Assumed knowledge.

[Piraneous]

I've spent the last couple of months learning how to operate the A10 and I feel I'm at a point now where I should be able to successfully complete missions. Apart from the frustrations of never actually being able to find anything to shoot unless I'm given a waypoint or JTAC call with exact co-ords for targets, I'm also getting frustrated with not knowing what seems to be assumed knowledge.

 

The main thing I'm referring to are things like common waypoint names, and what to do at said WP. Some I have encountered recently are:

 

IP

FENCE

ORBIT

MSN1 etc

 

A couple I can assume, but others I have no idea about. I also have no idea what is meant by a lot of radio calls, e.g. "Mudspike" or "pop-up blah blah hot" etc.

 

Can anyone point me in the direction of a good tutorial on these kinds of things? Or one that covers basic operating procedures for flying a mission?

[ENO]

IP will generally be an "initial point" where you may be expected to orbit and wait for instructions / further talk on to a general target area. (Edit- would later learn that what I'm describing is a "Contact Point." Eddie describes IP as "the point from which you begin your attack run on the the target and will normally be between 5 and 10 NM fro target depending on the weapon/attack type to be employed.")

 

Fence (for Fence in / out) basically gives you a chance to flip on your master arm, verify your profiles are set, mavs EO is on, lights off, etc.

 

Orbit- probably exactly what it suggests... orbit the location and either wait for instructions or further talk on to specific targets.

 

MSN1 may just be a pertinent waypoint put in place to walk you across a trigger that may help keep things moving.

 

A lot of the jargon is pretty easy to interpret- mudspike for example is simply a radar lock / track from a SAM (ground) unit. Not sure about pop up...

 

Come to think of it I'm not sure if there's a single resource out there that explains what all of it means. There is a document out there on standard military "jargon" that does cover many of these points. I'll see if I can find it- it's linked in another thread but likely 10 pages back by now.

 

I'll see what I can dig up.

 

 

Edit:

 

Here's a link to some brevity code: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/101-5-1/f545-ae.htm

Here's a link to another thread for "beginners." http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=72125&highlight=jargon

Edited May 29, 2013 by ENO

[Snoopy]

Try this...doesn't have all brevity terms in it but it's a good start.

 

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA404426

[ApoNOOB]

From Enos first link: Popup - Informative call that a contact has suddenly appeared.

 

The AWACS will give you BRA - Bearing Range Altitude (300° 80miles @ 10k feet for example). With AWACS you have to be a bit careful, sometimes he only tells the bearing from bullseye (he will say so) but if you call him directly and ask for bogey dope he will tell you the nearest threat from your position.

 

Use this (with FC3 or later DCS Jets) in Multiplayer to communicate with other players. Best tip for new players is to get online, join one of the big servers/communitys and get on their TS3. All those months you wasted to learn stuff on your own that somebody can explain to you in 5 sentences alone is worth it. :)

[ENO]

All those months you wasted to learn stuff on your own that somebody can explain to you in 5 sentences alone is worth it. :)

 

 

This x 1 million.

[Digital Aura]

"bogey dope" ... lol

I mean, c'mon.

[Robert1983NL]

A lot of the jargon is pretty easy to interpret- mudspike for example is simply a radar lock / track from a SAM (ground) unit. Not sure about pop up...

A 'mud spike' is a contradiction. It's really a bullshit call. Since mud is GROUND based air defence, and spike is an AIRBORNE search radar.

[IonicRipper]

^ I've always heard mudspike both in DCS and Falcon BMS... Are you sure?

[Robert1983NL]

Yes I am.

 

Just like fence in and out are used the wrong way around... You start at your own base. When you leave you fence out. You go 'over your own fence into the enemy territory'. Fence in/fence out isn't even really used... The correct call is just: fence checks.

 

So yeah, there's a lot of knowledge in these communities, but a lot of it isn't correct.

[Eddie]

MUD (type w/direction/ range if able): Informative call Indicating RWR ground threat displayed with no launch indication.

 

SINGER (type/direction: Informative call of RWR indication of SAM launch.

 

NAILS (direction): RWR indication of AI radar in search

 

SPIKE(D) (direction): RWR indication of an AI threat in track or launch.

 

Eno's description of an IP is also a bit off. What he is describing there is a CP (Contact Point). An IP is the point from which you begin your attack run on the the target and will normally be between 5 and 10 NM fro target depending on the weapon/attack type to be employed.

[ENO]

Thanks for the correction!

[IdleBoards]

Yes I am.

 

Just like fence in and out are used the wrong way around... You start at your own base. When you leave you fence out. You go 'over your own fence into the enemy territory'. Fence in/fence out isn't even really used... The correct call is just: fence checks.

 

So yeah, there's a lot of knowledge in these communities, but a lot of it isn't correct.

 

 

Hi Robert,

 

Perhaps your country's/service's usage of the term is different, but the US Air Force does indeed use the terminology "FENCE in", and "FENCE out".

 

The FENCE in checks are done when entering the combat area; FENCE out checks are done on the way out.

 

It's taught that way right from day one at IFF.

[Kaiza]

So yeah, there's a lot of knowledge in these communities, but a lot of it isn't correct.

 

Including your own sometimes.

 

@ 3:03

[Piraneous]

thanks for all the posts guys. its helped somewhat. I'm still about to quit trying with this game on account of never being able to see anything. My last mission was a quick launch game. I entered the game, imediatly put myself into a holding orbit and started writing down bullseye calls. continued to circle while not actually finding targets, then got shot down by 2 migs who apparently (according to the track playback) were tailing me for about 2 mins before killing me and i didn't even see them once...

 

 

frustration...

[Rangi]

A 'mud spike' is a contradiction. It's really a bullshit call. Since mud is GROUND based air defence, and spike is an AIRBORNE search radar.

 

Spike originally was used to mean any radar emission/return detected. Now for the sake of brevity spike is left for airborne and mud spike for ground. Spike originally comes from the early radar oscilloscope type displays where a return would be a 'spike' in the graph.

[Robert1983NL]

Those type of displays are still very much used. But mud spike is just an incorrect call. Brevity wise terrible as well. How I'm used to using it:

 

Spike(d): airborne radar searching

Mud: Ground based air defence

Spotted: search radar sees you

Tracking: Threat is tracking you

[311Gryphon]

Those type of displays are still very much used. But mud spike is just an incorrect call. Brevity wise terrible as well. How I'm used to using it:

 

Spike(d): airborne radar searching

Mud: Ground based air defence

Spotted: search radar sees you

Tracking: Threat is tracking you

 

Interrogative: what would be the call if a ground based air defense radar is searching, has spotted you, or is tracking you?

 

I have no real world experience but it seems that mud spike is hardly less brief than spike. Obviously it is longer but it's a very short syllable and I can't think of too much that it could be confused with. But like I said, I've only got game experience and that doesn't count for much.

 

Thanks.

[Eddie]

Interrogative: what would be the call if a ground based air defense radar is searching, has spotted you, or is tracking you?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1773360&postcount=10

[Crescendo]

Those type of displays are still very much used. But mud spike is just an incorrect call. Brevity wise terrible as well. How I'm used to using it:

 

Spike(d): airborne radar searching

Mud: Ground based air defence

Spotted: search radar sees you

Tracking: Threat is tracking you

 

A couple of things:

 

1. The brevity term SPIKE does not denote an airborne radar that is searching. A SPIKE call means an airborne radar is locking/tracking you or supporting a missile launched at you.

 

2. The correct brevity term for an airborne radar in search mode is NAILS.

 

3. "Spotted" and "Tracking" are not brevity terms. In a discussion where we are trying to establish correct brevity usage, introducing your own terms without explicitly saying so serves only to confuse the matter. Further, how exactly do you know whether or not your aircraft has been "spotted"? Just because you have a threat on your RWR doesn't necessarily mean this threat actually sees you on his scope.

 

4. FENCE IN and FENCE OUT are valid brevity terms for entering and exiting the combat area, respectively. User Idle/Boards covered this.

 

---

 

You have posted misinformation in this thread that is likely to confuse people, yet ironically you have presented yourself as a source of truth ("there's a lot of knowledge in these communities, but a lot of it isn't correct"). When it comes to pedantic details like terminology, brevity, abbreviations and so on, it pays to be humble and conservative in your claims. Don't be so hasty to declare what is and what isn't true, especially so stridently.

 

Now, I'm no pilot and I have no military experience, so I can only go by published US military and NATO documents. What I have said is supported by those documents to the best of my knowledge. If I have made any mistakes please correct me.

[Robert1983NL]

Interrogative: what would be the call if a ground based air defense radar is searching, has spotted you, or is tracking you?

 

I have no real world experience but it seems that mud spike is hardly less brief than spike. Obviously it is longer but it's a very short syllable and I can't think of too much that it could be confused with. But like I said, I've only got game experience and that doesn't count for much.

 

Thanks.

'spotted', means a ground based search radar is searching and has spotted you.

If it's tracking, it's 'mud tracking'.

 

The reason why spike and mudspike are terrible calls is because they look so much a like. If mud is missed, or misheard, it could be an airborne radar instead of groundbased.

[Crescendo]

Interrogative: what would be the call if a ground based air defense radar is searching, has spotted you, or is tracking you?

 

I have no real world experience but it seems that mud spike is hardly less brief than spike. Obviously it is longer but it's a very short syllable and I can't think of too much that it could be confused with. But like I said, I've only got game experience and that doesn't count for much.

 

Thanks.

 

See Eddie's post.

 

If a ground-based radar is searching, the brevity term would be MUD, i.e. "Hog 1, MUD 2, Left 10". This would mean that I see an SA-2 on my RWR at 10 o'clock, and he is not launching a missile at me.

 

There is no brevity term for when a ground-based radar spots you. How would you know if a ground-based radar actually sees you on his scope? His radar might be emitting enough energy for your RWR to pick it up, but you might be too far away for him to get a radar contact.

 

If a ground-based radar launches a missile at you and/or is supporting a missile launch, the brevity term is SINGER, i.e. "Hog 1, SINGER 2, Left 10". This would mean that, according to my RWR, an SA-2 at 10 o'clock has launched a missile at me. It would not be correct to use SINGER if you just happen to see a random SAM launch, because this SAM is not aimed at you according to your RWR. In those cases you should just say "SAM LAUNCH".

 

Now, as far as I can tell this is no brevity term for a ground-based radar that is tracking/locking you. Why not? I don't know. Perhaps the military has decided that there is simply no need to make it known that a ground threat is locking you up, because in the real world tactics/doctine dictate you immediately maneuver to avoid that threat. So conceivably a tracking/locking call is not needed: either you are egressing the threat area already and therefore being locked up is moot, or the SAM has already launched in which case you would use a SINGER call.

 

So why does an airborne radar get a combination tracking/lock/launch brevity term (SPIKE), but a ground-based radar doesn't? I've already speculated a little above, but at least one reason why you would be interested in an airborne-specific track/lock call is because the bandit is mobile and can't necessarily be avoided like a SAM. That is to say, a track/lock is a good indication of a bandit's intentions, i.e. "This guy is locking me up and, being moible, there is a possibility he can intercept me. I had better let my friends know."

 

MUD SPIKE is confusing call. As you probably now know, MUD is for ground-based searching and SPIKE is for aerial track/lock/launch. Technicaly speaking, the two aren't compatible. The intent of a MUD SPIKE call could probably be derived depending on the context ("I knew what he meant"), but the possibility of confusion/misinterpretation is high if everyone knows their brevity. Furthermore, if you consider my speculation above, the doctrinal utility of knowing if a ground-based radar is locking you up may be negligable if you're already maneuvering to avoid it.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Crescendo

[Nealius]

I thought SINGER was used when the RWR indicates a launch, but no launch can be visually seen? As in visual confirmation that there is no launch is made before announcing SINGER.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Nealius

[Robert1983NL]

A lot of these things change, sometimes eveven every year. I'm just sharing what I know, what I use. I'm an active military pilot.

[Ebs]

[Nealius]

I prefer to skip the "I'm an active military pilot" thing because there's no way for that to be proven. Documents like NATO's Joint Brevity Words Publication APP-7E carry more weight IMO. I have a hard time believing that brevity changes every year. Fox calls and other brevity hasn't changed since Vietnam. Having to relearn brevity every year is completely illogical anyway; there's no need to change it. Any sensitive information is going to be transmitted through secure channels and there are times where you want the enemy to hear things on open channels, like MAGNUM calls to scare SAM sites into shutting down their radars.

 

The reason why spike and mudspike are terrible calls is because they look so much a like. If mud is missed, or misheard, it could be an airborne radar instead of groundbased.

 

Thus why the correct brevity should be MUD for ground and NAILS for air. Not possible for anyone to mishear that.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Nealius