BO-105 PAH1A1 progress news

[Rick50]

 

I had to look up RB55 to understand your post: seems the RB55 is Swedish production TOW missiles. Much like Sweden also made Sidewinder and Maveric missiles too, or German manufactured Sidewinders. One site says the RB55 is specifically the  BGM-71C variant 

 

Quote

BGM-71C

Improved TOW (ITOW) w/ improved shaped-charge warhead, extended fuse probe, 630 mm  armor penetration

 

Current use is for BGM-71E for tandem warhead to defeat ERA Explosive Reactive Armor (the brick things seen on so many newer Soviet tanks), and BGM-71F which has the top-down attack warheads, meaning the missile flies just over the top of the tank, and when the Magnetic Anomaly Detector detects the massive steel of the tank, detonates it's warhead straight down through the tank hatch, using  an Explosive Formed Projectile.

 

Was there never any Bo-105 using TOW in German use? I now think there wasn't... I think I got confused when seeing some of them having tubes in a downward angle, guessing that was a later improvement to just reduce space when on the ground?

 

Like this:

Instead of the earlier setup:

 

Edited July 1, 2024 by Rick50

[Kang]

Yes, the HOT missiles got re-arranged when they went from PAH-1 to PAH-1A1. Apparently that made them a little less awkward to work with (e.g. ground crew wouldn't have to walk around them so much), reduced the CoG shift upon firing and, so legend has it, also came with advantages to maintenance.

[Marsvinet]

11 hours ago, Rick50 said:

I had to look up RB55 to understand your post: seems the RB55 is Swedish production TOW missiles. Much like Sweden also made Sidewinder and Maveric missiles too, or German manufactured Sidewinders. One site says the RB55 is specifically the  BGM-71C variant 

 

Yes, RB 55 is the Swedish name for the TOW missile. I know that there are/were RB 55 versions equal all the way to the TOW2A/TOW2B, but I do not know which versions the HKP 9 carried. Presumably it could carry all versions, but someone who knows more could fill in those details.

[The_Fragger]

ED Model Viewer Co-Pilot Setup

Edited July 4, 2024 by The_Fragger

[Rick50]

 

Amazing work, Fragger!!

While a few have come close, I don't recall  anyone surpassing your skill and dedication at making this bird visually perfect...

I was lucky to see one  of these  in person, back in... either 1990 or 91, during one of the big exercises in Western Germany. An amazing time, with the earliest celebrations of German re-unification! "Winds of Change" by Scorpions on the radio, along with Silent Lucidity and Thunderstruck a few months  later... I was posted to Canadian Forces Base Lahr in the southwest corner, near Strasbourg and Frieburg. But I can guarantee that I never got quite as good  a look as your model, it was about 100m away!

[Rick50]

On 7/2/2024 at 1:25 AM, Marsvinet said:

Yes, RB 55 is the Swedish name for the TOW missile. I know that there are/were RB 55 versions equal all the way to the TOW2A/TOW2B, but I do not know which versions the HKP 9 carried. Presumably it could carry all versions, but someone who knows more could fill in those details.

I'm sure it could carry  any of the standard TOW variants, as the original launcher system seems relatively simple and robust from what I've seen. And after early problems, seems to have stayed pretty much the same since the 1970's other than a nicer thermal/optical sight. As for the missile variants produced in Sweden, I'm sure you  are correct about newer variants, I'm far from an expert in TOW systems, or Swedish ordnance inventories or missile purchases from years ago! My information was from a wikipedia page about the TOW system, which I'm sure is not as well updated as it theoretically could be! 

Now, the impression I seem to remember from talking with people who've fired a TOW, is that it's a solid reliable system, very effective, and relatively easy to get hits... but that if you are startled by the launch noise,  or some  other major distraction, you needed some iron discipline to keep  it aimed on  enemy armor, or you  were likely to get a miss. That's from a ground mount or Humvee wheeled vehicle... but from a helicopter? Not sure if that was more difficult or not... were 1980's western helos able to have automatic optical tracking of moving targets, or did the gunner have to manually keep the crosshairs on the enemy armor 100% of the time?? I mean, I know  this is a way different beast than say a Longbow with modern RF Hellfires of today!

[Kang]

My understanding is that it is a general issue with those missiles that you need to keep them on the target to score a hit, but while they are obviously less stable as a platform, helicopters had the advantage of slightly larger range and a much easier line of sight to the targets. Basically, you had more chance to correct, whereas the ground launchers, if you flinched too much, had little chance of getting the missile back onto the target, simply because the angular deviation would be much bigger (and possibly fatal in several directions).

[Hammer1-1]

22 hours ago, The_Fragger said:

ED Model Viewer Co-Pilot Setup

 

the eternal scowl, wonder what his beef is...

[Hiob]

40 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

the eternal scowl, wonder what his beef is...

warfare is serious business

[Kang]

1 hour ago, Hammer1-1 said:

the eternal scowl, wonder what his beef is...

Well, the fixed wing people hardly venture into this sub-forum, lest they'd let you know: he is a helicopter pilot. He knows that anything that isn't going wrong is just about to go wrong.

[Hammer1-1]

4 hours ago, Hiob said:

warfare is serious business

I dunno, even his beard looks angry..

3 hours ago, Kang said:

Well, the fixed wing people hardly venture into this sub-forum, lest they'd let you know: he is a helicopter pilot. He knows that anything that isn't going wrong is just about to go wrong.

and he looks like hes chewing on razor wire to boot

[cfrag]

18 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

and he looks like hes chewing on razor wire to boot

No he isn't. If they gave him some candy-assed razor wire, he'd be smiling. 

[The_Fragger]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:54 PM, Kang said:

My understanding is that it is a general issue with those missiles that you need to keep them on the target to score a hit, but while they are obviously less stable as a platform, helicopters had the advantage of slightly larger range and a much easier line of sight to the targets. Basically, you had more chance to correct, whereas the ground launchers, if you flinched too much, had little chance of getting the missile back onto the target, simply because the angular deviation would be much bigger (and possibly fatal in several directions).

The only challenge is to keep the helicopter stable. If you exceed the limits during the TOW flight, the steering wires are immediately cut.

[jumphigh]

On 7/4/2024 at 11:39 PM, The_Fragger said:

Co-Pilot Setup

PAH has no co-pilot! The left seater is the commander of the aircraft and employs the weapons. The right seater pilot is in fact subordinated and not the boss.

[MAXsenna]

PAH has no co-pilot! The left seater is the commander of the aircraft and employs the weapons. The right seater pilot is in fact subordinated and not the boss.

Driving Miss Daisy?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[The_Fragger]

1 hour ago, jumphigh said:

PAH has no co-pilot! The left seater is the commander of the aircraft and employs the weapons. The right seater pilot is in fact subordinated and not the boss.

I call it CO-Pilot. But yes - it's basically the commander.

[jumphigh]

On 7/9/2024 at 3:21 PM, The_Fragger said:

I call it CO-Pilot.

That's why he looks so angry...

I just wanted to clarify that it is different to planes where the co-pilot or WSO is commonly subordinated to the pilot (captain, pilot in command PIC), isn't it? Interestingly UK's Apache crews have the same roles like the PAH. The front seat WSO is the commander. US Army Apache crews however seems to use the expected order with pilot as commander, WSO subordinated.

Does anybody know who is who in a Tiger? I know that the pilot sits in the lower front seat and the WSO in the upper rear. But who is the aircraft commander?

[The_Fragger]

 

 

FM:

The FM of the BO-105 is nearing perfection.

We have had many discussions with active BO-105 pilots in the last few weeks. Based on the input, the MEDUSA SYSTEM will be expanded.

MEDUASA will be fed with additional rotor blade bending formulas.

PERFECTION. We want to present you with a 100% FM. A PFM that has never been seen in a simulator before.

3D/Graphic:

Due to the current limitations, which include morph targets, we have decided to create the pilot/co-pilot model in such a way that we can animate the basic bones animation for the large bones of the head.

Result: See Video

[Kang]

That's great news

[MAXsenna]

We love perfection!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Kang]

57 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

We love perfection!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Only thing we love more is evident progress

[Hiob]

9 hours ago, The_Fragger said:

 

 

FM:

The FM of the BO-105 is nearing perfection.

We have had many discussions with active BO-105 pilots in the last few weeks. Based on the input, the MEDUSA SYSTEM will be expanded.

MEDUASA will be fed with additional rotor blade bending formulas.

PERFECTION. We want to present you with a 100% FM. A PFM that has never been seen in a simulator before.

3D/Graphic:

Due to the current limitations, which include morph targets, we have decided to create the pilot/co-pilot model in such a way that we can animate the basic bones animation for the large bones of the head.

Result: See Video

You guys are awesome!

The pilots look great!

[MAXsenna]

Only thing we love more is evident progress

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[LuseKofte]

kind of believed this project was dead. Now I got a bit excited

[The_Fragger]

While MEDUSA is being fed with the latest improved formulas, we are thinking about creating a female pilot/CO-pilot... What do you think about choosing between Male or Female Pilot/Co-pilot ?

I am trying to convince you nullnull

Edited July 18, 2024 by The_Fragger