T-80 firing 9M119 at A-10

[Skitter]

Hi

I created a training mission with T-80 tanks, few miles away from my airfield.

I was on a final to the airfield when I started to hear missile alerts. After landing I checked the event log and noticed the T-80 was shooting anti tank missiles at me (9M119). Is this their normal behavior ?

Is it logical ?

 

Cheers

[159th_Viper]

Hi

I created a training mission with T-80 tanks, few miles away from my airfield.

I was on a final to the airfield when I started to hear missile alerts. After landing I checked the event log and noticed the T-80 was shooting anti tank missiles at me (9M119). Is this their normal behavior ?

Is it logical ?

 

Cheers

 

Yes, the Refleks has a range of 6000m. Sounds like you were within that range so they will engage.

[Boberro]

I've been killed in Su-25T by those creepy missiles. Been happily flying low toward the tanks. At about 3 km from them I saw in TV it fired missile to me but I ignored it thinking *LMAO*.

 

Few seconds later they've been laughing, not me :D

 

-----

 

In the DCS:CA I (as T-80) killed few GheyTens. If they don't know where you are and it doesn't fly too high it can be quite easy target. Taking in consideration GheyTen's looow speed and T80's missile velocity it makes it easier :)

Edited September 25, 2012 by Boberro

[agathorn]

Yes, the Refleks has a range of 6000m. Sounds like you were within that range so they will engage.

 

Is it realistic though? Sounds odd to me, but i'm curious.

 

Also, according to wikipedia, the Refleks is 9M119M, used on the T-80, while 9M119 is the Svir used on the T-75. Sounds like the sim has the wrong designation. Or wikipedia is wrong, but that can't possibly be! :p

[cichlidfan]

Is it realistic though? Sounds odd to me, but i'm curious.

 

The AI certainly does not appear to wait until they can see the whiltes of your eyes. ;)

 

Nor do they wait for the optimal shot from the optimal weapon.

[agathorn]

The AI certainly does not appear to wait until they can see the whiltes of your eyes. ;)

 

Nor do they wait for the optimal shot from the optimal weapon.

 

Sorry I was asking more, is it realistic to be shooting an anti-tank weapon against an aircraft. What i'm asking is would a T-80 be doing this in real life.

[159th_Viper]

Sorry I was asking more, is it realistic to be shooting an anti-tank weapon against an aircraft. What i'm asking is would a T-80 be doing this in real life.

 

Yes, if you are low and slow enough then you'll get shot at. Would also depend on aspect of course but there's no way you are going to outrun this missile.

 

http://zid.ru/eng/products/90/detail/218

[agathorn]

Yes, if you are low and slow enough then you'll get shot at. Would also depend on aspect of course but there's no way you are going to outrun this missile.

 

http://zid.ru/eng/products/90/detail/218

 

Sweet thanks for the link!

[apd1004]

Pretty sure the 9M119 is a laser beam rider, which as long as the tank gunner can track the target and keep the reticle on it throughout the flight of the missile, the missile will theoretically hit. Not sure if the 9M119 uses fin correction or rocket correction though; some ATGM's have a limited ability to make huge steering corrections (i.e, follow the gunner tracking a moving aircraft). Whether these factors are modeled in DCS is another story.

 

That being said, as a tank commander I would probably try to find some cover from the aircraft rather than try to shoot the thing down. The reason we have things like ZSU 23-4 and SA-9/11/13 etc. is because tanks aren't really very good at shooting down aircraft...

Edited September 26, 2012 by apd1004
Speling

[Loki_]

Yup its laser guided. If you creep up on them with the ka50 you'll hear the laser warnings go off before they fire it at you. The A10/su25 dont have laser warning so its just a surprise. Also, bf3 tanks can employ similar tactics if u unlock the laser station on the tank.

[FreeFall]

The A10/su25 dont have laser warning so its just a surprise.

 

:confused: RWR shows the L symbol, meaning laser illumination.

[sjpateys]

Yes it has happened to me many times in the Ka-50. Didn't know tanks fired ATGMs prior to this.

[WildBillKelsoe]

quite frankly, its unfair that you forget, but they don't...

 

I mean they should've just let it go, like this guy should've..

 

[EtherealN]

Sorry I was asking more, is it realistic to be shooting an anti-tank weapon against an aircraft. What i'm asking is would a T-80 be doing this in real life.

 

What I think confuses you is that you are putting too much importance on the "anti-tank" thing. That's just about the warhead etcetera. If you have guidance it doesn't really matter much what you're shooting. Regular shells work fantastically too and tank crews do train for this as well.

 

If you have a good enough firing computer it doesn't matter _what_ the target is; the computer will take the ranging data, figure out an intercept trajectory for the round, and send it on it's way. The "problem" with jets is more that they're usually in and out of the engagement envelope too quickly, and/or come so fast that the launcher cannot traverse fast enough to get that shot.

 

Think of anti-air vehicles like the Shilka: it's firing dumb shots, essentially 23mm rifle bullets (that go boom). Now instead of this, take an actively guided weapon like the Svir/Refleks... Gets even easier. :)

[Boberro]

:confused: RWR shows the L symbol, meaning laser illumination.

 

Yeah that's true. But mooooost people ignore that, hehe.

 

I fired Vikhrs at many A-10s. None of the pilot ever changed bearing, altitude or did anything.

I asked about laser warning - they had it... but were too lazy to react :D

[blahdy]

Yeah that's true. But mooooost people ignore that, hehe.

 

I fired Vikhrs at many A-10s. None of the pilot ever changed bearing, altitude or did anything.

I asked about laser warning - they had it... but were too lazy to react :D

 

Part of the issue is that MWS alerts you of both friendly and enemy launches, so when operating close with friendlies launching missiles, it's full of false positives, and therefore lazy people like me just end up ignoring it altogether XD

[diveplane]

Part of the issue is that MWS alerts you of both friendly and enemy launches, so when operating close with friendlies launching missiles, it's full of false positives, and therefore lazy people like me just end up ignoring it altogether XD

 

next thing u go down in flames..

[blahdy]

yup... learned that the hard way, lol.

[Skitter]

I managed to find a group of tanks that way... I lost track of them, and then I saw laser warning on RWR. I started looking at the direction and finally found them..

 

In the case when I was on final, the tanks fired, I got MSL warnings, but I looked at the direction and saw no projectiles coming my way...so I continued landing. Itt was a bit nervous landing, because the tank(s) was firing missiles quite often. Probably it managed to fire around 8 times before I landed and stopped on the airstrip.

It was too far away I guess, because even after stop I was save.

[marcos]

Wait until the XM1111 comes out. You will have far less time to avoid that.

Edited September 27, 2012 by marcos

[Para_Bellum]

I don't know about you guys but if I were a T-80 tank commander I'd rather save my precious few AT-11s against targets like enemy tanks or slow-flying attack helicopters rather than 'wasting' a subsonic ATGM on a target like an A-10.

[EtherealN]

Everything depends on the situation.

 

I'm not sure you'd be as gung-ho about preserving your guided munitions if you're inside the tin-can and you have a flying GAU-8 looking for you. I think in that situation, if you got a good solution, you'd take it.

 

Having an extra Svir in the ammo rack does you no good if there's a couple hundred holes in your tank. ;)

[MadTommy]

Personally i'd of thought firing a AT weapon at a dedicated flying tank buster would be a pretty stupid or brave, take your pick.

[159th_Falcon]

Personally i'd of thought firing a AT weapon at a dedicated flying tank buster would be a pretty stupid or brave, take your pick.

 

It's neither, just absolute necessity if you want to even have a change of surviving.

[marcos]

I don't know about you guys but if I were a T-80 tank commander I'd rather save my precious few AT-11s against targets like enemy tanks or slow-flying attack helicopters rather than 'wasting' a subsonic ATGM on a target like an A-10.

Better to get killed instead I suppose?

 

Personally i'd of thought firing a AT weapon at a dedicated flying tank buster would be a pretty stupid or brave, take your pick.

What do you suggest instead? Pattering it with .50cal, when you know it's armoured for protection against almost twice that calibre?