Aircraft Visibility

[Dejjvid]

I'm talking about the feature BMS have. When enabled, it scale units so you can spot them more easily. This is to compensate for the fact that you are viewing a 3d enviroment on a 2d screen.

 

imho, it's way too hard to find AIR opponents as it is now, and the player with the lowest resolution has the advantage.

 

Is a similar feature planned for DCS world?

 

EDIT: I'm only suggesting Smart Scaling for air units

Edited February 4, 2013 by Dejjvid

[Rusty_M]

I'm sure this has been discussed before. In any case, I thought the person with the higher resolution had the advantage.

 

I can't find the old thread just now as I'm posting from my phone.

[112th_Rossi]

Practice practice practice. And patience.

 

A methodical and logical approach to searching for your targets is the best way to find them.

 

My method:

 

1. Approach the target area

2. At around 7nm from target area, put the area on your 90 and start a very gradual clockwise turn. Engage altitude hold autopilot.

3. Use TGP to scan for targets in the expect area. Be careful not to wander into threats.

4. Rinse, repeat.

[Exorcet]

More resolution is better, found that out fighting the P-51 AI in 1366x768 then 1920x1280.

[Frogisis]

Binding the zoom controls to something easy to use, especially if you have a HOTAS, is really helpful as well.

[sorcer3r]

Smart scaling at least for aircraft would be a nice feature when next DCS-jet will be released.

Or a possible feature for EDGE? :)

[Dejjvid]

Smart scaling for aircrafts. Ground units are quite easy to find and we actually opt out the TGP most of the time because its easy mode.. ;)

[Pilotasso]

I'm talking about the feature BMS have. When enabled, it scale units so you can spot them more easily. This is to compensate for the fact that you are viewing a 3d enviroment on a 2d screen.

 

imho, it's way too hard to find AIR opponents as it is now, and the player with the lowest resolution has the advantage.

 

Is a similar feature planned for DCS world?

 

EDIT: I'm only suggesting Smart Scaling for air units

 

BMS scaling is trash, and I hope it never gets imitated at DCS level.

[Dejjvid]

The concept have potential. And BMS scaling is way better then no scaling.

[SkateZilla]

what everyone else said.

 

ORbit Target Area, Use TGP.

 

 

it's more of Distance -> Target Size -> Pixel Size.

 

As you Move away from an Set Point, 1 px on your screen goes from 1px =10 feet, to something like 1px = 1000 feet, and so on.

 

So once an object is far enough away, and becomes less than 1 px, it's no longer drawn, as the ground around the px is the dominate color, so that's teh color of the pixel on your screen.

 

As you get closer, all you see is a pixel representation then eventually as you get closer you start to see the actual shape.

 

larger objects have a farther view distance for this reason,

 

Infantry have a very sort view distance... because they quickly shrink to 1px or less because they are already small targets.

Edited February 4, 2013 by SkateZilla

[Dejjvid]

what everyone else said.

 

I'm not talking about GROUND UNITS. I'm talking about AIR UNITS. As i posted, i rarely use the TGP at all. Because that is easy mode. So please, feel free to discuss air target spotting. Not ground...

[PeterP]

Here is a simple comparison of 1920x1080 and my setup.

 

And I think that there is nothing wrong with the view/drawing distance of airborne targets as long you don't have a greater FOV than 100.

 

 

(the mission file is attached - and simply press "ESC" at mission-start - because you start airborne 3feet over the ground)

 

 

Please excuse that I didn't switched off the 85% Jpg compression - so please keep in mind that it appears a little bit clearer when in the simulation as on these pictures.

So I have no problem to see airborne targets up to 12km against a clear sky and this is getting much better when the "dots" are moving.

 

And as a conclusion I want to underline that this is not a limitation of the software as some are suggesting - it is a limitation of the hardware we are using.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I fully understand the wish to use labels when you have a 22" screen at 1920x1080 and don't want to fixate your FOV.

 

>>>http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1401597#post1401597

.

[Dejjvid]

I've read your test before PeterP. It still doesn't change the fact it's a pain in the *ss to find airborne targets. If you know where to look its easy, in a combat situation you don't.

[wolle]

Smart scaling for aircrafts. Ground units are quite easy to find and we actually opt out the TGP most of the time because its easy mode.. ;)

 

What do you mean by "TGP is easy mode". Do you mean that the TGP is unrealistically implemented, that is to say it should properly belong to the game mode, not the sim mode? Why?

[shagrat]

I think it is not challenging enough for him. Not unrealistic. I propose SEAD against an SA-15 with Mk5 unguided rockets. Should be challenging enough! :megalol:

[Justin Case]

What do you mean by "TGP is easy mode". Do you mean that the TGP is unrealistically implemented, that is to say it should properly belong to the game mode, not the sim mode? Why?

 

No he doesn't.

[BRooDJeRo]

How much impact difference is there between a single 22'' 1680x1050 and a single 27'' 1920x1080?

 

Is it realy a huge difference too? If it is than this 22'' will be mothballed tomorrow morning.

[Skoop]

Funny you brought this up because I am deep into bms right now and thought about smart scaling being added to dcs. Might be a cool feature to add, but like a lot of things in dcs, is it really worth devoting time and resources to ? I mean there are so many other fish to fry for ED.

[PeterP]

I've read your test before PeterP. It still doesn't change the fact it's a pain in the *ss to find airborne targets. If you know where to look its easy, in a combat situation you don't.

 

You nailed it! - when you don't know where to look , it's very hard to see something that might interested you, no matter how big it is...

 

 

 

...just spend some time offset to the runway of a airfield (so you can't see the landing lights directed to you when the planes come in) and wear ear-protection.

And you will also have a hard time to spot them.

And now imagine doing it from above - so you don't see the almost shadowed belly against a much brighter sky , ...and take also into consideration that you have to spot them against ground-cutler while the plane is painted mate and has some sort of camouflage pattern at the top.

(one of the simplest example of a camo-pattern are the little darker edges of the wings on a gray F-15 painting. - this is done so the real shape of the plane gets 'blurred')

...

I bet RL pilots wish to have a "smart scaling" too.

 

My opinion:

Instead adding "smart scaling" we need something like this : Give AI some spotting delay

so we would have a more balanced battle against the AI.

or: never Fly without a AI wingmen - so you can rely on his spotting capabilities.

How much impact difference is there between a single 22'' 1680x1050 and a single 27'' 1920x1080?

 

Is it realy a huge difference too? If it is than this 22'' will be mothballed tomorrow morning.

not much .

But you will only gain your horizontal FOV.

To get a bigger-picture you need a greater vertical resolution and going from 1050 to 1080 wont help much.

Edited February 5, 2013 by PeterP

[Weta43]

And I think that there is nothing wrong with the view/drawing distance of airborne targets as long you don't have a greater FOV than 100

 

Hmmm - So you mean if you play with the FOV equivalent of having one of those cones they attach to dogs to stop them licking themselves put over your head, or the blinkers they put on horses while doing crowd control, everything you can see will look OK ?

 

I agree - it's a limitation of the hardware, and in 15 years, when everyone has as standard 180 degrees of view at better resolution than any existing monitor, there'll be no reason for labels, and other mechanisms to compensate for the failings of hardware.

Until then the options are: zoom in and have a narrower than realistic FOV, but be able to see details, or zoom out and have a realistic FOV, but no details, or use some form of modified label, or use smart zooming.

 

I guess it all depends whether looking realistic is more important than having realistic FOV and detection ranges...

[Suchacz]

You can try this modification of "Labels.lua" Labels will now appear as black dots with no additional info.

 

AirFormat = {}
AirFormat[10] = ""
AirFormat[5000] = "}"
AirFormat[10000] = "}"
AirFormat[20000] = "]"
AirFormat[30000] = "'"
GroundFormat = {}
GroundFormat[5000] = "{"
GroundFormat[10000] = "~"
GroundFormat[20000] = "`"
NavyFormat = {}
NavyFormat[10000] = "{"
NavyFormat[20000] = "~"
NavyFormat[40000] = "`"
WeaponFormat = {}
WeaponFormat[5000] = "["
WeaponFormat[10000] = "|"
WeaponFormat[20000] = "|"
-- Colors in {red, green, blue} format, volume from 0 up to 255
ColorAliesSide = {0, 0, 0}
ColorEnemiesSide = {0, 0, 0}

Edited February 5, 2013 by Suchacz

[Dejjvid]

Suchacz thanks for the tip. I don't wanna use that because it will ruin the immersion for me.

I just want a feature that compensate for the fact the 2D screen can't replicate a 3D environment. If I fly IRL I can easily spot objects in the sky from far away. In DCS the objects appear much smaller then they would in reality.

 

Smart scaling would increase the size of the objects when they are far away, and gradually adjust the size as they come closer. Within 1nm the object size is quite ok, but beyond that it's too small.

[Serp Supreme]

Increase spotting distance?

 

So I have two conflicting issues with my DCS setup that I could use some help with. One, being how to increase the distance at which vehicles are able to be seen by the player. I know I can do this by increasing the resolution, but here's the other issue: I'm running on a very weak system here, so in order to save frames I'm running at 1024x768 instead of my full 1600x900. But like I said this decreases the distance I see units at. In this 1024 resolution it's hard to see units until I'm about a mile out, at full zoom. This is obviously a huge problem. Can I get some help here, or am I screwed?

Edited January 30, 2014 by Serp Supreme

[camsr]

Yes you need to run at higher res to see stuff. The objects can be drawn further away, but if they are sub-pixel in perspective, essentially invisible.

If you have a good GFX card, resolution makes little impact to FPS.

[Serp Supreme]

Currently have Nvidia GeForce GT630M. Relatively low end as far as I know. It's low enough to make resolution have a hit at least.