Ideal GAU-8 range against tanks?

[IonicRipper]

If I remember the training missions correctly, they said something about opening fire at about 2 miles.

After a few tries today, it seemed to me like its way too far a distance to have any chance at destroying a tank.

 

So my question is: What range do A-10 pilots usually engage armored targets at IRL and what distances do you guys prefer?

[159th_Viper]

0.7nm - 0.4nm for a guaranteed 100-round kill.

 

B7barPrsB5k

[KLR Rico]

I can usually engage T-55's at 1.2-0.7 miles, but it seems that the T-72's or T-90's are a tougher nut to crack, and I need to be within that 0.7 miles that Viper mentioned. And like he said, if you do it well enough you can pop a tank with <100 rounds.

 

A good dive angle from the rear aspect with good PAC stabilization is important too. The hard part is getting a good dive angle, getting that close, and egressing before you crash. Things happen quick!

 

Note of caution though... Not all targets should be approached that closely. I don't dare engage a BMP-2 with my cannon from closer than 1.2 miles, if you get close or are stabilized for more than a second, those things will tear you to pieces with a quickness. If you roll in from the right distance, get the pipper on the target quickly, and run with enough energy to do a little juke you can do it. It's even possible to engage Shilka's the same way.

[Ranger79]

0.7nm - 0.4nm for a guaranteed 100-round kill.

 

B7barPrsB5k

 

Beautiful Viper! I was told "your too low" "pull up" but I too got great hits at that range!

[IonicRipper]

Tried it your way, Viper and it works great.

 

Does anyone know what distance real pilots usually engage armors at?

[SmokeyTheLung]

 

Does anyone know what distance real pilots usually engage armors at?

 

As close as they can, while still being able to safely recover the jet.

[SmokeyTheLung]

A video you've probably seen of an A-10A pilot engaging armor in Bagdad, 2003 I think.

It's pretty difficult to read the HUD, but he's definitely engaging very close.

[IonicRipper]

^ Seems like he was at 0.8nm when he fired at 2:10.

[WildBillKelsoe]

0.7~1.0 nm no more, no less, from the rear armor, from 6000 feet.

[Nealius]

I've been wondering this too. I can't even see the tank until about 1nm and even then it's a measly pixel.

[IonicRipper]

I like to zoom in when coming on a gun run, makes it much easier.

[quarkie]

This is how I do it.

 

 

-35° ... -45° dive, 0.3 ... 0.4 nm range.

 

40-60 round kills and low chance of backfire (tanks in video are inert, however).

 

I can highly recommend this mission by StrongHarm for practice - http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=72549

[Evil.Bonsai]

This is how I do it.

 

 

-35° ... -45° dive, 0.3 ... 0.4 nm range.

 

40-60 round kills and low chance of backfire (tanks in video are inert, however).

 

I can highly recommend this mission by StrongHarm for practice - http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=72549

 

Hehe, watched video before reading that. Was thinking "WHY aren't they peppering him with .50? He should be in flames by now."

[quarkie]

I do that on live tanks as well. They don't fire because of the angle.

[Maachine]

if you look there are two dots in the gun reticle. the center most dot is where the armor piercing rounds will land, and the lower one is where the HE rounds will land. i like to wait till both dots are really close before firing. but both video examples provided will be tried by me at some point. thanks for the vids

[StrongHarm]

I think you may be using an older version of that mission Quarkie. I've made a number of improvements, check it out. And thanks for the endorcement! I worked hard on that one. Glad it helped.

 

The mission really helped my tankbusting skills too. I used to have to reload twice to take out all 16 tanks, now I can do it with no reload and ammo to spare.

 

After you take out the non-agressive tanks, highly skilled aggressive tanks spawn, and they will shoot you down pretty easily if you're not careful. The key to avoiding their fire is rudder. Keep a wing down and your eye on them, when they fire just juke a little rudder, the rounds will pass you by. I can fly a pattern at 200ft around 8 T80s all day long and not get hit after practicing avoidance. Try it out in TankBusting101. The mission has voice guided instructions and tips, as well as performance triggered information.

 

By the way, if you don't want to take the time to kill the non-aggressive tanks, just hit F10 and choose to autodestroy them so the aggressive ones will spawn.

 

More info:

 

 

I've created a mission (attached) that I hope will help everyone to bust tanks more effeciently. I know it has for me! If you need to repeat any instructions or tips, you can do it in your F10 'Other' Radio Menu. Try to follow the waypoints as it shows you how to use your MK1 eyeball and get a beam on the target properly.

 

There are a few bonus suprises if you kill all four groups.

 

If you make fun of my voice overs it will hurt my feelings... not everyone can be Matt frickin' Wagner! :)

 

 

 

Edit: Added a multiplayer version

 

Welcome to Tank Busting Practice!

You'll have two groups of non-aggressive T80 Main Battle Tanks moving up the runways at waypoint 3.

They'll be moving very slowly on a south-north track. They will not disperse.

Once you kill those they'll be replaced by two groups of AGGRESSIVE T80s which will disperse under fire.

Smoke marks the 1.5nm run in point off the east and west runways;

red/orange at 5k and white at 3k.

Take off and you'll receive further instructions in the air.

Please follow all waypoints until initial attack.

 

NOTES:

If you want to continue the mission after death, be sure to have Permit Crash Recover set in your options.

You may also want to add unlimited fuel/ammo in options while training.

If you're having trouble hearing radio calls, turn your World and In Cockpit audio levels down in options.

To review tips and messages, use your F10 radio menu.

 

IP Inbound

You're 10nm from target.

Some things to remember when tankbusting with the GAU-8:

1. Alignment is important.. use the smoke as a run in reference

2. Engage your PAC and don't fight it, let it fly you in

3. Slant should be at least 15+, the more the better.. if you can still pull out comfortably that is...

4. Don't let your speed drop too much, PAC isn't as effective and you're making yourself a target

5. Practice getting beam, or a wing, on the target and rolling in at 1.5nm.. marked by smoke

6. On egress, practice velocity on both axes to avoid retaliatory fire

7. If it doesn’t look good then wave-off and go around for another try

8. Practice fire discipline. Use as little ammo as possible on each run

 

POST RUN-IN REMINDERS:

Consider:

1. Roll-In aspect----------(target off wing)

2. Slant---------------------(-15 to -30)

3. Speed-------------------(270+)

4. PAC----------------------(Let it fly)

5. Range-------------------(fire at .7 to .4nm)

6. Wave off ---------------(if it's not pretty turn away)

7. Ammo-------------------(as little rounds as possible for effect)

8. Egress-------------------(up and across)

The smoke is just a reference at 5k and 3k. Try different altitudes and see what works.

Roll around to the smoke and give it another try! Take your time! Review and analyze!

 

Congrats!

You've killed all tanks!

Try different tactics and perfect your technique. Get surgical!

Can you kill them all in one weapons load?

That's no more than 71 rounds per tank!

 

Mission End

 

 

 

[mjeh]

Depends on the number of enemies, if it's just one tank then you can go very close and go for the 50 round per tank-method. If there are more than one enemy, however, I wouldn't recommend it. Especially not against BMPs :)

 

While it's nice to be able to kill 15 tanks on 1100 GAU-rounds, I don't think it's very realistic because you would be putting yourself and the aircraft in immense risk. Hence the 2 miles range and 1-2 seconds trigger pull

[StrongHarm]

I don't agree, mjeh. The whole purpose of the A-10 being created was to attack and destroy large numbers of Soviet tanks in a single flight, primarily with the GAU-8 at low altitude. SOP dictates no more than a 2 second burst per target. It would take several runs to kill a single tank with that short of a burst at 2nm. 0.7nm is the max range for max effect against heavy armor. Rolling in to the target at too great a distance gives them a good and stable target, and you'll get hit every time. I prefer 1.5nm roll in. If you practice evasion around tanks.. or even BMPs, you can stay pretty safe. Download my mission and give it a try. I regularly run in on 8 T80s and engage at .7 with great effect and never get hit.

[mjeh]

SOP dictates no more than a 2 second burst per target. It would take several runs to kill a single tank with that short of a burst at 2nm. 0.7nm is the max range for max effect against heavy armor. Rolling in to the target at too great a distance gives them a good and stable target, and you'll get hit every time. I prefer 1.5nm roll in. If you practice evasion around tanks.. or even BMPs, you can stay pretty safe. Download my mission and give it a try.

 

Yeah I agree I exaggerated with the 2 miles figure, at that range you can easily take out lightly armored targets but a tank will clap excitedly at the pretty dirt fountain you're making for him. At least within this sim. Your mission looks good, but I have made a few similar ones myself for GAU-practice :)

 

I regularly run in on 8 T80s and engage at .7 with great effect and never get hit.

 

If you could do that IRL then you would put Rudel himself to shame with your marksmanship and you would have basketball-sized crotch area, which is why I'm saying I don't think it is particularily realistic. The manual skill required, the calm nerves and the complete disregard for the extreme danger makes it unfeasible in my eyes. (It is one thing to violently maneuver an aircraft dodging bullets in a simulator, I would assume it's quite another thing IRL where the forces, impressions, nerves and consequences are very real)

 

EDIT: The reason I'm at all mentioning realism is because of the OP's question, "So my question is: What range do A-10 pilots usually engage armored targets at IRL and what distances do you guys prefer?". That said, I've obviously never flown an A-10 into combat and I don't know anyone that has so what I'm contributing here is just my own opinion based on observations made in the sim.

Edited March 13, 2013 by mjeh
adding some stuff

[159th_Viper]

....which is why I'm saying I don't think it is particularily realistic....

 

RL doctrine dictates the 0.7nm - 0.4nm engagement range against armour.

[mjeh]

Ah, well that settles that then :)

[StrongHarm]

The manual skill required, the calm nerves and the complete disregard for the extreme danger makes it unfeasible in my eyes. (It is one thing to violently maneuver an aircraft dodging bullets in a simulator, I would assume it's quite another thing IRL where the forces, impressions, nerves and consequences are very real)

 

Some of the bravest and most capable pilots in the U.S. Military are Hawg pilots. Particularly when doing CAS and helping out ground troops, they go in with little regard to their own personal safety. The Hawg was designed to take more punishment than any other plane ever built; with it's redunant systems and titanium cockpit shell, they can take a real beating. I don't think the assurance of having a rugged airframe under them is the only thing that makes them so aggressive though; they're fighting men. I was in the military during desert storm, and I saw them frequently with bullet holes and pieces of the airframe missing. I also had the opportunity to see them operate in the field a few times, and I can tell you that they don't fly at a safe distance with their pinky out. :) These are warriors in killing machines.

 

Also, if they're not the best of the best, they simply don't get to fly. I was suprised to learn that all U.S. Navy pilots are required to have the same level of ability as the pilots of the Blue Angels... and all USAF pilots the same skills as the Thunderbirds... it's just normal to them. These aircraft are amazing, but the men flying them are what makes them so deadly and effective.

 

The pilots I really admire are the P-51 pilots of WW2. Talk about calm nerves and disregard for danger! I was in the VA hospital with a pony pilot for a few weeks and had the pleasure of speaking with him for hours a day. His stories would make your eyes pop out.

 

I encourage you to look into the real world aspects of the A-10C, it will expand your enjoyment of DCS.

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/warthog-william-l-smallwood/1111668921?ean=9781574888867

 

Have fun,

StrongHarm

[WildBillKelsoe]

RL doctrine dictates the 0.7nm - 0.4nm engagement range against armour.

 

In addition, PAC-1 to be on at least 7 seconds before PAC-2.

[mjeh]

Some of the bravest and most capable pilots in the U.S. Military are Hawg pilots. Particularly when doing CAS and helping out ground troops, they go in with little regard to their own personal safety. The Hawg was designed to take more punishment than any other plane ever built; with it's redunant systems and titanium cockpit shell, they can take a real beating. I don't think the assurance of having a rugged airframe under them is the only thing that makes them so aggressive though; they're fighting men. I was in the military during desert storm, and I saw them frequently with bullet holes and pieces of the airframe missing. I also had the opportunity to see them operate in the field a few times, and I can tell you that they don't fly at a safe distance with their pinky out. :) These are warriors in killing machines.

 

Also, if they're not the best of the best, they simply don't get to fly. I was suprised to learn that all U.S. Navy pilots are required to have the same level of ability as the pilots of the Blue Angels... and all USAF pilots the same skills as the Thunderbirds... it's just normal to them. These aircraft are amazing, but the men flying them are what makes them so deadly and effective.

 

The pilots I really admire are the P-51 pilots of WW2. Talk about calm nerves and disregard for danger! I was in the VA hospital with a pony pilot for a few weeks and had the pleasure of speaking with him for hours a day. His stories would make your eyes pop out.

 

Yeah, you're right. I've read Hans-Ulrich Rudel's "Stuka pilot" (thoroughly 1000% recommend it to anyone even remotely interested in aircraft btw) and some of the stories in there would make the wildest DCS-stories seem like a sunday drive, and these are real life accounts :) So I suppose it's safe to assume there have been some break-neck heroics going on in modern times aswell.

 

Also, inspired by this discussion I fired up one of my old gunnery practice missions yesterday. It seems my memory was too coloured by early GAU-run experimenting, where more often than not I would resemble swiss cheese after a couple runs. It is true that with some practice you will only ever get hit if you're lazy (improper setup prior to run-in, too shallow dive, lazy egressing), even against multiple tanks. I maintain that BMPs should be treated with signifficantly more respect though :)

 

I encourage you to look into the real world aspects of the A-10C, it will expand your enjoyment of DCS.

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/warthog-william-l-smallwood/1111668921?ean=9781574888867

 

Oh yeah, I've spent countless hours on youtube looking at GAU-runs, demo flights, gun cams, TVM feeds etc. Watching GAU-runs on youtube was how I got into DCS in the first place (Wags indicated that impact sounds are back in current test build, yay). Thanks for the book recommendation, it will be sitting on my kindle shortly :)

 

In addition, PAC-1 to be on at least 7 seconds before PAC-2.

 

7 seconds?? I don't think I've ever even kept the trigger down for that long in any stage :)

[wess24m]

0.7nm - 0.4nm for a guaranteed 100-round kill.

 

B7barPrsB5k

 

 

Can we add some CCR to the in-game soundtrack? :thumbup: