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Aircraft Visibility  

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  1. 1. Aircraft Visibility

    • Increase dot size.
      70
    • It's perfect the way it is.
      34
    • Increase far dot size and add a metal glare.
      326


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Posted

Depending on how it's done, still a band-aid. It's 'been sort of done before and resulted in very consistent, un-realistic in range and detection probability spotting/tracking of aircraft and ground targets visually.

 

Draw some pixels minimum even if aircraft model is smaller than this amount of pixels. Scale this threshold amount of pixels acoording the camera FOV. Calibrate this threshold amount of pixels until average real world detection ranges are achieved in test (consistent across variable FOV settings).

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Posted
Depending on how it's done, still a band-aid. It's 'been sort of done before and resulted in very consistent, un-realistic in range and detection probability spotting/tracking of aircraft and ground targets visually.

 

OK, please tell what is your idea for this ? How it can be done so it's not too good ?

 

 

 

I don't wanna whine, im just frustrated because i fell so blind sometimes even i have track ir and triple display etc..

 

 

Peace. :joystick:

 

 

Just tested, max where i can spot tank in Open field in dcs in good wheater is about 4,5 miles. Sometimes 5miles if fov is not too wide.

 

 

-Haukka81

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Posted

Yep I agree, I think I should be able to see aircraft a little further away for example, depending on aspect (you shouldn't be expecting to see a head-on or tail-on fighter very far at all unless it's a serious smoker)

 

I have some ideas, but it all depends on how much work the devs can do on this (ie. resources). It's important for the terrain to be effective when combined with the vehicle's camo, so the terrain needs to be better than a single color or simple gradient. It may require some interesting processing of the ground textures at the right ranges along with properly scaling the vehicle - but vehicle scaling is a problem.

 

How can you scale the vehicle and not the road? See what I mean?

 

OK, please tell what is your idea for this ? How it can be done so it's not too good ?

 

I don't wanna whine, im just frustrated because i fell so blind sometimes even i have track ir and triple display etc..

 

 

Peace. :joystick:

 

 

Just tested, max where i can spot tank in Open field in dcs in good wheater is about 4,5 miles. FOV 110

 

 

-Haukka81

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Posted
I would say that a sim needs to be designed to overcome technological limitations of the medium it runs on.

 

Bingo. Ideally we should have a spotting system that replicates human abilities in air combat as a whole, not just some parts of it. The viewing area, resolution and framerate are all massively inferior in front of a computer screen, which leads to an unrealistic experience in air combat situations. Thus, having some form of icons might make the experience as a whole more representative of the real thing.

 

However, this is a controversial subject. It is true that there are no floating texts or dots in the air in reality and it might be preferable to many to not have any kind of assists. This is why I think it would be important for the developers to consider this suggestion:

 

Make the multiplayer host's icon settings override the icon settings for all players (unless they have turned icons off completely, which must always be allowed). This way the game host gets to choose a level playing field for everyone according to his view of what's best and the players get to choose what kind of servers / settings they like. I believe strongly that this is a very important feature and the only way to solve this issue to everyone's satisfaction. We already have pretty good setting options for icons so it's a good start (we really need dots / icons that are NOT rendered through clouds and plane parts, though!), we just need the next step that is replicating the host's settings for all.

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Posted
Yep I agree, I think I should be able to see aircraft a little further away for example, depending on aspect (you shouldn't be expecting to see a head-on or tail-on fighter very far at all unless it's a serious smoker)

 

I have some ideas, but it all depends on how much work the devs can do on this (ie. resources). It's important for the terrain to be effective when combined with the vehicle's camo, so the terrain needs to be better than a single color or simple gradient. It may require some interesting processing of the ground textures at the right ranges along with properly scaling the vehicle - but vehicle scaling is a problem.

 

How can you scale the vehicle and not the road? See what I mean?

 

Yes , i see that. It's always compromise :beer:

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Posted
Depending on how it's done, still a band-aid. It's 'been sort of done before and resulted in very consistent, un-realistic in range and detection probability spotting/tracking of aircraft and ground targets visually.

 

But you are not telling me that you can currently spot and track aicraft at realistic ranges at reasonable FOVs (no straw view)? Do you realy see no need to do anything about it?

 

I do not have that much problems with ground targets. The issue with unspottabilty at high FOV persists, but since you generally have some intel and they don't move that fast, a very deep zoom in every now and then to regain visual is workable. Though I would prefer to see ground targets also from high FOVs. The real issue though I think is with aircraft.

Posted
Yep I agree, I think I should be able to see aircraft a little further away for example, depending on aspect (you shouldn't be expecting to see a head-on or tail-on fighter very far at all unless it's a serious smoker)

 

I have some ideas, but it all depends on how much work the devs can do on this (ie. resources). It's important for the terrain to be effective when combined with the vehicle's camo, so the terrain needs to be better than a single color or simple gradient. It may require some interesting processing of the ground textures at the right ranges along with properly scaling the vehicle - but vehicle scaling is a problem.

 

Now we are on the right track, isn't that more constructive then blocking any critizism of DCS from the go on :)

Posted

Aircraft lighting definitely could use some improvement, and would solve a lot of the issues around airports and formation flying. I tried playing DCS with my brother (who isn't a huge sim fan but wanted to check out DCS because of me bragging about it) and we were flying around P-51s and spent most of the time trying to spot each other with all my aircraft lights on.

 

I would love smart scaling or reflections (BF3 snipers) just as a "helper." A server should be able to force it disabled just like any other helper. But for practicing, single player, flying online with my brother, it would be great to see each other while flying, or point out some ground targets, without seeing red labels everywhere.

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Posted

I isn't my intent to block criticism, and I always try to think of solutions even if I don't mention them.

 

Mostly I try to block high expectations because while ED does listen to peeps, they don't always have time to address the subject of the day in code. Some things are easy fixes, some are not.

 

Now we are on the right track, isn't that more constructive then blocking any critizism of DCS from the go on :)

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Posted
I isn't my intent to block criticism, and I always try to think of solutions even if I don't mention them.

 

Mostly I try to block high expectations because while ED does listen to peeps, they don't always have time to address the subject of the day in code. Some things are easy fixes, some are not.

 

Would this be easy to import: Make the multiplayer host's icon settings override the icon settings for all players (Andys post )

 

 

?? :)

 

 

So we have some help while we wait edge.

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Posted

If you just want an import, that may be easy, but no guarantees.

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Posted

Some more quick ideas to flesh out a dot-system:

 

-Dot transparency increases with range until complete fade out

-Dot transparency to accommodate time of day and weather (above-below overcast, rain)

-Designate some pixels on the unit texture to define dot base color to accommodate camouflage

-Dot size depending on unit class (fighter, bomber etc). Perhaps even dot size defined per unit

-Variable dot size depending on aspect (as already mentioned by GGTharos)

-Temporary white dot color/no dot transparency, when a certain aspect angle is passed to simulate light glancing off canopy

Posted

Also a method of overcoming barrel/ pincushion like distortion associated with larger or narrower than default FoV

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Posted
Back to OP,Read the brief and Study your map then learn how to loiter on station out side the launch zone and do the pan and scan(also change your display to black hot and look for lil white dots) Also learn to keep you eyes outside the pit watch for smoke trails from Sam's,tracers from AAA,smoke from tracks kicking up the dirt and if your hunting convoys(most of the time there on the road so ck map for what road) it all takes time to learn and and when the radio says things like sam launch or bandit bearing what ever ..LOOK to see what this has to do with you.. this my two cents to the OP and i hope it helps:smartass::thumbup::music_whistling:

 

 

 

Now That my Friend is how it is done!!!!!!

 

And we will never have a RL View on a 2D flat screen no matter the technology. Dots.......Comon'................Really? No thanks I will put in the work. It will mean so much more to you if you do.

 

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Posted

It's supposed to be hard, because, as GGTharos pointed out, they don't want to be seen. You get the hang of it eventually, though, taking risks and actually going down to scope out the area.

It's fiendishly hard to spot them in towns, still, but that's only natural. Sometimes I use the F10 map to see what pattern of buildings they might be next to, since I figure in real life someone could give this information to me verbally.

 

Aircraft are way too slippery, though, so I use custom labels that put a dark grey dot over them from ~6km to ~1km.

 

I think smart scaling is the way to go—Presenting certain things (maybe only if they're moving) at something like the angular size they'd appear if you were using a real-life FOV while leaving the other, stationary things at the regular FOV, simulating the way peripheral vision is very good at spotting movement, and the way something you're really focused on can seem to dominate your visual field.

 

Maybe this could only be applied around the edges of the screen, following an invisible version of that same "fishbowl" distortion, again to simulate peripheral vision, and things would quickly shrink to their "real" size when you look directly at them.

 

It's going to take a lot of creative thinking to tackle this limitation, but I think good workarounds can be found.

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Posted

Any word from a dev on this issue?:music_whistling:

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Posted
You can argue all day but you can't change the fact that we've had pilots telling us that a properly painted vehicle is something you will not see until you're flying more or less on top of it. Dots? What dots? We had 'dots' back in LO, and it made the vehicles complete sitting ducks. You didn't really have to search for them at all, there was no need for a pod or anything.

 

There's a reason why all these pods and other fun things have been invented and are implemented in RL.

 

Got a source for this? Because the Ministry of Natural Resources seems to think you should be able to tell the sex of a moose from 250-500 meters.

 

Anyways, now that you're done spitting up your coffee, I've done similar aerial survey work for them, spotting and tallying ice fisherman rather than moose. And I'm finding it hard to believe that tanks are nigh invisible a few kilometres out.

Posted (edited)

Are your fishermen camouflaged? Incidentally, there are sources for air to air visibility, but I haven't seen studies of air to ground visibility (though I'm certain they exist). I've been up high, had a look down low, too. Yeah, I can see all the contrasty cars.

 

But there are images out there - if you know who to ask for them - where a certain area contains military vehicles and you can't see squat. And that's from a couple thousand feet up - don't know the slant range, but it didn't seem all that far.

 

Anyways, now that you're done spitting up your coffee, I've done similar aerial survey work for them, spotting and tallying ice fisherman rather than moose. And I'm finding it hard to believe that tanks are nigh invisible a few kilometres out.
Edited by GGTharos

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Posted (edited)

scanning for the enemy positions at that height and speed though, sets you up for a nasty experience with equipment designed to knock planes out of the sky. That manual also details some of the difficulties associated with spotting over hilly terrain and forested area.

 

properly camouflaged tanks have lost most definition when the unaided observer is that distance (a few kilometres) out

 

 

Ieditin

 

031910_kornengal053-web.jpg

 

good luck with the above at a couple of hundred meters out

 

masada-flyover.jpg

 

and at a few kilometres

Edited by Wolf Rider

City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P

"Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson

"Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing."

EVGA X99 FTW, EVGA GTX980Ti FTW, i7 5930K, 16Gb Corsair Dominator 2666Hz, Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit, Intel 520 SSD x 2, Samsung PX2370 monitor and all the other toys

-

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar"

Posted

 

031910_kornengal053-web.jpg

 

good luck with the above at a couple of hundred meters out

I spotted the two standing guys almost instantly - mostly because of the round (unnatural) shape of their helmets against the sky. Then I saw something odd that did not really fit in ... the black guys neck and investigated further: another guy! Proudly I was about to post this here that I found the three dudes in the picture.

 

Hrm.

 

No, better have an other look before I make a fool out of myself ... and what the heck - A FOURTH GUY at the top right! lol ...

Posted (edited)

6 I can find :)

Edited by Wolf Rider

City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P

"Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson

"Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing."

EVGA X99 FTW, EVGA GTX980Ti FTW, i7 5930K, 16Gb Corsair Dominator 2666Hz, Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit, Intel 520 SSD x 2, Samsung PX2370 monitor and all the other toys

-

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar"

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