Haswell released today

[porky_pig]

I would like to know what your experiences with it are so far. I might upgrade today, but Microcenter doesnt open up until 11, and Im not exactly sure if they are doing a huge sale on the LGA1150 processors or the LGA1155 IB-e processors.

 

Edit: I take that back. Microcenter has a great deal on the LGA1150 sockets, selling the 4770k for $269, over 100 bucks off retail.

Edited June 2, 2013 by porky_pig

[JG14_Smil]

Looks like you will be telling us how it works after 1100 hours :)

[porky_pig]

Im not dead set on it yet. I have too much stuff on the hard drives to back up to want to tear apart the chassis right now, and I might just buy the stuff and keep them in the box for another 2-3 weeks. Not to mention an awful lot of payware stuff for FSX that needs to be reset, DCS stuff that needs to be deactivated, ghost turds cleaned out of the case....

[porky_pig]

Looks like this weekend Ill be able to quote some new figures. Got the parts, just backing up the hard drives now...only 2 more packages of bluray disks to go.

 

New rig looks like:

Haswell 4770k

Asus Sabertooth z87

Corsair H100i

16gb Corsair Vengeance DDR3 12800

eVGA GTX680 4096

Corsair tx750 psu

OCZ Agility 3 SSD

3x WD Black in RAID-0

 

Anyone who doesnt know yet, old socket cooling fan post hole patterns 2011 and 1155 will fit socket 1150. They are the same 75mm hole spread.

Edited June 3, 2013 by porky_pig

[cichlidfan]

Corsair tx750 psu

 

 

If you don't mind my asking, considering the horsepower and investment you have, why would you not throw another $50 at your PSU and get an AX series?

[porky_pig]

If you don't mind my asking, considering the horsepower and investment you have, why would you not throw another $50 at your PSU and get an AX series?

Because that means I have to spend another 200 dollars on this thing. Im already thinking about getting a 1050w, but from all the wattage calculations Ive ran, I dont need anything more than what I already have. Im upgrading from a 2600k, not intending to build a brand new computer.

[cichlidfan]

Because that means I have to spend another 200 dollars on this thing. Im already thinking about getting a 1050w, but from all the wattage calculations Ive ran, I dont need anything more than what I already have. Im upgrading from a 2600k, not intending to build a brand new computer.

 

Fair enough.

[porky_pig]

On other hand, its still up in the air. Ill see if I need one after overclocking this, but Ive heard this chip doesnt need more than 1v to get to 5ghz. I shall see. If I do, Ill wind up with the ax1050.

[Nopileus]

Even the 750watt has plenty of overhead left, especially since this is a well reputed high quality power supply.

 

The numbers the manufacturers of CPUs and GPUs often throw at you are mainly to make sure that people who cheap out on the PSU get a working machine.

Cheap PSUs are often rated much higher than they can actually deliver and end in fireworks if you try to put some load on them.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Nopileus

[mmaruda]

Some benchmarks here:

 

http://pclab.pl/art53333-4.html

http://pclab.pl/art53333-3.html

 

The links are in Polish, but they are the only test I could find that include simulation games.

 

FSX seems to have a significant boost in relation to Sandy, Arma 2 though, not so much. I wonder how this will perform in DCS.

[SkateZilla]

Haswell is a Intended Mobile Architecture , so .. There's a reason all the reviews are bashing it.

 

and it's sad, when a INTEL Biased website bashes the Haswell chips.

[porky_pig]

Haswell is a Intended Mobile Architecture , so .. There's a reason all the reviews are bashing it.

 

and it's sad, when a INTEL Biased website bashes the Haswell chips.

I find that funny with a 33% increase in performance in FSX when compared to a 2600k. But we'll see.

[HiJack]

It's performing quite well actually but is not the leap of performance we have seen before. I guess this is related to the fact that there is no competition. But then if you are upgrading/replacing a 3-4 years old CPU the Haswell is a good choice, but so is Sandy ;) After reading some of the reviews I will go with Haswell for my upgrade.

[159th_Falcon]

Not quite sure yet.

Why buy an CPU whit integrated gpu if your gonna use an external gpu anyways?

 

Seems like wasted transistors to me which could have been used to make the cpu faster, for less and consume less energy as well.

[Napa]

Not quite sure yet.

Why buy an CPU whit integrated gpu if your gonna use an external gpu anyways?

 

Seems like wasted transistors to me which could have been used to make the cpu faster, for less and consume less energy as well.

 

 

It's time to get down to reading again :book:

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/core_i7_4770k_review,1.html

[sobek]

Not quite sure yet.

Why buy an CPU whit integrated gpu if your gonna use an external gpu anyways?

 

Gamers aren't necessarily the target group any more. Regarding the power, i don't think that the GPU uses much power when it is switched off.

 

In principal, it is a relatively smart move to combine the GPU and CPU on one die, simply because right now shuffling data to the graphics card over the PCIe bus is a huge bottleneck. The closer they are together, the easier it would be for the manufacturer to connect both with a very powerful interface.

[zaelu]

I head they plan to make CPUs BGA glued to Mother Board instead of LGA sockets. Soon with the memory prices going down and sizes going up, I wouldn't be surprised to see a CPU with GPU, and 32/64GB of RAM on it... the Memory controller is already on the dye afaik.

[Dudikoff]

Gamers aren't necessarily the target group any more. Regarding the power, i don't think that the GPU uses much power when it is switched off.

 

It seems that Haswell is more oriented on power savings and GPU performance rather than anything else. But, the strongest integrated GPU version (5200) only comes in BGA packaging (meaning soldered on the mainboard) for both the desktop and mobile CPUs so it seems to be intended only for the all-in-one solutions and ultrabooks (and probably new Macbooks so they can ditch the dedicated GPU and make even thinner laptops). That's a shame for gaming notebooks as because it's relatively powerful, you could use it for not so demanding games to increase the duration you can play on battery, for instance, and save your dedicated GPU for being plugged in.

 

Regarding the GPU being switched off, it's a shame that there's still no Optimus-like solution on desktop mainboards. The power savings on a global scale might be significant enough to make it worthwhile. Yes, the idle GPU usage is much lower these days, but it's still there as the GPU is only downclocked, never really switched off. Lucid guys were promising that with their Virtu MVP, but it also had other features which brought a lot of issues IIRC.

 

In principal, it is a relatively smart move to combine the GPU and CPU on one die, simply because right now shuffling data to the graphics card over the PCIe bus is a huge bottleneck. The closer they are together, the easier it would be for the manufacturer to connect both with a very powerful interface.

 

I think this is done mostly because the integrated graphics share the system RAM plus that the usage is changing so with all the media content nowadays, the typical GPU type calculations are more used than the typical linear loads so it's useful to have such GPU units in the CPU.

 

But, when you're integrating the GPU on the CPU, you're limited by the TDP so it's not really for high or medium class solutions (e.g. IIRC the new Haswell 4950HQ with the 5200 series GPU limits the CPU TDP when the GPU is fully loaded since the TDP is 47W and can be increased up to 55W sustained in such situations and like 69W for a short duration).

[159th_Falcon]

Yes i know, Hasswell is mobile market orientated.

But how hard can it be to strip out the igpu and do something useful whit the space you have left?

 

I mean really, if you're going to use an 4770k, changes are your going to use an external gpu as well.

 

Having an iGPU is great for notebooks and do i know what not, but it's useless for desktops that play anything heavier then full HD movies.

 

I don't see an iGPU on a gaming rig whit two or more monitors for example.

Or any gaming rig for that matter.

 

In the end it comes down to the fact i don't like paying for what i don't use.

Like iGPU's still everyone is trying to let me believe its a great thing.

Well, not for me, along whit millions of other gamers.

[SkateZilla]

the IGP can be used for Physics and other Functions, the Intel Controller actually offloads media functions to the IGP.

 

there's been IGPs in the last 2 or 3 Intel Families, so I dont see why the IGP is getting Negative attention now.

 

Seriously though, all Bashing and AMD Fanboyism Aside... 5 GHz Stable on 989mv.

 

I dont think ANY AMD CPU or APU can do that yet, nor Intel CPUs (Atoms Maybe, but not x86 CPUs).

 

The fact that these chips can operate as low as 600mv stable and use significantly less power than any other Desktop CPU, means it will sell VERY well in areas where Electricity Bills are a big thing.

 

ie In certain countries I see these new chips selling very well, and the new AMD 220w FX9000 Chips barely selling at all.

 

The issues with the new chip is now everyone has to patch/re-program for it.

 

The haswell Chips are faster than IB by a Small Margin, but the power consumption is leaps and bounds Ahead of everything else.

 

Haswell System using IGP for Media Decoding instead of a PCIE Card will use signicantly less power than SB/IB as well as producing LESS Heat.

 

I seriously would consider using HASWELL with the IGP in a Media Center build, Less power, Less Heat, Less Fans, Less Noise.

[EtherealN]

But, when you're integrating the GPU on the CPU, you're limited by the TDP so it's not really for high or medium class solutions (e.g. IIRC the new Haswell 4950HQ with the 5200 series GPU limits the CPU TDP when the GPU is fully loaded since the TDP is 47W and can be increased up to 55W sustained in such situations and like 69W for a short duration).

 

Compare iGP-less Nehalems with iGP-equipped Sandies as far as TDP goes.

I think the main problem is that people expected a leap similar to Nehalem->Sandie, though to be honest it's still too early to really judge that difference.

 

My point being: TDP is not necessarily a link to performance.

[cichlidfan]

In the end it comes down to the fact i don't like paying for what i don't use.

Like iGPU's still everyone is trying to let me believe its a great thing.

Well, not for me, along whit millions of other gamers.

 

Do you own a smart phone? Do you use all of its functions?

 

Btw, those 'millions' of other gamers is a shrinking market.

 

For example, COD Black Ops sales as of 6 months ago were about 8.4 million units. Less than half a million of those were for the PC.

Edited June 5, 2013 by cichlidfan

[porky_pig]

Do you own a smart phone? Do you use all of its functions?

 

Btw, those 'millions' of other gamers is a shrinking market.

 

For example, COD Black Ops sales as of 6 months ago were about 8.4 million units. Less than half a million of those were for the PC.

Thats not really a fair statement, mostly because Black Ops and the MW line are starting to wear themselves out. Take into account of BF3, Crysis 3, and any recently released titles for PC only before announcing a decline in PC gamers. I agree the pc gaming is closely coming to an end, but its still technically a long way off. I suggest waiting for GTA5 to be released before judgement is passed.

[SkateZilla]

PC Gaming is on a Decline because not everyone wants to deal with or can solve driver and software issues that come with it. and the Price Tag to get a Decently competitive rig

*(Trust me, I've built budget builds, and while you save money, those budget parts start to fail quicker, and cause more problems 1-2 years down the road)

 

Buy a Console Play the Game, vs Buy a PC, Download a Update, try to play a game, crashes, email support, try to update drivers, mess things up worse.

 

 

PC Gamers will always be a smaller market, the same way study sims will be a smaller market, cuz the amount of people smart enough to build, diagnose and fix their own gaming PCs isnt as high as the amount of people smart enough to stick a disk in a Console and choose play.

Edited June 5, 2013 by SkateZilla

[joey45]

As soon as PC gaming dies the consoles will follow.