Waiting for first discount on DCS: Mi-8MTV2

[lorenzoj]

The grumbling isn't about a great sale price....

 

It's not about "jealousy"....

 

It is about the 2 week timeframe before a 60% drop ......

 

That's just a slap and an insult to early purchasers..... no other way to really look at it

[ff4life4]

The grumbling isn't about a great sale price....

 

It's not about "jealousy"....

 

It is about the 2 week timeframe before a 60% drop ......

 

That's just a slap and an insult to early purchasers..... no other way to really look at it

 

+1. This has been my point all along.

[Metal Hawk]

I have been reading silently these threads (first was about the Huey sale and now for Mi-8 ) and I kinda understand both sides.

 

I understand those that bought these modules at full price and then shortly after saw a sale for them. I too have been in situations like these for other product and services that had some kind of price drop right after I bought them. I know the feeling that goes through someones head when this happens. “Why haven't they told me that they're gonna have a price drop for their product before I bought it?”. It surely feels like a rip-off. But is it really? Did anyone from ED or Belsimtek promised anyone that if you buy their modules first that they will keep the price the same or even that they will raise them later and punish those that don't rush and buy their products from day one? They just made a business decision. Good or bad, well, that dependents from which side someone is looking at it.

Those that where first buyers also consider them selves supporters and automatically feel that they are in title to better treatment. But in the page from which they bought those modules did they read anywhere that Belsimtek runs a limited offer and asks for early supporters to which they promise xyz for their support. It was/is just an open Beta. The company that makes the modules decided to give anyone who is interested an early access to the final product. Nothing more. They are not supporters. They are just regular customers. For me supporters are those people that give their hard money, for example, to crowd funding projects. They knowingly pay, in many cases, more money for something that they know will eventually cost a lot less. But they do it because they believe that the project they are funding deserves their support. How can someone, who has only payed regular price for a project and then complains to Belsimtek for finding another way to bring more people to support their product (and actually working against the very same product he/she claims to support), call him/her self a supporter?

 

But they are seeing the subject only from their perspective. ED and Belsimtek are selling their products internationally. It maybe hard to see at first but 50$ in countries like USA have a lot different value in these countries than in some other countries in the world. Don't these people deserve the chance to be able to purchase the same things other people in more fortunate countries can afford?

I am one of those that have to be very careful on how they spend their budget. I couldn't have bought the modules I have bought in regular price. Do you know how it feels to see your favorite modules been flown by other and you not to be able to get them? I just waited patiently for the next sale where I would be able to afford them. Why can't you be happy that other people less fortunate than you can fly alongside with you? I am very worried that all this complaining might hurt those of us that can only buy at lowered prices than the regulars. I am really worried that even if the sales don't disappear they will be delayed for months (due to all this complaining) making us also wait for months before we can afford them. And if we miss a sale, we will have to wait twice that much.

I understand the frustration some members have about the timing of the sales but please consider how this behavior could affect others. Thanks for taking the time to read my two cents.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

The grumbling isn't about a great sale price....

 

It's not about "jealousy"....

 

It is about the 2 week timeframe before a 60% drop ......

 

That's just a slap and an insult to early purchasers..... no other way to really look at it

 

Really? How did the sale devalue the product you paid for?

[lorenzoj]

Really? How did the sale devalue the product you paid for?

 

If you can't see how people could possibly feel ill used in this situation then there is no argument that will convince you otherwise. And the timing does make a strong argument for an initial unreasonably inflated value followed by a substantial depreciation or "reduction in value".

[Lizzard]

Two weeks of waiting for the next discount aren't a challenge.

 

You know...for my PS3 Games I wait up to a few months..So I get them for a few Bucks at AMAZON Market Place, and most of the Bugs are patched:)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

If you can't see how people could possibly feel ill used in this situation then there is no argument that will convince you otherwise. And the timing does make a strong argument for an initial unreasonably inflated value followed by a substantial depreciation or "reduction in value".

 

Lets look at this logically (I'm going to assume you actually enjoy the product as I've not heard anyone say otherwise at this point).

 

You purchased a product because you considered the price worth paying. Say you took your purchase and your PC and retreated inside a mountain, removing yourself from the influences of the outside world; you're still enjoying the product and your view that it was worth getting remains. Why would this view change if you were to emerge and find it at a discount?

 

Would you or I kick yourself at having missed an opportunity to save a few? Of course. Would it make you or me weary of paying full price next time round? Absolutely; and maybe that'll come back to haunt BST, but maybe it won't? Only they know.

 

But none of the above changes the fact that if you'd remained blissfully ignorant of the sale you'd be happy, and noone is yet to come up with a convincing argument otherwise.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Ok, but we don´t live in a mountain.

 

We all know that after a beta release of Mi-8 at full price, came a 60% off only two weeks after. This don´t devaluate at all the product but change a lot the way i would buy next releases.

 

I´m not blaming anyone, just that way of doing things changed my mind and i will never goint to buy anything on release again. ( my list of DCS/ED modules is full becuse i´ve bought everything for the very first)

 

Simply ED/BSTK are loosing me as a release costumer forever.

 

Now waiting for sales.

 

 

Thats all.

[KaspeR32]

Ok, but we don´t live in a mountain.

 

We all know that after a beta release of Mi-8 at full price, came a 60% off only two weeks after. This don´t devaluate at all the product but change a lot the way i would buy next releases.

 

I´m not blaming anyone, just that way of doing things changed my mind and i will never goint to buy anything on release again. ( my list of DCS/ED modules is full becuse i´ve bought everything for the very first)

 

Simply ED/BSTK are loosing me as a release costumer forever.

 

Now waiting for sales.

 

 

Thats all.

 

I guess I just don't get the logic.

 

If you are so worried about money, why haven't you ALWAYS been someone that waits for sales? Why do you ever buy anything when it first comes out?

 

I mean if you understand that eventually, things will go on sale, what is the big news here? ED has had sales before, and they'll have sales again. So, I'm so confused as to why NOW you seem to have learned this big lesson to wait for sales.

 

If I buy on release, it's because I want to play it as soon as I can. That is the sacrifice I'm willing to make to play it RIGHT AWAY. The F-18C is a perfect example, I'm buying that immediately, KNOWING that it WILL go on sale in the future. It's not rocket science.

 

It comes down to a very basic concept. Save $30 or play it immediately.

[Skulleader]

Originally Posted by lorenzoj

That's just a slap and an insult to early purchasers..... no other way to really look at it

 

I would talk in my name, for me when ED have release the Mi-8 I knew already that this new module it would perfect because I had seen few screenshots and one video then I could not wait...

But once again it's just my opinion because I really love the Belsimtek's products, because I had already the Huey I was sure that the Mi-8 would be perfect, quickly I've bought this Mi-8.

[Python]

I have been an early adopter several times and had this happen, no sense getting so worked up about it. I wasn't even going to buy the MI-8 but I will do now, I imagine many casual chopper flyers will be in the same boat. The extra revenue made from people like me will go towards more helicopter modules no doubt so everybody wins ultimately.

 

If this kind of thing really gets to you... Just don't buy Belsimtek products early if this is the trend. Solved.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Because they never sold a beta at full price and two weeks later at 60%?

 

Points of interest: BETA / 2 WEEKS / 60%

 

Let´s take an example.

 

ARMA III.

 

Do you want to support us? Please buy a beta at a reduced price and get early access because at Gold release the price will be full. Then after a logical and reasonable time, ( this could be discussed but 6 months IMO would be enough), sales time starts. First at a reduced 10%-15% frame. Later could be 25%-35%.

 

And after a long time, another 6 months or so, maybe 50% off. Percents aren´t important really but you catch the idea.

 

It´s no so difficult to understand.

 

i´ve bought ED products from de very begining at full price because they never went on sales so EARLY. Money it´s not a problem when you buy one or two products but when you buy everything because you like it and start to make numbers, how much extra money you are spending because this early sale politic?

 

 

Of course i´m going to buy next ED products because i like it, Simply i disagree with this new extremly early sales politics ( specially with beta products) so from now and because i have more than enough modules to fly with, for me it´s better to wait for sales. ( frequently, instant, fast and suddenly huge sales in short times)

 

That´s all

Edited September 20, 2013 by Esac_mirmidon

[Flamin_Squirrel]

...for me it´s better to wait for sales. ( frequently, instant, fast and suddenly huge sales in short times)

 

That´s all

 

Of course and I respect that; I never said any different.

 

All I was pointing out that all this melodramatic rubbish about it being a "slap in the face" made no logical sense.

[Esac_mirmidon]

One thing i would like to know but it´s impossible:

 

How much money ED would earn from casual customers that would never buy a full price module but they will buy one or two at 60%-80% discount?

 

How much money ED would loose from long time customers-supporters that always buy modules at full price but know they will stop doing that and wait for sales?

 

ED could do whatever they wont of course, it´s a matter of business.

 

But in my squad when the huey was launched more than 15 mates bought it at full price. When they know about the sale one month after, well you know what i think about.

 

Then when the Mi-8 was launched, NOBODY but me, bought the Hip. Why? Because all know that the same sale would happen. How much money BSTK loose? How much money earned from sales?

 

Interesting isn´t it?

Edited September 20, 2013 by Esac_mirmidon

[Flying Penguin]

I guess I just don't get the logic.

 

If you are so worried about money, why haven't you ALWAYS been someone that waits for sales? Why do you ever buy anything when it first comes out?

 

I mean if you understand that eventually, things will go on sale, what is the big news here? ED has had sales before, and they'll have sales again. So, I'm so confused as to why NOW you seem to have learned this big lesson to wait for sales.

 

If I buy on release, it's because I want to play it as soon as I can. That is the sacrifice I'm willing to make to play it RIGHT AWAY. The F-18C is a perfect example, I'm buying that immediately, KNOWING that it WILL go on sale in the future. It's not rocket science.

 

It comes down to a very basic concept. Save $30 or play it immediately.

 

I think the point of contention is really that it challenges people's assumptions of the value of paying the early adopter premium.

 

If I buy a graphics card on day 1, I know that in about 3 months time it will be down by 10% and in 9 months down by maybe 40% (made up %, but you get the idea). It's broadly standard across the market and whilst you see sales, they aren't that dramatic, at least on recent kit. I, as the informed consumer (don't laugh), can make a decision as to what level of premium is acceptable, is getting it 9 months early worth sacrificing the saving of 40% I would get if I waited. It's fairly simple cost/benefit analysis, for a $1000 graphics card, 9 months of early access costs $400.

 

Rightly or wrongly, there are assumptions about software costs and what level of discounts are available at what time. People are aggrieved because their calculation of cost/benefit for early access was thrown out by an exceptionally early sale (how many non-BST pieces of software have gone for similar discounts at similar times?).

 

BST have every right to put whatever product they want on sale at any time at any price they choose, that's not in question, and presumably they feel that the total NPV of their sales is greater by bringing the deep reduction, and therefore casual sales, forward, in spite of the risk of reducing the % of people in future that will buy at the full release price. That suggests one of three things:

• They really don't sell many at ful price after the initial release frenzy (most likely)
  
• They have bills to pay and need money now, even if the total NPV achieved is lower
  
• ED have them over a barrel and the had to go along with it (least likely)
  

 

BST have every right to maximise their sales, but it does seem counter productive that they did it so obviously and blatantly, no-one likes to feel a fool....

 

Me, I'm not mad, I'm going to buy myself an Mi-8 :D

[Esac_mirmidon]

+ 1, Penguin

[ff4life4]

I guess I just don't get the logic.

 

If you are so worried about money, why haven't you ALWAYS been someone that waits for sales? Why do you ever buy anything when it first comes out?

 

I mean if you understand that eventually, things will go on sale, what is the big news here? ED has had sales before, and they'll have sales again. So, I'm so confused as to why NOW you seem to have learned this big lesson to wait for sales.

 

If I buy on release, it's because I want to play it as soon as I can. That is the sacrifice I'm willing to make to play it RIGHT AWAY. The F-18C is a perfect example, I'm buying that immediately, KNOWING that it WILL go on sale in the future. It's not rocket science.

 

It comes down to a very basic concept. Save $30 or play it immediately.

 

Yes we understand that sales will happen. Yes we understand that we pay more to play early. This wouldn't be as bad if the sale was 6 months from now. The reason some of us are upset is that it was discounted after 2 WEEKS. Most of us would of waited 2 weeks to save 60%.

 

If you don't understand our point, you never will. Its not the fact that we are upset a sale happened, its the matter that the sale happened so quickly. Many of us have learned to not buy on release/beta again. Many of us will now always wait for sales. I hope that ED/BST won't be too affected by the large number of early adopters who will not participate next time.

 

That's our point. We know how sales work, we accept them. But having 2 beta products that both went on sale so early is not a normal business practice in the software industry.

 

As I stated before ARMA 3 supported its early adopters with discounts. The earlier you purchased the bigger the discount. Not how it has happened here where early adopters pay full price and then once they grabbed our money went to reach out to the rest of the market.

 

I'm done with this conversation. Both sides have their strong opinions and nothing will change them. Many have learned a lesson. When the next module is released, Let the chips fall as they may.

[LosT_SouL_VL]

The nevada map was never meant to be free for anyone but people in the beta.

 

I was a early buyer of A-10...But it's clear now that the promised Nevada map is vaporware...Also for al the guys that buy something on first day; think again...

[sobek]

But it's clear now that the promised Nevada map is vaporware

 

 

It's clear, really? Care to let me take a look at that crystal ball of yours?

[LosT_SouL_VL]

Well I can guess as you are a moderator that you're stand for your boss anytime and that you're biast, but one question.. What's the date of pre-orders of A-10 and what's the date of the Nevade map release???

[LosT_SouL_VL]

I help you on your way, I bought A-10 pre-order in the beginning of 2011 when at that time the Nevada map was promised as a incentive to buy A-10...

[NineLine]

I help you on your way, I bought A-10 pre-order in the beginning of 2011 when at that time the Nevada map was promised as a incentive to buy A-10...

 

Nevada started out as a 3rd Party project, then taken over by the ED team, then used as the initial map for EDGE and had to be rebuilt, so things have changed... considering the work being done, and the results that we have had a chance to see.... 2011 doesnt seem that long ago now....

 

Take in consideration the size of the team, and everything else they have done and are doing....

[LosT_SouL_VL]

SiTSpAwN, I get that you're a moderator and a DCS tester but do you deny the fact that in early 2011 the Nevada map was offered as an incentive when you pre-ordered A-10?

[NineLine]

SiTSpAwN, I get that you're a moderator and a DCS tester but do you deny the fact that in early 2011 the Nevada map was offered as an incentive when you pre-ordered A-10?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80468

 

Will EDGE/ Nevada cost anything?

EDGE is rendering engine, so no. It has been stated that the plan is still for the Nevada map to be free for users who pre-ordered DCS: A-10C Warthog beta.

 

Seems to still be the case...

[TimeKilla]

SiThSpAwN so we won't have to pay for the standard DCS map when converted to EDGE? That would be cool if true and make sense as they client is free to play?