A suggestion to ED DCS World FC versions

[porky_pig]

My concern is what the difference is between what we already have vs what they are now offering. Is the only difference between DCS A-10A vs FC3 A-10A only an AFM? Think Id rather just keep FC3 because now its just pointless to pay again and again and again.

[NRG-Vampire]

My concern is what the difference is between what we already have vs what they are now offering. Is the only difference between DCS A-10A vs FC3 A-10A only an AFM? Think Id rather just keep FC3 because now its just pointless to pay again and again and again.

 

those disjointed/seperated modules are not for you especially if you already bought FC3

these for players who dont wnat to buy FC3 because they already know they will never fly su-25 and a-10a for example

- and for peeling off ubisoft

[159th_Viper]

Chaps, have a look at this:

 

Before you reply I implore you to watch the tracks (or tacviews). The R/ER tracking is shocking and needs to be fixed. Otherwise explain the bipolar nature of the R/ER. Just watch the tacviews...

 

Have you tested with the latest release version, Rage? Reason I ask is that I cannot seem to get the ER's to miss from just above Rtr - 100% success rate from 1st missile launches from 7 engagements, one such engagement illustrated here:

 

QrYYP3GiFw0

 

Or were your tests conducted from RMax?

[104th_Crunch]

My concern is what the difference is between what we already have vs what they are now offering. Is the only difference between DCS A-10A vs FC3 A-10A only an AFM? Think Id rather just keep FC3 because now its just pointless to pay again and again and again.

 

To each their own. I myself will glady pay for the work of upgrades of AFM to them all.

[71st_Mastiff]

To each their own. I myself will glady pay for the work of upgrades of AFM to them all.

 

:thumbup:

[cichlidfan]

 

1- There has been no decision in Moscow regarding the availability of the new advanced flight models to the FC3 aircraft. While there is discussion of making this available as an FC3 upgrade at a lower cost than the full module, I can say with confidence that they will not be made available for free given the large time and financial investment. When I am told the final decision on this matter I will post it.

 

Matt

 

Confirmed.

[FLANKERATOR]

Chaps, have a look at this:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1762390&postcount=42

 

Before you reply I implore you to watch the tracks (or tacviews). The R/ER tracking is shocking and needs to be fixed. Otherwise explain the bipolar nature of the R/ER. Just watch the tacviews...

 

Hey Rage, pretty serious testing out there, good job. Watching your tracks, I've noticed that almost every time, ER's start turning towards chaffs as target aspect reaches 90 deg angle. My question is do you adjust PRF accordingly? Back in FC2, there was a symbol confirming M-link (inverted N), if this ever goes off, radar lock is not valid anymore, at least not for an M link (ER guidance), not sure if this symbol is still implemented in FC3. Try to adjust PRF accordingly (HI for head on, ILV before reaching 90º and MED for more than 90), you may increase long/medium range PK with ER/EM.

[porky_pig]

To each their own. I myself will glady pay for the work of upgrades of AFM to them all.

I wouldnt mind either! But here is my gripe: they just made FC3 obsolete...a product which isnt even 6 months old yet (or barely so), a product which you have already paid 50 dollars, only to learn of a better module coming later in the year with your perferred aircraft...in which you have to pay -again-. Why not beat me across my kneecaps and take my wallet afterwards?

[wilky510]

I have paid for a software simulator and we get a Beta, all right we work in the Beta. If this software is not a Beta anymore and I need my missiles to destroy the F-15. Then this means we get one stable software, with the main important of the fighter (the missiles) working only for the F-15.

 

If all that is happening now and the nexts proyects are the Su-27/F-15 AFM , I will take care in spend my money in the DCS Su-27 with such strategy

I don't agree with one word you said here. You and many others think that ED is working 'against' you in some fantasy, conspiracy theory world... and honestly it's not like that.

 

Just be glad you haven't seen a Falcon BMS AMRAAM in ED games. Then I would assume you would have something real to complain about.

[pepin1234]

I don't agree with one word you said here. You and many others think that ED is working 'against' you in some fantasy, conspiracy theory world... and honestly it's not like that.

 

Just be glad you haven't seen a Falcon BMS AMRAAM in ED games. Then I would assume you would have something real to complain about.

 

 

I assume that you have no idea about what you have exposed here that the Aim-120 shooted from your loved Falcon will be superior to others.

 

Yes of course you dont agree with me. Let me guess, also you dont agree with anything about the russian planes.

[porky_pig]

I assume that you have no idea about what you have exposed here that the Aim-120 shooted from your loved Falcon will be superior to others.

 

Yes of course you dont agree with me. Let me guess, also you dont agree with anything about the russian planes.

The point that he is trying to get across to you is if Falcon BMS (falcom 4.0 restructured) AIM-120's were modelled in FC, you would stand less of a chance because they dont miss in BMS, be it shot off a Hornet, Eagle, Mig-28.....

[pepin1234]

The point that he is trying to get across to you is if Falcon BMS (falcom 4.0 restructured) AIM-120's were modelled in FC, you would stand less of a chance because they dont miss in BMS, be it shot off a Hornet, Eagle, Mig-28.....

 

Well I dont know Falcon BMS. At least the Falcon is against AI, but here we fight against human and the results really care.

[104th_Crunch]

I wouldnt mind either! But here is my gripe: they just made FC3 obsolete...a product which isnt even 6 months old yet (or barely so), a product which you have already paid 50 dollars, only to learn of a better module coming later in the year with your perferred aircraft...in which you have to pay -again-. Why not beat me across my kneecaps and take my wallet afterwards?

 

Well, I look at it as paying for real upgrades. Upgrades that have man hours put into them as well as people's time and sweat. Also, Wags stated in another thread that ED will be looking at a possible reduced prices for people that previously bought FC3. So look at as just taking some change out of your wallet and a slight bruise to the kneecaps lol.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Crunch

[71st_Mastiff]

You-guys do know the FM in Falcon is not even close?

Edited June 21, 2013 by Mastiff

[Witchking]

Seriously...I don't understand how people can't comprehend "Development resources are not free". AFM was not part of the initial features list for FC aircraft. The same people who want ED to make more DCS fidelity modules still complain and moan about spending 20$ for supporting this developer.

 

BTW..The reason it seems like ED has a "MONOPOLY" which doesn't at all apply to a game company/simulator developer (...unless they have exclusive licensing rights to making a simulator of these aircraft ) btw, is because these sims sell a maximum of a few hundred thousand units. That is the reason there are no other major high fidelity sims on the market. Wags previously stated, ED is lucky to break even many times on their products due to the low sales volume of such complex simulators. Stop expecting everything in life to be free. If ED keeps throwing in more and more effort into a older product for free, thats it, they will go bankrupt...they cannot simply sustain their staff. Soon the staff will leave for more lucrative games and that is just start of a downhill slope.

 

And pepin...no this is still not ED cheating you...they never promised a perfect product. This is a complex piece of software and its constantly improving. One day, it will be acceptable to most users, but others may still comprehend some modelling to be in-accurate. Thats unfortunately the nature of simulation software and there is nothing we can do about it. If ED gets their hand on internal classified data from the russian air force on missile tests and program logic, you can get your wish of the most accurate A2A missiles ever....but for now, ED's rendition is nothing short of extraordinary. Also, you did not pay for your in-game Su27 missiles to destroy an F-15... you paid for a simulator that closely matches the result of shooting a russian A2A missile. ED have a lot more information than the common public info on missile performance. They have staff who research physics models and program logic. But no matter how much they try, neither you nor them can make a replicate of the missile logic seen in real life. Just be patient and the missile performance can get better. In the meanwhile, try posting some tracks of your sessions and ask for help on optimizing your A2A combat strategies.

 

This is not to say ED's simulators have flaws...the limitations of the engine, dated graphics, in-efficient special fx, inability to use parallel threads is a bigger problem than all this other stuff. Once they finish their new image generator, hopefully, they can modernize their engine and take advantage of more cutting edge hardware and simultaneously drive realism.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Witchking

[*Rage*]

Hey Rage, pretty serious testing out there, good job. Watching your tracks, I've noticed that almost every time, ER's start turning towards chaffs as target aspect reaches 90 deg angle. My question is do you adjust PRF accordingly? Back in FC2, there was a symbol confirming M-link (inverted N), if this ever goes off, radar lock is not valid anymore, at least not for an M link (ER guidance), not sure if this symbol is still implemented in FC3. Try to adjust PRF accordingly (HI for head on, ILV before reaching 90º and MED for more than 90), you may increase long/medium range PK with ER/EM.

 

There should be no problem in a look up situation. Many missiles simply miss (in further testing) in a head on look up aspect simply due to chaff in its field cone. There is no difference in track rate using ILV mode either. However, when you take the chaff away ALL missiles track perfectly regardless of mode. Chaff is way way overpowered. Expecially at 20 clicks. head on. looking up.

Edited June 21, 2013 by ///Rage

[porky_pig]

Well, I look at it as paying for real upgrades. Upgrades that have man hours put into them as well as people's time and sweat. Also, Wags stated in another thread that ED will be looking at a possible reduced prices for people that previously bought FC3. So look at as just taking some change out of your wallet and a slight bruise to the kneecaps lol.

When these modules come out, you might as well toss FC3 into the trash...thats 50 bones you just throw into the trash, and the software isnt even 6 months old yet. What was the point in releasing FC3 when all you intended to do was make it obsolete not even a year later? What irks me the most is the fact that you will spend close to 130 dollars after all is said and done, which will make FC3 almost as expensive as a new operating system...half of which will wind up in the trash bin. If they do a heavy discount for us FC3 people, then I can live with that...but I didnt buy FC3 just to throw it away.

[porky_pig]

You-guys do know the FM in Falcon is not even close?

Dont know. Dont have it, dont care to.

[104th_Crunch]

When these modules come out, you might as well toss FC3 into the trash...thats 50 bones you just throw into the trash, and the software isnt even 6 months old yet. What was the point in releasing FC3 when all you intended to do was make it obsolete not even a year later? What irks me the most is the fact that you will spend close to 130 dollars after all is said and done, which will make FC3 almost as expensive as a new operating system...half of which will wind up in the trash bin. If they do a heavy discount for us FC3 people, then I can live with that...but I didnt buy FC3 just to throw it away.

 

While it took a few years. I threw out a Sunfire car that I paid $10000.00+ when I bought my Charger. I did not expect GM to send me a new free Sunfire when they came out with a new model.

 

The hours of work are there and real to add AFM. We won't be paying for nothing, and ED need to charge for hours. They can't give away product for free. Also remember that the flight sim market is not as big as say, the FPS market. We pay a higher price because our hobby is not as popular and the market is smaller. The more volume something is produced in, the cheaper the manufacturing cost can be. Less volume means higher manufacturing/production costs to the manufacturer.

 

This AFM will also be used as a stepping stone for DCS F/A-18. You mention $130.00, but as I mentioned, ED are looking at reduced pricing for previous customers, so that number may very well be lower.

 

Of course, you also don't need to buy the invidual modules. We all knew what we were buying with FC3 when it was released. You can stick with FC3.

[porky_pig]

While it took a few years. I threw out a Sunfire car that I paid $10000.00+ when I bought my Charger. I did not expect GM to send me a new free Sunfire when they came out with a new model.

 

The hours of work are there and real to add AFM. We won't be paying for nothing, and ED need to charge for hours. They can't give away product for free. Also remember that the flight sim market is not as big as say, the FPS market. We pay a higher price because our hobby is not as popular and the market is smaller. The more volume something is produced in, the cheaper the manufacturing cost can be. Less volume means higher manufacturing/production costs to the manufacturer.

 

This AFM will also be used as a stepping stone for DCS F/A-18. You mention $130.00, but as I mentioned, ED are looking at reduced pricing for previous customers, so that number may very well be lower.

 

Of course, you also don't need to buy the invidual modules. We all knew what we were buying with FC3 when it was released. You can stick with FC3.

You can resell a Sunfire. Nobody is asking for a free product, the beef is the fact that this module is useless, which makes the point of buying -or even keeping- FC3 pointless. I would have rather paid 20 dollars a module and spend 80 bucks for 4 modules, rather than spend 80 bucks (if they discount the modules) and have 5 modules, one of which is taking up hard drive space.

Edited June 21, 2013 by porky_pig

[GGTharos]

I'm playing FC3 for A2A. While it will take a back-seat to an AFM/DCS Eagle in the future, it will still have been played for plenty enough hours to be worth its value.

 

Incidentally, FC3 contains aircraft which are not being offered in new modules right now, so it's not the case that everyone will put FC3 in the trash.

Edited June 21, 2013 by GGTharos

[Dudikoff]

This AFM will also be used as a stepping stone for DCS F/A-18. You mention $130.00, but as I mentioned, ED are looking at reduced pricing for previous customers, so that number may very well be lower.

 

With the emphasis on 'maybe' (currently).

 

Of course, you also don't need to buy the invidual modules. We all knew what we were buying with FC3 when it was released. You can stick with FC3.

 

So you knew that they would release separate modules later on and that FC3 will be (seemingly) abandoned? Well, kudos to you, but I haven't. If I did, I would've skipped FC3 and waited for these modules. The whole point behind FC3 was to pay (again) to integrate FC2 airplanes into DCS World so they can be updated afterwards. So, I want to pay for AFM, yes, but I don't want to pay full price again for something which I paid for with FC3.

 

On a related note, one of the bigger selling features (to me, anyway) announced for the FC3 was the improved landing behaviour. That obviously can't be added to the SFM engine, so to get that feature we need AFM as a paid integration to FC3.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Dudikoff

[Paganus]

In FC3 the Frog and Hog get an AFM, 3DOF pit, and new model. The Eagle and Flanker have the pits, and models. So if you have FC3 the only thing you want from the new offerings is the AFM for the Eagle and Flanker.

 

Do I have that right?

 

Well, if they end up offering a paid FC3 update/upgrade to get the AFM's for the Eagle and the Flanker, don't you end up in about the same place?

[pepin1234]

The Situation right now is really critical for the RU fighters in FC3. The new pilots only come asking for the F-15 and when we asking if they like the RU fighters, they always say the F-15 is the best. Is not just in case, that also we have the title page of the FC3 product with the F-15 and then when the pilots test the F-15 what only they have to do to avoid the Ru Missiles is dispence a Little chaffs and turn 20 degres left or right, even does not matter the distance in combat the result is the same always. What is Happening now is affecting heavily the work of years in our squadron. After all this, we have to see people here in the Forum saying us like " is not like that, all the parts going bad, shut up "

[104th_Crunch]

You can resell a Sunfire...

 

It was a rusted, worthless pice of sh*t by the time I was through with it :)