Aircraft Visibility

[camsr]

Right, then a higher res would lower your FPS.

Only real solution is to upgrade to a more beasty card.

[ENO]

Look into how to make labels really, really small... Then leave them on- that might help you keep settings low enough to run on your system.

 

Any upgrades in your future?

[Weta43]

If you're playing SP, you can edit your labels file to remove all data except that there's something there at the distance you believe you should be able to see something (make them all the same low contrast colour, change them to just a dot " . " or if they're closer _|_ )

Here's something to try (goes in "Config\View', make a copy of your own in case you don't like it):

 

Edit - snipped by Eno..

Labels.lua

[ENO]

Sniped in the idea- but you have the proper file there to do something about it. Closest I got was

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=31602&highlight=adjusting+labels

 

And that's from 2008! lol

[Irregular programming]

DCS really needs unit scaling like Falcon does.

[Stonehouse]

For what it's worth I've found that the more visibility mod found in this thread http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=115454 seems to help me spot other aircraft, running on the second highest setting provided by the mod on a 1920 x 1080 screen and HDR off. Not sure if it makes a difference but using mods like DTAC terrain, Sweet FX too.

 

Cheers,

Stonehouse

[winz]

If you're playing SP, you can edit your labels file to remove all data except that there's something there at the distance you believe you should be able to see something (make them all the same low contrast colour, change them to just a dot " . " or if they're closer _|_ )

Here's something to try (goes in "Config\View', make a copy of your own in case you don't like it):

 

Edit - snipped by Eno..

What you can also do is put a newline before the label, so the label isn't sitting on the target, but is displaced, so you cannot just aim at the label.

[Weta43]

.... so you cannot just aim at the label.

 

Hmmmm....

 

You shouldn't be shooting at something you haven't identified, and as there's no colour coding on these labels, and only typing at a reasonable distance, you either have to lock a target up to ID it, wait till you know it's a type only available to the other side, or zoom in and ID it with your eyeball.

 

Once you've ID'd it, the labels are intended to compensate for shortcomings in the representation on the screen, so there's no reason why you shouldn't be shooting at the label..

[Suchacz]

When I was a little bit advanced beginer I was using this "labels.lua", it looks not so arcade, but it improves a visibility of targets. It lacks any info and it has this green color for both sides.

 

Labels.lua

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

well, i would like to know, whether there are some ingame settings which actually affect the spotting distance for aircraft...

for example does HDR affect the distance at which aircraft will appear on the screen?

does MSAA affect it?

does the visibilty setting affect the distance at which aircraft can be spotted?

[winz]

You shouldn't be shooting at something you haven't identified, and as there's no colour coding on these labels, and only typing at a reasonable distance, you either have to lock a target up to ID it, wait till you know it's a type only available to the other side, or zoom in and ID it with your eyeball.

One issue I have with labels is that you cannot specify transparency for different distances. So once you're in the defined distance the labels will just pop-in. And you, the player, go from "I don't know if there is anything there" to "There is something on that precise spot" without any kind of effort. Sure, you have to id the target, but that is most of the time easy when you know the exact locations.

I use the newline to somewhat work around this. Pointing your sensor on the label at max distance will not help you, you have to search the area around the label to find and id the target. As you get closer, the displacement between label and target gets smaller (because labels don't have prespective), so at close ranges the target sits next to the label.

 

Anyway, that's the reason why I use it. Maybe someone else will like it, if not, then no harm done :)

[Serp Supreme]

DCS really needs unit scaling like Falcon does.

 

This. The scaling feature in BMS is probably my second favorite part about that sim. It's a great help. And regarding the labels trick, I used to do that but eventually stopped because it made it a bit TOO easy to find targets, and you can see them through the cockpit or hills as well.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Serp Supreme

[VapoR]

I remember back in FC1 that units were visible as dots out to about 15km or so. You still had to be looking in the right place to see them and of course they weren't identifiable at that distance. This IMO was a good solution to the lack of contrast and resolution that you would get in real life.

[Weta43]

One issue I have with labels is that you cannot specify transparency for different distances. So once you're in the defined distance the labels will just pop-in. And you, the player, go from "I don't know if there is anything there" to "There is something on that precise spot" without any kind of effort.

 

If the labels are set to appear at some realistic distance, a low visibility colour, a single full-stop and you're playing at 1920*1080 then even if you know where to look, they can still be hard to find - particuarly against the ground, or at dusk / dawn...

 

The principal problem I have with even with well edited labels is not that they are too high vis (fixable with an edit) or that they 'pop' in (if they're small you'll only notice if you're looking directly at them), it's that they aren't oclluded by anything, so they show through buildings, trees, the floor of your aircraft etc. etc....

[eFirehawk]

DCS really needs unit scaling like Falcon does.

 

What is this?

[Suchacz]

...it's that they aren't oclluded by anything, so they show through buildings, trees, the floor of your aircraft etc. etc....

This is really a problem. But the solution will cause using aditional precious CPU power :cry:

[MBot]

The visibility of units, especially aircraft, in this series has always been a major issue for me. It is probably the most important reason why I never really got into air-air in this sim. Within our online group we even have major trouble to keep visual contact within a flight in tactically spaced formations (the new smoke effects might relax this a bit). Yes, spotting aircraft is hard and it should be so in game. But as players we are also facing technical limitations. Sims display a certain FOV of the game world on a screen, which covers a much smaller angle of our own vision. This naturally makes everything relatively smaller.

 

Modified labels never appealed to me due to the already mentioned reasons. Even the smallest characters are already too plainly visible and lables are unobstructable. The solution is in my oppinion a dot system as has been implemented in various other sims. This visibility of far away units is enhcanced by drawing more pixels than geometrically needed, while still being affected by the LOS limitations of the actual unit. This has worked very well for me in Il-2 or Rise of Flight, where spotting is still hard (it is by far the most important factor in air-air combat) but doable enough to visually build up situation awareness.

 

I predict that unless ED works on the visibility properties of their engine, air-air heavy modules depending on visual search, such as WWII up to Vietnam, will ultimately fail in the larger community.

[VanjaB]

The visibility of units, especially aircraft, in this series has always been a major issue for me. It is probably the most important reason why I never really got into air-air in this sim. Within our online group we even have major trouble to keep visual contact within a flight in tactically spaced formations (the new smoke effects might relax this a bit). Yes, spotting aircraft is hard and it should be so in game. But as players we are also facing technical limitations. Sims display a certain FOV of the game world on a screen, which covers a much smaller angle of our own vision. This naturally makes everything relatively smaller.

 

Modified labels never appealed to me due to the already mentioned reasons. Even the smallest characters are already too plainly visible and lables are unobstructable. The solution is in my oppinion a dot system as has been implemented in various other sims. This visibility of far away units is enhcanced by drawing more pixels than geometrically needed, while still being affected by the LOS limitations of the actual unit. This has worked very well for me in Il-2 or Rise of Flight, where spotting is still hard (it is by far the most important factor in air-air combat) but doable enough to visually build up situation awareness.

 

I predict that unless ED works on the visibility properties of their engine, air-air heavy modules depending on visual search, such as WWII up to Vietnam, will ultimately fail in the larger community.

 

This is a very good thread and I second the motion of extra pixels for far away targets/bogeys.

[Irregular programming]

What is this?

 

Falcon scales units so that they become slightly bigger at a distance. It basically means that you can see units when you should.

 

e.

Apparently the term is "smart scaling".

Edited January 31, 2014 by Irregular programming

[EagleEye]

The visibility of units, especially aircraft, in this series has always been a major issue for me. It is probably the most important reason why I never really got into air-air in this sim. Within our online group we even have major trouble to keep visual contact within a flight in tactically spaced formations (the new smoke effects might relax this a bit). Yes, spotting aircraft is hard and it should be so in game. But as players we are also facing technical limitations. Sims display a certain FOV of the game world on a screen, which covers a much smaller angle of our own vision. This naturally makes everything relatively smaller.

 

Modified labels never appealed to me due to the already mentioned reasons. Even the smallest characters are already too plainly visible and lables are unobstructable. The solution is in my oppinion a dot system as has been implemented in various other sims. This visibility of far away units is enhcanced by drawing more pixels than geometrically needed, while still being affected by the LOS limitations of the actual unit. This has worked very well for me in Il-2 or Rise of Flight, where spotting is still hard (it is by far the most important factor in air-air combat) but doable enough to visually build up situation awareness.

 

I predict that unless ED works on the visibility properties of their engine, air-air heavy modules depending on visual search, such as WWII up to Vietnam, will ultimately fail in the larger community.

+1 Nothing to add.

[Krupi]

Yeah, this is by far the hardest sim when it comes to spotting :/

[splash]

I second that.

[airdoc]

The visibility of units, especially aircraft, in this series has always been a major issue for me. It is probably the most important reason why I never really got into air-air in this sim. Within our online group we even have major trouble to keep visual contact within a flight in tactically spaced formations (the new smoke effects might relax this a bit). Yes, spotting aircraft is hard and it should be so in game. But as players we are also facing technical limitations. Sims display a certain FOV of the game world on a screen, which covers a much smaller angle of our own vision. This naturally makes everything relatively smaller.

 

Modified labels never appealed to me due to the already mentioned reasons. Even the smallest characters are already too plainly visible and lables are unobstructable. The solution is in my oppinion a dot system as has been implemented in various other sims. This visibility of far away units is enhcanced by drawing more pixels than geometrically needed, while still being affected by the LOS limitations of the actual unit. This has worked very well for me in Il-2 or Rise of Flight, where spotting is still hard (it is by far the most important factor in air-air combat) but doable enough to visually build up situation awareness.

 

I predict that unless ED works on the visibility properties of their engine, air-air heavy modules depending on visual search, such as WWII up to Vietnam, will ultimately fail in the larger community.

 

+1

 

i hope that DCS WWII team will have a serious look into this

[Nealius]

Yes, please. Tanks and other vehicles do not even render for me until about 2-3nm slant range. "Render" isn't the right word, since they are already there and I can find them with the TGP and Mavericks, but when I try to visually acquire them I fly to the target area and see nothing. Then when I hit around 2.5nm all of a sudden little black pixels appear out of nowhere.

[Oznerol256]

Yes, please. Tanks and other vehicles do not even render for me until about 2-3nm slant range. "Render" isn't the right word, since they are already there and I can find them with the TGP and Mavericks, but when I try to visually acquire them I fly to the target area and see nothing. Then when I hit around 2.5nm all of a sudden little black pixels appear out of nowhere.

 

Are you on low settings? I can spot tanks just by zooming in at 10nm. Well, i won't find any but if i know there is one i can see it.

 

Also, the TGP is basically a second camera that is placed just over they ground where the TGP looks at. That's right, no extremly zoomed camera, a normal one that is placed right over the ground. That also makes tanks flicker sometimes on the TGP when the camera goes inside their model. The face that the camera is placed right where the TGP looks at makes the rendering engine switch to high levels of detail for the TGP camera. That's why you always see high quality stuff on the TGP.