 

This was actually helpful information.

There is also a good reason why the real plane is piloted by using a Flightstick, Throttle and Rudder Pedals vs a Keyboard and XBox controller: You cannot adequately use said keyboard and XBox controller to do what needs done. That is the ONLY reason why I can take off without any problems and why you cannot.

semi-helpful, The X-box axis do not have the range of motion required, at the level of precision required to perform complex maneuvers easily. You can still do them, but they won't be anywhere near as precise, and they will take a lot more training, time, and effort to accomplish.

 

Try as you might, you are not going to drive a nail into a 2x4 with a banana........trust me, give it up.

Remember that abrasive side I was telling you about?

 

 

Funny thing.

You are the only one complaining about it,

and still thinks that the producers made it wrong.

Yes, you made an incorrect supposition about the flight model of the aircraft, and failed to provide any substantial evidence or experience relevant to the matter.

 

Are you just ignoring everything people are telling you? Real life pilots say that this plane is one of the hardest things to fly. It IS wobbeling like crazy and it DOESNT want to fly straight.

Again, you were criticizing the flight model of the pony at this point, and the correction was to tell you that it was something you were doing wrong, not the aircraft.

 

After reading some other posts and threads by the OP, I can see that this is a futile discussion.Later.

Yeah, I'll agree, this attitude was pretty uncalled for. But then again, you are being ostentatious

 

You misunderstand me. I am telling you that your keyboard and XBox controller are not accurate enough to provide the inputs necessary to fly the Mustang. Forget about the A10 or whatever else you fly - I am telling you that your tools are inferior for the job you are attempting

"Semi-helpful, The X-box axis do not have the range of motion required, at the level of precision required to perform complex maneuvers easily. You can still do them, but they won't be anywhere near as precise, and they will take a lot more training, time, and effort to accomplish."

 

Though this statement was a little more aggravated than the last on this matter.

 

TFC\ED\DCS own a P-51 and fly it.

They do, actually. They used to own two, but sold one some years back.

 

I see only one that looks stupid - all other posters are just trying to help you.

Although name-calling is kind of uncalled for, he is right. Most people posting in this thread were trying to help you.

 

OK - I'll give you one last chance: Knowing that the SIM is fine and that your controller limitations and lack of practice leading are to your issues experienced

, is there anything else that needs clarifying?

You will agree that it was your lack of experience that led to the original problem, regardless of what that problem actually was. You will hopefully also admit that your controller is pretty inferior when compared to full HOTAS setups.

 

I tried it also with a game-pad.

I'm also not able to fly the P-51 as I'm used to do.*

personal experience from this guy recommending that you get a stick. I see no belligerence here.

 

There is afew people who know how to help others,then theirs abunch that refuse to and talk down upon those who need it.I am currently flying perfectly now im practing landings and take off's with 2 hours of phisical gameplay under my belt with a xbox controller and keyboard.

 

Thank you Stuntie for being a helpful forum Member.

There were only a few posts in this thread that could be seen as even remotely condescending.

 

Also labeling me for "spamming" your thread was kind of inconsiderate of you when you will see that I was only trying to provide useful information as to ED's and TFC's backgrounds.

 

My previous post of page 3 might be considered as spam, but it is just a bit of wit directed at Viper, whilst confirming that it IS possible to use an Xbox controller to fly, however unnecessarily difficult it may make it.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Pyroflash

[Soulres]

This was actually helpful information.

semi-helpful,

 

grandmothers often say " if you dont have anything nice to say,dont say it at all" i guess theirs didnt teach tehm that nothing they said described or helped my issue,it is meaningless most of the posts here, were only telling me that im wrong,and its just how the game is, get used to it.when infact everyone missed something that i now see as a DIRE requirement to take off! everyone just asumed! ED aswell.Troll Rule Number One - Dont Feed The Trolls "so i pluged my xbox controller in to see if it works and still nothing" welp thats all taht everyone focused on for 3 more pages then Soon as i meantioned the Tailwheel was unlocked everyone was like "....whoops..." even the mods were going so far as saying im wrong, their putting up stuff showing they own a p51,well whoopty doo,still dont know your own games training session about take off!all the mods did was troll my thread along with the rest of the trash that shouldnt be allowed to talk somewhere that helps people.Never ONCE did i say " bug or glitch " i asked if there was a fix,one user hinted at one,and that made me go "Ker-DOI!" and rethink what i knew about flight stick postions with the tailwheel.One Post fixed this, this is now SEVEN PAGES LONG OF JUST SPAM

Edited September 13, 2012 by Soulres

[Nate--IRL--]

grandmothers often say " if you dont have anything nice to say,dont say it at all" i guess theirs didnt teach tehm that nothing they said described or helped my issue,it is meaningless most of the posts here, were only telling me that im wrong,and its just how the game is, get used to it.when infact everyone missed something that i now see as a DIRE requirement to take off! everyone just asumed! ED aswell.Troll Rule Number One - Dont Feed The Trolls "so i pluged my xbox controller in to see if it works and still nothing" welp thats all taht everyone focused on for 3 more pages then Soon as i meantioned the Tailwheel was unlocked everyone was like "....whoops..." even the mods were going so far as saying im wrong, their putting up stuff showing they own a p51,well whoopty doo,still dont know your own games training session about take off!all the mods did was troll my thread along with the rest of the trash that shouldnt be allowed to talk somewhere that helps people.Never ONCE did i say " bug or glitch " i asked if there was a fix,one user hinted at one,and that made me go "Ker-DOI!" and rethink what i knew about flight stick postions with the tailwheel.One Post fixed this, this is now SEVEN PAGES LONG OF JUST SPAM

 

SEVEN PAGES LONG OF JUST SPAM because you didn't read the manual. Specifically Pgs 127 onward where it explains very clearly how to Taxi and Takeoff.

 

:P

 

Nate

[Echo38]

I wonder how many seconds one could last before pranging a real P-51 which had nothing more than a keyboard and X-Box controller in the cockpit. Groundloops, propstrikes, and blowouts, oh my!

[sobek]

Soulres, how are people supposed to identify a problem in your flying when you first present them with a track that does not illustrate said problem? You certainly can't blame the people trying to help you for that.

 

With that being said, step away from the name calling, further transgressions of forum rule 1.2 will be met with disciplinary action.

 

Additionally, i'd like you to submit to forum rule 4.6 and stop your extensive use of bold letters, you are raping everybodys eyes with it.

[Soulres]

track that does not With that being said, step away from the name calling.

Actually i did Sobek, that is how the user Stuntie saw what was happening,i did put up a track,mayby you didnt see it,now that i look at the track, its very obvious that the tailwheel wasnt locked,how could something so simple get out of control with the 2 mods that were in here acting so poorly?oh!

and if a forum mod from ED tells me "It cant be done with a xbox controlleR" was enjoyable to prove them wrong,make sure to give Stuntie Rep that he/she deserves cause the ED mods didnt do anything helpful at all,mayby next time they wont judge a problem by saying its my controller when i cna fly just as good :Pmayby pass around a cup of hot cocoa with bunny marshmellows to chill out the mods here,i got better help from youtube posters,

I wonder how many seconds one could last before pranging a real P-51 which had nothing more than a keyboard and X-Box controller in the cockpit. Groundloops, propstrikes, and blowouts, oh my!

proably not long,but then again niether would a plastic joystick thats off to your side with some plastic pedals at your desk with a TrackIR strapped to your head Edited September 13, 2012 by Soulres

[Echo38]

proably not long,but then again niether would a plastic joystick thats off to your side with some plastic pedals at your desk

 

While you are correct about simming equipment being much less precise than the real deal, it is nonetheless far more precise than a console controller. The difference in throw alone is enough to make a decent joystick approximately six times more precise than the twiddly thumb knob. There's a damn good reason nothing of value in the real world is controlled by inch-long control sticks--from construction equipment to spacecraft, you won't find valuable pieces of equipment being controlled by thumb sticks like a console controller has, because an inch of throw simply isn't enough for fine control. (I won't even start on binary switches like a keyboard key.)

 

A decent simming joystick and pedals are, while much worse than the real deal, sufficiently close in form and function that one can effortlessly adapt to the real aircraft controls. Indeed, it's the inverse which was a problem for me--flying real aircraft gave me no end of frustration with simming equipment. So, if you can fly a realistic simulation of a P-51 with plastic joystick and pedals, you could fly a real P-51 with much greater ease.* The same isn't true of using a keyboard, or even of using an inch-long, because those are so very different from the real thing--in addition to being many times more difficult than simming sticks (which themselves are many times more difficult than a real stick)--that one would require a much greater adjustment to the real aircraft controls.

 

Accusing the sim of being incorrectly modelled because you were trying to play it with keyboard alone was more than ridiculous, and the fact that you refuse to admit this (and deny having blamed the sim and its developers for your errors) indicates to me that my writing this post was absolutely a waste of time. (As does your dismissal of Pyroflash's attempt at explaining to you the effects of torque, gyroscopic precession, P-factor, propwash vortexes, and a bunch of other things you clearly haven't cared enough to read up on even from a "lite" source.)

 

* Disclaimer: don't try it without an instructor in the back seat.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Echo38

[Soulres]

While you are correct about simming equipment being much less precise than the real deal, it is nonetheless far more precise than a console controller.

Plane is good as its pilot,so not true :P

you could fly a real P-51 with much greater ease.

Perhaps,but with a real flight stick, much more pressure and Two hands being required, itd be a new learning experience with or without perviously using a computer joystick.

 

Accusing the sim of being incorrectly modelled

i never once stated this,i stated somthing was wrong not the game,nor the modeling,please read my post before you post :)

 

Disclaimer: don't try it without an instructor in the back seat.

no one would get in a 1 million dollar aircraft for the first time without one, joystick and xbox controller vs the real deal, neither would prepare differently for the real thing,one thing is for certain, we know where everything is :pilotfly:

[Grizzly1606688174]

Just.. wow..

Whatever dude.. :D~

[Echo38]

i never once stated this,i stated somthing was wrong not the game,nor the modeling,please read my post before you post

 

You wrote, "A2A did for sure get their hands on a P51D, they even showed a video of it, im sure DCS just looked at some pictures and their producers added some spice."

 

That's beyond insulting--it's a lie. Basically, you called the Eagle Dynamics team lazy and apathetic, and implied that the DCS P-51 sim is garbage and greatly inferior to the A2A one. Backpedal now if you like, but I kinda feel as though you owe E.D. an apology.

 

I'm not one who'll refrain from criticizing flight sims (as quite a few exasperated people in other sim communities can attest to), but some of your posts are amounting to slander. On Cichlid's cue, I checked out your posting history, and there's more of this sort of garbage in other threads. Really, the only reason you aren't ban material is that you're a paying customer, but even that doesn't give you the right to slap people for trying to help you.

 

no one would get in a 1 million dollar aircraft for the first time without one

 

Don't be so sure about that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfvqdIPJVsk

 

(Say, your last name wouldn't happen to be Hogg, would it?)

[Wolf Rider]

 

 

i never once stated this,i stated somthing was wrong not the game,nor the modeling,please read my post before you post :)

 

 

 

so your reference to your RC plane, was what exactly... a compliment??

 

 

and with that... gentlemen, It might do well to stop taking the bait from the OP

[VH-Rock]

Soulres, isn't it about time you crawled back under your bridge? :thumbup:

[Pyroflash]

Plane is good as its pilot,so not true :P

 

In fact, it is true. Discounting the actual movement area, the analog precision (number of digits on the sensitivity scale, and the accuracy of the controllers in reporting those digits to the sim) is much better on pedals and most sticks than those of a standard gamepad type controller.

 

Perhaps,but with a real flight stick, much more pressure and Two hands being required, itd be a new learning experience with or without perviously using a computer joystick.

 

Actually, there is a reason simulators are used so heavily for commercial aircraft training. They do very accurately teach you how to fly an aircraft before even setting foot in a "live" plane. Much of my training in Sr-20's was done with sims, especially the instrument stuff. I can also assure you that I did not, at any point, use two hands to control the stick in that aircraft. In fact, most of the time I used zero hands. The autopilot is amazing in that bird.

 

i never once stated this,i stated somthing was wrong not the game,nor the modeling,please read my post before you post :)

 

Actually you did, and I quote

 

"but its still like the RC P51 i have that i got for 50$ flying on a windy day, if this is their interpretation of a real flight of a p51d, ide suggest trying to sit in one and fly it one day"

 

no one would get in a 1 million dollar aircraft for the first time without one, joystick and xbox controller vs the real deal, neither would prepare differently for the real thing,one thing is for certain, we know where everything is :pilotfly:

 

Nope, not completely at least, but there is a great deal of preparation that you can do with sim gear before stepping foot in a plane nowadays. Technology is wonderful.

[Echo38]

I'm in absolute agreement on all points, Pyro, but I think we might all be best taking Wolf Rider's excellent advice.

[Krebs20]

Plane is good as its pilot,so not true :P,

I found the problem.