Landing the Mustang

[Charly_Owl]

Hullo, folks.

 

I learned to fly the Mustang over a couple of short sessions last week and I've come to a point where I know I'm doing something wrong, but I can't really put my finger on it.

 

First I was always skidding all over the place during takeoff. I finally found out that taildragger configuration takeoff was easier when pulling the stick back to make sure the tail wheel stays on the ground while you build enough speed for liftoff.

 

But now that I can liftoff without crash-n'-burnin', I find myself having an enormous amount of difficulties while landing. I just can't seem to get it right. I'm usually not that bad with landing Cliffs of Dover Spitfires, but with the Mustang, it's a whole other ball game. I deploy my landing flaps, have my manifold pressure and rpm set in green area (approx 2600 rpm and 30-40ish inches) and I try bleed speed as much as I can. I usually reach 150-140 mph when I'm just over the runway and I progressively decrease throttle. When I'm just over the ground, I flare and...

 

What usually happens is I come either too low to the ground, prop hits the ground and I turnover.

 

Or, what happens most of the time; I get close to the ground, wheels bounce off the ground, aircraft goes wild by the lift generated by the wings, I bounce another time on the runway, then crash into the ground.

 

What is your thought process when attempting a landing? What should I look for? What are do's and don't's when landing the Mustang?

[Royraiden]

I believe you are coming in too fast, I think you should be around 110 mph when you are about to touch ground.

[SlipBall]

Agree, you are coming in too hot

[theOden]

Same issues I had :) As Roy and Slipball says, that's way too fast. 150 to 160 is what you should have before turning in for final - then apply full flaps (some have better success staying away from full flaps) and let the speed drop to 120 just before runway and then put the wheels on the tarmac just below 100. (I still baloon like a madman on landing but usually I can save the bird in time - will ask groundcrew to install shocks on the gear)

[lesnyborsuk]

Hi Charly_Owl :),

 

the best advice to do good landing is "be patient". In real world you are patient, because you don't want to die in fireball :). In sim like this being patient means, that you look at traffic pattern for Mustang in manual (page 134) and you try to build it. Don't do shortcuts, try to master it.

 

You are obviously going too fast. theOden is right - you should have 120 mph when passing runway threshold, then you flare until you reach stall speed (~90 mph) just before touchdown.

Remember one thing - don't go too flat - steep approaches are easier to do - just reduce power, so you have 120 mph on threshold.

 

If you have problems with controlling Mustang at these low speeds, take him for a ride to safe altitude, slow down, apply full flaps and gear and try to fly as slow as you can without entering spin. When you are good at this, come back to landings.

 

Good luck :)

Edited October 1, 2013 by lesnyborsuk

[Abburo]

It is very helpfull to control your descent rate using also the throttle.

 

First think is to reduce your speed to ~110 knots. At this speed you are at stall limit and the full flaps deflected can accelerate this behaviour. In order to prevent this try maintain pitch angle at a constant slightly positive angle and control the descent rate using short bursts with you throttle. This is just another way of landing in case that you are not mastering the ideal landing path.

[ivan_sch]

It is very helpfull to control your descent rate using also the throttle.

 

First think is to reduce your speed to ~110 knots. At this speed you are at stall limit and the full flaps deflected can accelerate this behaviour. In order to prevent this try maintain pitch angle at a constant slightly positive angle and control the descent rate using short bursts with you throttle. This is just another way of landing in case that you are not mastering the ideal landing path.

 

From some flight manual:

 

Flaps and undercarriage up - stalling speed 90 mph IAS

Flaps fully down, undercarriage down - 75 mph IAS

 

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

well, if you are about to land a plane, you will want to controll your speed with your stick, and your descent rate with your throttle...

 

 

• full flaps
  
• landing gear down
  
• 2700-3000rpm
  
• mp(throttle) as required to maintain
  
• ~120kts on final approach
  
• throttle to idle on the threshold a couple of feet above the runway
  
• touchdown with 90kts and not above!otherwise your are likely to balloony
  

[lesnyborsuk]

From some flight manual:

Flaps and undercarriage up - stalling speed 90 mph IAS

Flaps fully down, undercarriage down - 75 mph IAS

 

Yeap, but stall speed also depends on weight: bigger weight = higher stall speed. I.e. it is 119 mph for fully loaded P51 with flaps and gear up (p. 113 of DCS manual contains nice table with stall speeds too).

[VH-Rock]

Guys, in all honesty, the numbers don't really matter. You can feel this bird all the way in and never need to look at the speedo on approach :)

[Vita_CZ]

Charly_owl,

Almost everything has been already said, but also keep in mind that power change influences your direction of flight. So throttle back slowly and be prepared to use your feet to keep direction of flight.

Vita

[SlipBall]

I have my share of deaths with this P-51, but I like the challenge! God help us when we get the Bf-109...lol

[Pman]

Once you have done it 10 times it becomes more about how smooth can you do it than can you do it.

 

Personally I glance at the speedo when turning base to make sure I dont lose too much speed in the decent. After that I just feel it down to the runway.

 

If your gentle with it then it really isnt that hard, Try to avoid trying to plant it on the deck, it should be more of a "fly" it onto the runway.

 

Pman

[MTFDarkEagle]

Check out these video's:

 

Kucukjb-SVo

 

C6uraNt05XA

 

IaX704nRBPc

[White Owl]

Yeah, slower is better so you don't bounce. Bouncing leads quickly to loss of control in this plane.

 

One difference I've noted over other taildraggers in other sims, is the need to be very very active with the rudder pedals throughout the entire landing roll. Other sims will let you get away with using a lot less rudder.

[VH-Rock]

A very shallow descent rate is also important ;)

[Merlin-27]

It's all been said. Then there's just plain practice :) you can know all the tricks and still bounce her from time to time. The cool part is that once you have spent enough time... recovering from minor mistakes is second nature.

[theOden]

.. recovering from minor mistakes is second nature.

.. While screaming in pure terror like a little girl.

oh wait, maybe that's just me..

:pilotfly:

[Smokin Hole]

Land 3 points and you will never have a problem. Wheel land and you almost always will. This is where the sim version differs from the real thing (I THINK). Too much oleo reaction and too little yaw stability at low speed.

[NoJoe]

I'd add that you should make sure you're being smooth with the stick and throttle inputs. Jerky movements just make things worse. Relax your grip, take a deep breath in and out, and be smooooooth. :thumbup:

 

--NoJoe

[SlipBall]

I 've been learning her a bit, can now takeoff with 0% rudder trim, and 0% flaps on landing. The feeling is uncomfortable on the take offs, and I'm just experimenting to learn her better, and would not recommend it, or use it myself. :)

[Suchacz]

One more thing...

 

BE PATIENT!

 

...during your take offs and landings. Don't push her too hard, be smooth with controls. Runways are sufficient maybe even for landing a space shuttle(;)), so there is no need to hurry.

[lesnyborsuk]

.. While screaming in pure terror like a little girl.

oh wait, maybe that's just me..

:pilotfly:

 

I used to say to my friends, that the worst thing in being a pilot in real world is that when something goes wrong I can't just let go everything, shut my eyes and start to scream.

:lol:

[Bikerjack]

Got there in the end

 

I have only had DCS/P51 for a couple of weeks and can now take off and land reasonably well. Take off is quite straightforward provided you keep the stick back to lock the tailwheel but I am never quite sure when to ease the stick forward. I know I need a hell of a lot more practice but what is the optimum ground run speed at which to lift the tail. With the power available she sometimes surprises me and will lift off even with the stick held back but that's dangerous and can easily lead to a stall.

 

Landings took longer to achieve. I found I was coming in too shallow - at the right speed - but I lost sight of the runway and found that I was flaring too early. Now I slow down to 100-120mph from about 2000ft with gear down and full flap and approach with a steeper angle of descent aiming for the middle of the runway. That way it is easier to judge the flair and she floats on nicely. Then hold tail down to keep her straight.

 

Can't dogfight at all yet - that bloody FW190 gets me everytime on the standard Fast Mission. Is there a setting for making the AI more of a novice or is it obvious that I should persevere until I learn to nobble the bastard?

 

Don't tell me - read the bloody manual!!!!!:doh:

[Gooseneck]

What is the optimum ground run speed at which to lift the tail?

 

Keep the stick back until the airspeed indicator needle comes off the stop and starts to rise. Then just ease the stick to neutral and the tail will lift naturally. :thumbup: