SEAD missiles .

[Esac_mirmidon]

I´ve made more test and the MP missing is not because SAM sites turn on/of the radar or the MP beeing intercepted at all by anything. They simply miss by excess. ALWAYS.

 

Try something. Put a OSA somewhere and attack with MP ( the 58 works fine ). Launch missiles every 5 kilometers away ( 20-15-10-5 Km ). Note that all the time i´m blocked, my RWR lits up and the red block light and sound are always ON.

 

Even more, in the last MP shoot i´ve wait for the OSA to launch against me to be 100% sure the radar is ON and emiting.

 

Every missile miss the target, and i eat the OSA missile AFTER all my MP misses.

 

The Kh-58 don´t suffer this issue.

[Kameni]

Update: Video is rendering. Will start upload in less than half hour and will take some time to upload (85 Mb @speed of 0.86mbps)

Everything is explained in it. 50% rendering at the moment.

[Kameni]

I´ve made more test and the MP missing is not because SAM sites turn on/of the radar or the MP beeing intercepted at all by anything. They simply miss by excess. ALWAYS.

 

They are not shot down indeed, but it is not "simply by excess". You will see, I explained it inside the video it self. Sorry for the lousy text and animation, I rushed it. Didn't try to make it pretty, but useful. :D

Both 25 and 58 have the same "issue" but it affects 25 more because of different performances of two different missiles.

 

Update: Video available in 30 minutes TOP.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Kameni

[Kameni]

As you will see in the video - Anti-Radiation Missiles act as if they follow the emission, but not scripted location of the emitter (radar instalation) itself. Let's say it goes to the point in front of antenna where emission is strongest. If the antenna is facing opposite of you - it is a very probable miss, because the missile will target some 2 meters behind/over the radar emitter itself. But, as you will see in the video, rotating antennas are even bigger problem.

Now, I believe ED tried to make a less scripted thus more realistic targeting system, but it's effects are to excessive - obviously and need correction. Or it's scripted with a script that made it worse. (If I really got all of this right, as it seems). Sorry Badger, there really is something different than it used to be. Now ED must tell us is this realistic, or we all buy a KUB and shoot at it with KH25MPU to test the missiles :D

 

 

Now watch the video and pay attention to details I've spoken of in this comment and give us your 2 cents. Hopefully, ED will react with an answer. :)

VIDEO IS LONGER THAN 1.23 if it shows you incorrect time stamp - JUST WATCH IT TO THE END.

 

Link to the video: Youtube Video

 

No explanation why they blow-up in your face for now, more than before, except for possibility that when antenna turns away from you it reacts as if it lost the source of radiation. Or they really do loose it (SR you shot at turns off, but TR is still active, so it shoots at you) - but this is long shot.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Kameni

[Esac_mirmidon]

So why Kh-58 always hit a rotary radar SAM, and Kh-25 MP always miss a rotary radar SAM?

 

Fixed Radar Sam get hited by Kh-25 MP ?

[Kameni]

I never said "always" but you have seen my missile shot a target. So they don't miss always. I've had kills with KH25MPU since 1.2.4. but we are scratching the surface here. Need more testing. On the other hand, ED has the knowledge of what did they change so they have the absolutely correct answer. Again: Hopefully someone will tell us something soon...

And the "rotary" isn't the only problem here, it is also the aspect of point from where you fire the missile to the location/bearing of the antenna beam.

And I did not shoot 58 at full-rotary emitter in the video. Also, take notice that not all the "designated points to act as targets" need to be correctly placed. You see that the 58U targets lower plate of the radar, diverting to the left of it's vertical center. That means that the point in space which acts as a target to missile is lower than the antenna itself.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Kameni

[Kameni]

SEAD Missiles Explained?

 

Since we didn't have any input on this subject "from The Authorities" I am making a duplicate subject. Please, explain to us what had happened here:

 

As you will see in the video - Anti-Radiation Missiles act as if they follow the emission, but not scripted location of the emitter (radar instalation) itself. Let's say it goes to the point in front of antenna where emission is strongest. If the antenna is facing opposite of you - it is a very probable miss, because the missile will target some 2 meters behind/over the radar emitter itself. But, as you will see in the video, rotating antennas may be even bigger problem.

 

 

Now watch the video and pay attention to details I've spoken of in this comment and give us your 2 cents.

 

 

Link to the video: Youtube Video

 

No explanation why they blow-up in your face for now, more than before, except for possibility that when antenna turns away from you it reacts as if it lost the source of radiation. Or they really do loose it (SR you shot at turns off, but TR is still active, so it shoots at you) - but this is long shot.

[Kameni]

And now my ML missiles decided to DISSAPEAR right after fired!!!!

They didn't blew up, 'cause I didn't sustain damage.

[59th_Wittman]

Confirm!

 

H-25MPU unusable, missed all target. H-58 work well!

 

This bug is not in DCS World 1.2.3, only 1.2.4.11652 and 1.2.4.11855!

[marcoacv]

I fly with Su25T since Flaming cliffs 1.11 .

I can confirm 25mpu has a issue in 1.2.4 version.

[Comes]

In Single Player SEAD words just fine for me. As soon as I try Multiplayer all the Anti Radar Missiles blow up right in Front of me, a few seconds after I launch them. :(

[Boris]

In Single Player SEAD words just fine for me. As soon as I try Multiplayer all the Anti Radar Missiles blow up right in Front of me, a few seconds after I launch them. :(

 

Yeah, I experienced the same thing yesterday...

[Outlaw]

All sead missiles exploding in the air for me few seconds after lunch in single and multiplayer (used auto updater)

[badger66]

Well , last night I did 2 sead runs and another guy did one without a single hit . As far as Im concerned SEAD is a load of crap and a pointless exercise to support anything .

 

Now , we are talking 18 missiles without 1 hit ..... something is either wrong with the missiles of the missile defence batterys are too strong . I wasn't aware that most missile batterys can shoot down a sead missile , some can , some cant .

 

So , whit this said , I wont be flying the 25T anymore , until this is addressed . Ive also had the same as outlaw above ..... and its not because it was hit by a missile either , cuz there was never a launch warning or visible trail from the launcher .

 

Anyone back me up on this ?

[Outlaw]

Still having the same issue after last update

[MadDog-IC]

Well , last night I did 2 sead runs and another guy did one without a single hit . As far as Im concerned SEAD is a load of crap and a pointless exercise to support anything .

 

Now , we are talking 18 missiles without 1 hit ..... something is either wrong with the missiles of the missile defence batterys are too strong . I wasn't aware that most missile batterys can shoot down a sead missile , some can , some cant .

 

So , whit this said , I wont be flying the 25T anymore , until this is addressed . Ive also had the same as outlaw above ..... and its not because it was hit by a missile either , cuz there was never a launch warning or visible trail from the launcher .

 

Anyone back me up on this ?

 

 

Yep , I've had the same frustration, I have just started to learn the SU-25t, the anti radiation has changed so much from 1.23 that it is now useless.

 

I played the stock Command post strike and can't kill a single Radar guided missile platform, and they are actively firing at the support aircraft flat out.

 

I have tried flying nap of earth at 100m agl and poping up at last moment and lauching at 1-2km with kh-25mpu, sometimes the kh-58, other times, flowen at 4000m and launched at various distances, all with in firing range of the selected antiradiation missiles and never one single kill, (yes locked properly with the elint pod).

 

Mean while other AI SU-25T, SU-30, SU-27 aircraft in support that have antiradiation missles are dropping them like flies with no worries at all.

 

The radar warning reciever also seems quite useless, as I don't know how many times, I have been locked onto for some time, I ignore it, whilst looking at the attackers position, I see the missle launch and watch it tracking me, but still no missle alert from the RWR, just as it is about to hit me, the RWR either goes off then, or never does (not very helpfull).

 

I even made my own mission with all of the different classed of Anti-Aircraft missile launch systems and practiced in that, with pretty much the same results.

 

So I am in the same boat as you and have stopped playing the SU-25t for the time being, looking into the A-10c or go back to the Black shark again.

 

Hope it gets fixed soon

 

Cheers, Ian

[DCS_Thor]

Yep, same story here.

 

While I was flying SEAD with the Su-25T in MP all my launched 25-MPU´s miss the targets. I tried it severeal times and never saw any 25-MPU hitting anything.

No difference was observed if they are launched in single or salvo mode or at high or low altitude.

 

The KH-58 are working properly (except that they sometimes explode directly after launch, but that issues has been fixied with the latest patch as far as I got it).

[macieksoft]

IF the case is that SEAD missile auto-destructs when it looses target's emission

 

They auto destruct even when target have radar turned on all the time.

Looks like they auto destuct randomly.

[Outlaw]

Yep, same story here.

 

While I was flying SEAD with the Su-25T in MP all my launched 25-MPU´s miss the targets. I tried it severeal times and never saw any 25-MPU hitting anything.

No difference was observed if they are launched in single or salvo mode or at high or low altitude.

 

The KH-58 are working properly (except that they sometimes explode directly after launch, but that issues has been fixied with the latest patch as far as I got it).

 

Nope not yet fixed here, all sead missiles explode in air after lunch

[Mustang]

I don't understand this, I've flown many SEAD missions since this update and haven't seen this exploding bug once :huh:

[Angel101]

Nope not yet fixed here, all sead missiles explode in air after lunch

 

Maybe you must try after dinner :lol:

[maturin]

Both kinds of SEAD missiles are grossly inaccurate. They shoot high. The radar stays on, and no defensive measure are taken. Simple as that.

 

Tested it in and out in multiple SP missions.

[DCS_Thor]

Both kinds of SEAD missiles are grossly inaccurate. They shoot high. The radar stays on, and no defensive measure are taken. Simple as that.

 

Tested it in and out in multiple SP missions.

 

Agreed, during my tests I observed the same. No 25-MPU was defended, they just miss the target by several meters. All launched missiles hit the same spot while I was watching them using F6 (weapon view).

I have checked also, that the enemy SAM (Osa system) has not changed its position during the missile approach at all and that its radar was online all time.

 

However, I dont have any issues with the KH-58 like others.

I´m wondering why people get different observations using the same missile types?! Could this problem somehow be mission or SAM type dependent?

 

 

EDIT:

Here is a track demonstrating the problem with the 25-MPUs I have. Hope it helps fixing the issue.

 

Launched 4 25-MPUs´s at a SA-8 and all miss by a few meters. Launched 1 Kh-58 and the target is hit and destroyed.

 

Curiously, in the debriefing screen all 4 of the 25´s are counted as a hit but there is no visible damage to the target. And no, the SAM was not set to invulnerable, checked it :smartass:

server-20130517-170444.trk

Edited May 17, 2013 by DCS_Thor

[DiCE81]

Kh-58U in the face

 

When I shot the Kh-58U antirradar missile, explodes near of my aircraftKh-58U failed.trk

[macieksoft]

Its very common issue.

 

Often happens to me with Kh-58 aswell as Kh-25MPU.

 

There are so many posts about this issue on this forum.