1.2.4 CHANGE LOG

[Raven68]

I think the 6DoF inclusion is a prelude to a full DCS product of these types.

 

+1 Great times are coming!!

[Hoot]

Do you even know what FC means? Do you even know what FC1 was about?

 

A question in return: do you know what Flanker 2.0 was about? 'cause that is where I had started long before your registration date.

 

I was not writing about su25t historical connection with the FC title.

 

The lines were about business. I do not know how all the titles are stated in ED's balance but if there is nothing special then the World development (atm - patches, upgrades like 6DOF cockpits, etc) does not generate profit and all the costs are covered by other modules including FC3. Which means the above mentioned titles must have some RE to cover World dev. costs including the possible 6DOF cockpit for su25t which is part of the World.

Most of the members here do understand this but just to be sure that zaelu and I have the mutual understanding I'll sum up:

 

DCS World-only development (items not used in other modules) depends on other modules' sales.

With the same rate of items being sold in order to increase the amount of work done on the discussed topic either the price for other modules should be increased to reallocate the additional earnings or these mini-addons like cockpits should be sold separately.

 

I hope everyone sharing zaelu's point of view does get me right about my line quoted by zaelu.

 

Edited April 17, 2013 by Hoot

[112th_Rossi]

Now now kids...

[Cedaway]

Money is what makes a company survive... as mention, I think the community would still be willing to pay a few more dollars for the remaining 6dof cockpit. Honestly IMO without them, FC3 seems half done.

 

Can't agree.

ED has gone further than initial plans concerning FC3.

I'm OK with the fact that some people would spend extra bucks for 6DOF pit per aircraft but do you think it would be profitable for them to create those, which is extensive work, for some people than focus on new projects for everyone?

Basically, as a company manager, would you like to put a 3D modeler at work for 6DOF FC3 pit to gain few bucks or would you want to ask your modeler the same amount of work but for a product that will be selling much more?

I personaly prefer see ED moving further to steps forward than stay on same stage for eternity.

We all know now they are working hard on EDGE (new rendering engine) among other DCS modules to come, improvements on the scripting engine, (maybe research on multi-threading but that's a guesstimate done after reading a 2007-2008 post, damn, can't find it back)

 

So was I happy after having read the Wags's post explaining the facts. And it's clear that if the company would survive, they have to produce/release something new to have incomes,... to spend on R/D, patches, modules,...

[Rotorhead]

Just came back from work and found this one. Great news, thanks ED!

 

Can't wait to see the new FW-190, at least as AI! It means, our Mustang will no more be a lone WW2 child hopelessly lost in the middle of a wrong century's battlefield. :) First step to great future!

 

However, to the FC3 discussion (even if I don't own FC3, at least not yet):

 

Agreed, was never advertised, however why the double standard? Half of them now have 6dof cockpit, but not the mig29 or the su33. I would be willing to fork out a few more dollars… I wish to have all my planes with 6Dof cockpit, especially my beloved mig :smilewink:

 

I'm fully with Moose on this one. These multiple (rather than double) standards bother me. Some aircraft have AFM, some have 6DOF pits, some have new 3D model, some have nothing of it, some have it all.

 

I can completely understand the reasons behind this (company resources, more efforts moved towards future modules, or, for example, AFM ported from A-10C to FC3's Hog), and I don't blame ED for it. But when I buy a sim, I want everything on the same level, not just some parts.

 

Well, end of my rant. Once again, great news! :thumbup:

[Cedaway]

I just figured that for the people who have knew LOMAC (or LOACS in some countries), and thus have some knowledge over the 'genesis' of the sim, they would understand more easily than the 'newcomers' or people that just discovered the 'series' for whom it's confusing to see different level of fidelity in the sim. Just like Rotorhead just mentionned: "These multiple (rather than double) standards bother me".

[112th_Rossi]

I suppose this is just the start.

 

Now DCS:World is being realised as great platform for third party development we will see more and more modules being added with all the fidelity as A10C if not more so and 'game level' sim modules being marginalised as we see the 'DCS' standard being fleshed out.

 

FC3 is great, but everyone wants to press those buttons and twiddle those knobs. Once we've had steak it'll be hard to go back to burger. (even though I love a good cheese burger! MMm)

[Raven68]

Look at it this way...

 

It's all FC3 aircraft 6DOF = more time, little return. ED may struggle, letting some staff go or even sink.

 

or

 

Most FC3 aircraft 6DOF = ready to be released now. Resources are now focused on new DCS aircraft. More profitable content for the future. ED is more profitable and can keep staff on board for future products.

[[DBS]TH0R]

No mention of a fix for the fps drop after enabling force feedback with a msffb2 joystick? Maybe 1.2.5?

 

Lets hope the just omitted it from the list. :)

[zaelu]

A question in return: do you know what Flanker 2.0 was about? 'cause that is where I had started long before your registration date.

 

I was not writing about su25t historical connection with the FC title.

 

The lines were about business. I do not know how all the titles are stated in ED's balance but if there is nothing special then the World development (atm - patches, upgrades like 6DOF cockpits, etc) does not generate profit and all the costs are covered by other modules including FC3. Which means the above mentioned titles must have some RE to cover World dev. costs including the possible 6DOF cockpit for su25t which is part of the World.

Most of the members here do understand this but just to be sure that zaelu and I have the mutual understanding I'll sum up:

 

DCS World-only development (items not used in other modules) depends on other modules' sales.

With the same rate of items being sold in order to increase the amount of work done on the discussed topic either the price for other modules should be increased to reallocate the additional earnings or these mini-addons like cockpits should be sold separately.

 

I hope everyone sharing zaelu's point of view does get me right about my line quoted by zaelu.

 

I am sure you also understood me. :beer:

[Hoot]

Most FC3 aircraft 6DOF = ready to be released now.

 

"Most" and balanced for sides:

blue - 1 fighter, 1 ground-attack

red - 1 fighter, 1 ground-attack;

with the fighters chosen being most popular among those in the game.:smartass:

[Grim_Smiles]

Basically, as a company manager, would you like to put a 3D modeler at work for 6DOF FC3 pit to gain few bucks or would you want to ask your modeler the same amount of work but for a product that will be selling much more?

I personaly prefer see ED moving further to steps forward than stay on same stage for eternity.

 

ED isn't required to be the one to produce the 6DOF cockpits, a third party developer could easily be the ones to do it instead, and for all we know one might already be doing this - perhaps even as a prelude to producing an A-10C style module for that aircraft.

 

The 3D pit from that module could then be put into it's specific FC3 counterpart just without the clickable cockpit. I'm sure you have to make a base cockpit model before you start making everything interact with a mouse. The FC3 aircraft then essentially become the arcade mode of the full sim version. In addition if you make the exterior 3D model for, as an example, a MiG-29A there is no point to having two different models for a MiG-29A in DCS World.

 

As another possibility it could even be offered by the 3rd party separate to their full sim - either buy the sim at full price, or if you don't want to fly a study sim (I have friends who don't have any desire to touch something like A-10C but wouldn't have a problem buying FC3) you can buy just the watered-down cockpit and model separately for your FC3 version for a lower price. Those who want a study sim will buy the full version, but you still get income from those who wouldn't bother with that level of detail.

 

In the mean time nothing like this is going to happen any time soon, so we turn to the next sim that is put out and keep our fingers crossed.

[Rotorhead]

I just figured that for the people who have knew LOMAC (or LOACS in some countries), and thus have some knowledge over the 'genesis' of the sim, they would understand more easily than the 'newcomers' or people that just discovered the 'series' for whom it's confusing to see different level of fidelity in the sim. Just like Rotorhead just mentionned: "These multiple (rather than double) standards bother me".

 

Just for the record, I still have my original LOMAC disk. :)

 

I suppose this is just the start.

 

Now DCS:World is being realised as great platform for third party development we will see more and more modules being added with all the fidelity as A10C if not more so and 'game level' sim modules being marginalised as we see the 'DCS' standard being fleshed out.

 

FC3 is great, but everyone wants to press those buttons and twiddle those knobs. Once we've had steak it'll be hard to go back to burger. (even though I love a good cheese burger! MMm)

 

Hard to say, even if majority of the people here wants full-blown DCS standard, some 3rd party devs may come with mid-fidelity modules at some point. Personally, I'm not going to buy anything without 6DOF clickable pit and AFM (unless it's really super hot plane), but I have no problem with multiple fidelity modules as long as they are avertised as such. My problem with FC3, however, is that you get several different standards in ONE package, and that's just a little too much for me to accept.

[112th_Rossi]

I do agree. The feel of FC3 is a bit random and for the price $49.99 I feel that, if FC3 is meant to be a lighter introduction to flight simming, the price could turn away potential new players.

 

I don't know how popular FC3 is compared to other products but I really think DCS should use FC3 as a carrot to entice new fliers to the sim. $24.99 is a fairer price to pay. Personally I would of paid $59.99 or more for A10C considering the amount of time I have put into it. I really think the price should reflect the overall depth (not necessarily quality) of the product.

 

I understand Eagle put a lot of time and effort in to FC3 but we all know it just isn't the same as a study sim.

 

Sometimes I think it would of been better to release the FC3 SFM aircraft separately as $14.99 modules rather than a package of aircraft that a fair few simmers are not that interested in.

[Rikus]

I personaly prefer see ED moving further to steps forward than stay on same stage for eternity

 

Me too.

 

I hope we won´t see FC4 or more... I think FC series must end here

 

Hard to say, even if majority of the people here wants full-blown DCS standard, some 3rd party devs may come with mid-fidelity modules at some point. Personally, I'm not going to buy anything without 6DOF clickable pit and AFM

 

So do lot of people i know

 

Greetings

[TZeer]

I do agree. The feel of FC3 is a bit random and for the price $49.99 I feel that, if FC3 is meant to be a lighter introduction to flight simming, the price could turn away potential new players.

 

I don't know how popular FC3 is compared to other products but I really think DCS should use FC3 as a carrot to entice new fliers to the sim. $24.99 is a fairer price to pay. Personally I would of paid $59.99 or more for A10C considering the amount of time I have put into it. I really think the price should reflect the overall depth (not necessarily quality) of the product.

 

I understand Eagle put a lot of time and effort in to FC3 but we all know it just isn't the same as a study sim.

 

Sometimes I think it would of been better to release the FC3 SFM aircraft separately as $14.99 modules rather than a package of aircraft that a fair few simmers are not that interested in.

 

You seem to forget that anyone can download DCS World for FREE, and already include a

SU-25 version. If that is not enough carrot to make them interested, I don't think $24.99 would make much difference.

 

No one is forcing anyone to pay anything. It's up to each and every one if they feel the entertainment they get from any module is worth the money they pay.

 

Compare any module in DCS World with any AAA game title on the market today. Then compare how much you have payed per hour of entertainment for that title.

 

Most single player games have a playtime of about 10 hours to complete it. In DCS I have over 100 hours online, flying with friends. Then you can start adding the time with SP and messing about in the editor.

[f-18hornet]

Great stuff... all that AI fix network etc...

 

Question.

 

1 TWS2 mode on the MIG will need auto lock selector... how will we NOT lock up friendlies... and or select target of intrest

 

2 EOS vertical scan is not on the list. It should be adressed

 

3 week landing gears/ repair not fixing the landing gears after breaking them

 

4 when players splash each other in the kill msg line will not display name of initiator...

 

I've same questions about those things.

Anyway nice change list!!:thumbup:

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

thx ED for the info!thx Raven for asking :)

im really delighted by the FW190 AI news....cant wait to at least look at it or fight it until i cant take the seat for the first time in hopefully a couple of months....just brilliant!

[SkateZilla]

Listen... I see you're new here :D . How about you do some homework before you post such funny thing?

 

Do you even know what FC means? Do you even know what FC1 was about?

 

We get it is not a priority... after all it had the best cockpit at some point... We get it it will eat some resources... etc... but don't come and tell us that Su25T has NOTHING to do with FC3 cause we just can't help ourselves laughing. :lol:

 

P.S. Please count me in also for 10euros for an updated 6DoF Su25T cockpit, even 3rd party. And 15 if clickable and advanced avionics etc... Thank you.

 

The SU-25T is NOT Part of Flaming Cliffs 3, it's A Free Aircraft Included with DCSW.

 

 

 

As for remaining User Aircraft that dont have 6DoF,

 

It prolly wouldnt be that hard for 3rd parties to build one, and place the connectors.

If the System's Data is stored elsewhere.

[SkateZilla]

I think the 6DoF inclusion is a prelude to a full DCS product of these types.

 

Same here, Im pretty sure if you load the new 6DoF Pits in the EDM Viewer, they prolly have Arg Animations for Switches and knobs, as well as connectors, There's no need to have those if you dont intend on making the Cockpit clickable.

 

:joystick:

[112th_Rossi]

Same here, Im pretty sure if you load the new 6DoF Pits in the EDM Viewer, they prolly have Arg Animations for Switches and knobs, as well as connectors, There's no need to have those if you dont intend on making the Cockpit clickable.

 

:joystick:

 

Or making it easier for third party devs to program the cockpit?

[SkateZilla]

Well, I wasnt Surprised when DCS: F-15C was announced, cuz the F-15C 6DoF had all the Animations and Connectors for the switches already.

 

I was able to code some switch functions for some things in the F-15C Pit, but the Advanced Systems Coding is Beyond my capabilities.

 

So I just Saved it for later and put the original LUA Files back.

[Lord_Pyro]

But who is telling you that the DCS F15c will be at the same developementstage as the FC3 F15c? Maybe they want to build a newer model and that would affect the pit ;)

[SkateZilla]

But who is telling you that the DCS F15c will be at the same developementstage as the FC3 F15c? Maybe they want to build a newer model and that would affect the pit ;)

 

Why Build the Pit for FC3 and Animate all the Switches and Knobs, as well as Place connectors for them all plus the displays, if you're not gonna use them.

 

All they have to Do to bring FC3's F-15C Assets to DCS F-15C Fidelity is:

A. Code the Systems

B. Develop the AFM

C. Write the Manual

 

with A being a large chunk of the development.

 

Pit is Done,

External EDM is Done with Damage and AFM Animations already Done.

[112th_Rossi]

As much as it's cool to have a DCS: F15C i'm not sure I'm that excited about it. I find BVR capable fighters and a2a only fighers in general just so dull.