StevenO Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Stall out into a flat spin at 270kt ........the P51 cornering speed....come on...Realistic? Not sure about that.....
GGTharos Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Stalls don't depend on speed, they depend on AoA. You can cause a stall at any speed by exceeding the critical AoA. You pulled too hard. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
sobek Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Realistic? Not sure about that Pulling full elevator is what's not realistic. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
StevenO Posted March 27, 2013 Author Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) I'm aware of this .....thank you though! still seems unrealistic. Edited March 27, 2013 by StevenO
ED Team NineLine Posted March 27, 2013 ED Team Posted March 27, 2013 I'm aware of this .....thank you though! still seems unrealistic. Post a track. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
ED Team NineLine Posted March 27, 2013 ED Team Posted March 27, 2013 I'm sorry what is a track? Replay Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
GGTharos Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Based on what? If you know that stalls are based on critical AoA, then what's problem? You don't believe that the P-51 can exceed critical AoA at 270kt? still seems unrealistic. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Kwiatek Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) I think that could be a more problem to fly our DCS P-51 then RL pilot could have with his P-51. I could imagine that in simulator with our "short stick" we could have more trouble with pitch movement then RL pilots. So even if critical angle of atack data are accurate in game it still could not mean that it would be realistic way. Im personaly think that in game P-51 got stall little too early comparing to stick movements. BTW i wonder what CAoA and clmax had P-51? Edited March 27, 2013 by Kwiatek
Nate--IRL-- Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I would highly suggest using input curves for the Joystick axes. By Default it is very easy to over control the P-51. See page 24 of the DCS user manual. Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading
GGTharos Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I wonder that, too, I've never seen a chart for it, which is why I can't comment on 'you should start stalling when you pull this much AoA according to that chart' - but I'm also not a huge WW2 aircraft fan, so hopefuly someone who is has such information. ED has access to real P-51, so I figure they have fairly good data. But even given that, as you said, because our control setup and the seat-of-the-pants feeling is missing, flying a simulated aircraft is harder. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
StevenO Posted March 27, 2013 Author Posted March 27, 2013 The problem is obviously not the knowledge....WE seem to have a basic understanding of some of the BASIC physics of flight.......my problem....unlike you obviously, is that it doesn't feel right in this rendition of the P51. To me, I do not feel like I'm pulling to hard, or too quickly, yet its ready to fall flat right away. Now if your a real P51 pilot I'm ready to bow, if not then its your opinion against mine. Thanks.
VIMANAMAN Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) Stall out into a flat spin at 270kt ........the P51 cornering speed....come on...Realistic? Not sure about that..... I know what you mean... but this is one sensitive beast - I'm not a RL pilot but there are a lot around here who are, and know one has found a flaw in this Hi Fi FM that I'm aware of... Soft hands to find the edge of performance (very soft if no curves on your controller). You just need to practise it, some. ....well a lot to be honest. Stay below 10K ft, pull, and feel for the edge (making darn sure the ball is on the money). Sorry if you know the technique - the message is soft hands... (edit - sniped / out of date already but will leave it as one member to another - it just practise mate - end edit) Edited March 27, 2013 by VIMANAMAN
ED Team NineLine Posted March 27, 2013 ED Team Posted March 27, 2013 It was stated somewhere that length of our desktop flight sticks compared to a RL stick in the cockpit of a P-51 does indeed make a difference, this is most likely where you are seeing an issue, there are a couple work arounds... lengthening your flight stick, adjust curves are a couple ways to adjust for it... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Nate--IRL-- Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Some figures for the DCS P-51. Sea level Accelerated Stall for 270kts is 6g - how many G were you pulling? Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading
StevenO Posted March 27, 2013 Author Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) Well, not saying there is a flaw..just a feel...and yes...very hard to get a "feel" on a PC. It is totally possible that this is how the actual A/C flies. I have no real idea. Maybe I'm used to so many other types. This is still new to me and maybe as I progress there might be some settings I can come across that will help. I was only making an "early" PC observation. It would be interesting to hear from any RL pilots..especially P51 pilots....on how they think it flies..I will continue to adjust my controller settings...but like anything else that is new...I'm not sure where to begin.... :-) Edited March 27, 2013 by StevenO
159th_Viper Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 This is still new to me and maybe as I progress there might be some settings I can come across that will help... You have already been told by Nate (post #10) what settings will help. ..especially P51 pilots....on how they think it flies.. SIM was tested by RL pilots who gave it the go-ahead. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Nate--IRL-- Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I'll suggest again setting curves for your Joystick - it makes all the difference. I use 7 deadzone and 30 curvature for my crappy Joystick. Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading
Kwiatek Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 Yes im also wonder RL P-51 pilot opinion. For me as RL pilot (not P-51 yet :P ) but i fly aerobatic in Zlin 526F so i think DCS P-51 has get stall to early comparing to stick movement - which actually there is no need to much to get stall. Looking from extrernal view on G number during turn and speed it look exacly like in chart posted above ( i checked it and stall occurs at correct speed and G load) but just i think our stick movement/delfection dont corensponded well with these what should be happend with plane. So it would be good to have more longer stick deflection until stall come. And yes i got tweaked curves for pitch but still it doesnt feel right to me :)
gavagai Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 The P-51 is well known for abrupt departures. That is a consequence of its (partially) laminar flow wing. P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria
EvilBivol-1 Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) ED's philosopy is to make the model as accurate as possible despite the fact that our hardware does not correspond well to the movement and feel of the real controls. Some options for easier control may be provided (like the takeoff assistant), but when flying with fully realistic settings, it's up to the user, not the model, to compensate for hardware inconsistencies between the sim and the real thing. Input curves, longer throw devices, force feedback devices, etc. Flying the P-51 with a MSFFB2 is great, because it gives you a little vibration when you're approaching the stall and it becomes very easy to fly it right on the edge. You also get stronger stick forces as airspeed increases and are able to correctly trim the elevator and ailerons with actual stick trim. If you are new to the DCS Mustang, please take a little time to try different input settings and give yourself a chance to learn the behavior before concluding that it is incorrect. Edited March 27, 2013 by EvilBivol-1 - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules
recoilfx Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 We need better buffeting effects for the non-FFB users. For one, msffb2 has insanely short throw, and i rather use my long throw modded Warthog. The cockpit buffeting is a welcome, but it's useless while tracking bandits and the cockpit is not in view. We need something like sound feedback...
Echo38 Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 I should point out that I have much greater difficulty flying in sims those aircraft which I have flown in the real world. The reason? Flimsy, short plastic joysticks. Even a high-end gaming joystick is rubbish compared to the real deal.
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