Giving up on the Huey till its patched

[Scupper]

Hmm, - thanks for your comments. I think you're right about dead zones: I'll try without them, - but I personally think that curves can aid control when you have a short joystick. The real helicopter has quite a long arm on the stick and small corrections are probably quite easy. With a short stick like my Saitek X52 Pro, the tiniest movement of my hand creates a proportionately quite large movement of the aircraft's controls, so by using curves you can replicate the action of a long cyclic stick. Of course big corrections can get quite messy... but if you're on the ball you shouldn't need them, right?

 

There was video posted somewhere here recently (remember Hueys landing in bamboo thickets?) where a pilot talked about keeping cyclic movements within the size of a silver dollar or something. With my X52 stick and no curves, moving the diameter of a silver dollar would induce a large cyclic movement, so in my opinion, curves can add to finesse, though I suspect there are entrenched views about this on both sides and I'm sorry I've gone bit off the original poster's topic.

 

I suppose the best thing is to experiment with them and see if they work for you.

[Hawk_5]

I've gone the opposite way with dead zones and curves. I modified my CH fighterstick to remove every last bit of free movement (shims in the resistor posts) to make it as sensitive as possible. I want the slightest stick movement to produce results in the aircraft regardless what type it is. In helicopters I find this even more important. Never set a curve or deadzone and never will. Always linear for me and to be honest I think that curves and deadzones just sets up a pilot to be chasing their tail to maintain control with larger stick movements.

[lorenzoj]

I had to struggle mightily with this but have to say that at 20 hours I was much better then I had been at the 10 hours some estimated for gaining some predictability and control. Still playing with curves a bit and feel the usefulness will vary widely with differences in equipment and style.

[seldridge1960]

It may be nothing, but the default install for the cyclic had a curve defined. Might it be this curve is getting reintroduced by the complete uninstall/reinstall process that is changing the control dynamics?

 

I know I deleted this user curve shortly after I installed the game.

 

Yea I know.... I'm beating a dead horse here, but it may explain a lot.

[RetroBurn]

I know this could help

 

[spud3030]

Well it certainly helped me!

I had my collective set as a curve,

changed to a slider and all of a

sudden I can land, not very prettily

mind you, but at least I live!

Transitions are now much easier.

 

I wonder how many people having

problems haven't changed the

collective to a slider?

Thanks fellas!! enjoying this great

sim a lot more now!

spud

[doveman]

I've certainly never heard of setting the collective to slider rather than curve! I'm going to use that for the UH-1H and KA-50 and see if it improves my ability to fly :)

 

I wonder if it's useful for the A10C throttle as well?

[Buznee]

You are correct, the approach and landing can be the hardest thing to learn on helicopters. Flying within the limits of the aircraft is key. How are you setting up your approach? The trick is start with shallow approaches and shallow flares as you approach ground effect. Also below 40 knots get ready to check the collective. You have to keep bumping the collective up in a increasing manner as the speed drops to zero in order to keep your rate of descent in check. Do not exceed 500 fpm. first practice getting into ground effect at 40 knots and then flaring gently to decrease your speed to 0, while keeping the altitude the same. Keep the flare going until you enter a hover. You will notice you will be slightly aft stick and left stick in the hover. You will also be using left pedal.

 

Do not do aggressive flares with steep approaches, you will overspeed the rotor, and droop the rotor heavily as you arrest your descent as you fall out of translational lift. You also have the risk of entering into vortex ring state during aggressive flares or steep descents at low speeds.

 

Just remember, keep the collective in check and focus on doing shallow approaches with shallow flares!

 

Practice is key!

[pappavis]

Practise. It takes me little effort to land having practised FF to hover transition alot :thumbup:

 

Same here.

After spending >=5 hours I can just-about chieve a stable hover at <>10 feet.

 

How to hover;

Imagine sitting in a rocking chair. Your body movement determines amount of swivel. To 'hover' you need counterforce. When moving backwards, you must counter by giving wait to the exact opposite direction(front). To much and you will move to the front.

As when you achieve a stable hover its important to VERY VERY slighty correct the forces. Applying the rocking chair principle. Sideslip can be counteracted the same way, or using the foot pedals swivel the heli into the direction of movment, then rocking chair counter the movement. VOILA!!! Hovering :smilewink:

 

Tips:

1. Adjust your HOTAS sensitivitys

2. Practise practise, and pracitse more.

 

Coming from the Ka-50 've found the UH-1H a real challenge. The Ka-50 is rock solid stable. Flys nearly like a fixed wing.

[TimeKilla]

I can now almost stable hover at 100 feet you can never just get level and stable on the center ball and then leave the joystick where it is you're constantly having to make very very very small movements to keep the helicopter hovering and centered on the same spot these movements are so small that i've notice normal PC joysticks struggle to pick up the movements

 

I can see why someone might want to extended there joystick like the real deal in a helicopter and put better sensors into it for those of us like my self that don't have the money to be able to do that hovering out of ground affect will likely always be very difficult but rewarding nonetheless.

 

Not too sure anyone would be keen on them modding the FM to make it easier unless it's like that in the real Huey, I would not even want to go into how many hours i've got on the Huey like some others here i just ended up totally hooked.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Timekilla I think you hit the nail on the head. In real life helicopter pilots have the cyclic handle at the end of a long pole allowing for minute interface inputs. Most home flight sticks only have about what 2.5 inches below the handle? (marking the point of pivot). It is not the program making the flight unrealistically hard. It is our equipment.

[Scupper]

That's why people use curves. By playing around with them you can get to a point where a small movement on your short joystick makes a tiny adjustment to the control surfaces, replicating the sensitivity of a longer stick. Some people here scoff at them but I find they smooth things out a lot with small corrections.

[doveman]

That's why people use curves. By playing around with them you can get to a point where a small movement on your short joystick makes a tiny adjustment to the control surfaces, replicating the sensitivity of a longer stick. Some people here scoff at them but I find they smooth things out a lot with small corrections.

 

I don't know how it compares to other sticks but with my Thrustmaster Hotas X, it has a bit of a physical deadzone, so very tiny movements don't produce any output anyway.

 

It's not massive but I imagine with a real stick the tiniest movements have some effect. It's also somewhat "sticky" around the center, being spring-loaded I guess, so it can tend to stick a bit in places and require a bit more pressure to move it out from one spot to another zone, so for example the smallest movement forward that registers takes it from 32767 to 32703 (but I doubt I could hit that without monitoring the DirectInput output) then pushing it further will take it to 32319, then 31551, 31103, 31039. The point where it might stick a bit tends to vary but it obviously tends to result in moving a bit further than I might have intended.

 

So I suppose to counteract this, I need to use a curve that smoothes out any movements around the centre, so that I can push it more severely to start with and it won't really matter whether I hit 32703 or 31551, rather than dithering about pushing it from the centre and wondering if I've got to the point where it actually starts to output (with the smallest movements of the stick, I guess the effect on the helo shouldn't necessarily be that noticeable straight away so I probably can't rely on observing the aircraft to tell, although perhaps the Controls Indicator will show the smallest inputs clearly) and so that when the stick does stick/jump a bit, it doesn't matter too much as the input is dampened down. With a curve that achieves this, I suppose the flipside is that it will be more sensitive to higher inputs as I move further from the centre but perhaps that doesn't matter if the stick shouldn't be in this area very much and when it is, I'd be wanting to make drastic movements anyway.

[howie87]

I'm not sure how the cyclic in a helicopter behaves but I fly a Cessna 152 and that has very noticeable dead zone due to slack in the cables. This might be eliminated in aircraft where hydraulic and fly by wire systems are incorporated though. Anyone in here flown a real chopper and want to chip in?

[doveman]

I'm not sure how the cyclic in a helicopter behaves but I fly a Cessna 152 and that has very noticeable dead zone due to slack in the cables. This might be eliminated in aircraft where hydraulic and fly by wire systems are incorporated though. Anyone in here flown a real chopper and want to chip in?

 

That's interesting. Do you find it has any resistance/friction either getting it out of the deadzone or anywhere else, or is it very smooth and precise in all directions?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I'm not sure how the cyclic in a helicopter behaves but I fly a Cessna 152 and that has very noticeable dead zone due to slack in the cables. This might be eliminated in aircraft where hydraulic and fly by wire systems are incorporated though. Anyone in here flown a real chopper and want to chip in?

 

Must be a Cessna thing as I experience the same thing in the Cessna 172 I rent occasionally, but not in the piper warrior or super decathlon. However, it's not quite the same as a dead zone. A dead zone in sim terms exists around the centre point. The slack you describe is noticeable when you move three yoke from one direction to another, but is still smooth when moved in one direction even as it passes through the centre. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

I flew an R22 for the first time last week (my first RW rotary experience) and it was quite something. For DCS Huey I use a thrust master warthog with 100 saturation and 0 curve. I thought that was sensitive, but the R22 took this to another level. I had the cyclic in my hand, which in turn was on my lap, and even then I had to work to keep the aircraft steady, even in forward flight. I barely had to move my fingers it was so responsive

Edited August 13, 2013 by Flamin_Squirrel

[Flamin_Squirrel]

That's interesting. Do you find it has any resistance/friction either getting it out of the deadzone or anywhere else, or is it very smooth and precise in all directions?

 

Smooth and precise. In fact not too dissimilar to a car. As you turn the wheel you don't suddenly stop turning, then start turning the other direction as the wheel passes through the centre. Same for aircraft controls.

[doveman]

Smooth and precise. In fact not too dissimilar to a car. As you turn the wheel you don't suddenly stop turning, then start turning the other direction as the wheel passes through the centre. Same for aircraft controls.

 

I understood "smooth and precise". The rest was lost on me I'm afraid as I've never driven ;)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I understood "smooth and precise". The rest was lost on me I'm afraid as I've never driven ;)

 

Doh! :megalol:

 

Anyway, yes, smooth and precise. This is something that makes many (even high end sticks like the warthog) unrealistic; aircraft controls simply don't snap back to a defined central point. Control forces are light in the centre, making small control inputs from one direction to another easy.

[b00ce]

I understood "smooth and precise". The rest was lost on me I'm afraid as I've never driven ;)

Like riding a bicycle, gentle smooth movements, you start jerking on things and you end up ass over tea kettle. :thumbup:

 

And like a bicycle, you have to get a feel for it.

[lorenzoj]

Keep practicing and also like learning to ride a bicycle it suddenly just clicks.

 

And when making those tiny corrections if you don't ease off the stick pressure till you see a change then you've waited to long

[doveman]

Doh! :megalol:

 

Anyway, yes, smooth and precise. This is something that makes many (even high end sticks like the warthog) unrealistic; aircraft controls simply don't snap back to a defined central point. Control forces are light in the centre, making small control inputs from one direction to another easy.

 

Does anyone actually make a more realistic stick or is DIY the only way to get one?

[whartsell]

Does anyone actually make a more realistic stick or is DIY the only way to get one?

 

What stick do you fly with? Flim sells the hardware for a stick extension for the Warthog Hotas. I sell a curved shaft for his hardware. Together the Huey handles much better.

 

Review of the extension here

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Does anyone actually make a more realistic stick or is DIY the only way to get one?

 

I tried an extension but didn't get on with it. The mod I found best was to remove the single large spring and swap over the four little springs so they sit on to of the sliding mechanism. There is a YouTube video that shows this far better than I can describe it.

[doveman]

What stick do you fly with? Flim sells the hardware for a stick extension for the Warthog Hotas. I sell a curved shaft for his hardware. Together the Huey handles much better.

 

Review of the extension here

 

I'm only using a Thrustmaster Hotas X at the moment. I was just wondering if there was anything decent on the market to bear in mind for if/when I upgrade.