Solty Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) P-38L maybe. huh?! :music_whistling: P-37 was a modernised P-36 Hawk, which never entered production. Typo.:pilotfly: :smartass: Kurfürst: According to your sources, what plane was the most common adversary of the Mk IXc throughout its operational history? If it was a pie chart, how much percentage would the 109 K get? I truly admire your knowledge about these aircraft, but calling the Tempest a "ridiculously rare uber plane that turned up in insignificant numbers at the very end of the war" made me laugh out loud. The Tempest reached the frontline half a year before the 109K and there was 1700 built in total as opposed to the 1593 109K-s. Yet, you wouldn't use the same expressions for the Kurfürst, would you? Not to mention that in 1944 only over 500 K4's were built and some sources say that most of them went to the eastern front, compared to multiple G6 and G14 subersions which reached units at the Western front. Edited July 29, 2016 by Solty [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 And its perfectly historical to get the IXc. After all in everywhere but the most uninformed/biased circles everyone knows we are getting the K-4's main rival at the end of 1944, the +18 lbs Spitfire IXc and the P-51D-25. We are only missing the P-47D in fact. Now, I can perfectly understand why some would want ridiculously rare and 'uber' planes like the XIV or the Tempest that turned up in insignificant, penny packet numbers at the very end of the conflict, but luckily, the correct and historical choice was already made. I am very amused by your use of the word "biased" given your reasoning if the XIV and Tempest were insignificant then the same could of course be said for the D9 and K4 they were rare compared to the number of previous variants that formed the bulk of both airforces. However the fact remains that when the Tempest, XI, Kurfürst and Dora arrived the allies had gone from air superiority to air supremacy, no one can argue that the biggest threat to the RAF from September to the end of the war was not the Luftwaffe instead it was flak that concerned pilots and the figures confirm this. So I agree the Tempest and XIVs had as little impact to the war as just as the Dora, Kurfürst and 262 had little to no impact. Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Kurfürst: According to your sources, what plane was the most common adversary of the Mk IXc throughout its operational history? If it was a pie chart, how much percentage would the 109 K get? I truly admire your knowledge about these aircraft, but calling the Tempest a "ridiculously rare uber plane that turned up in insignificant numbers at the very end of the war" made me laugh out loud. The Tempest reached the frontline half a year before the 109K and there was 1700 built in total as opposed to the 1593 109K-s. Yet, you wouldn't use the same expressions for the Kurfürst, would you? Of course he wouldn't however the biggest impact both the Tempest and XIVs had was to nullify the threat of flying bombs :D If the flying bombs weren't used the Tempest and XIVs would have been at the frontline quicker and perhaps there impact great, however as I previously explained this is a mute point given the air supremacy held by the allies in 1944 Also remember that the K4 had to be shared out on two fronts while the Tempest and XIVs only had one. Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Well, Im hoping for a release sooner rather than later, hopefully then all these nit picking arguments on this thread will calm down a bit. I for one really dont mind what Mk Spitfire ED gives us, what order the rivets are on the wings or how many were built etc etc. I have faith in ED that what they will give us will be a true as possible and within the limitations of DCS a great representation of a ledgend and a great module to fly, which is what this thread is supposed to be about. Heres hoping for some news on the old girl later today :) System :- i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12 core, ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming, 64GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3200MHz, 24GB Asus ROG Strix Geforce RTX 3090, 1x 500GB Samsung 980 PRO M.2, 1x 2TB Samsung 980 PRO M.2, Corsair 1000W RMx Series Modular 80 Plus Gold PSU, Windows 10. VIRPIL VPC WarBRD Base with HOTAS Warthog Stick and Warthog Throttle, VIRPIL ACE Interceptor Pedals, VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus Base with a Hawk-60 Grip, HP Reverb G2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfürst Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 To the first question, I would say the Opel Blitz and English sheep would definitely dominate that pie chart. More seriously, there is no escape from what is there and what is not on the late 1944 2nd TAF OOB and equipment tables. Secondly, I am curious what you would call a plane that turned up in the frontlines in the end of 1944 and never amounted to more than about 50-60 in service, i.e. the Tempest. Hell, there were more 262s around then Tempests and XIVs combined. But then, I might be wrong. Would you list to me, for my enlightenment a) number of Tempest on operational strenght during 1944 (that is, w/o reserves, no aircraft sitting in storage) b) the number of aircraft claims made by Tempest per month to see their operational significance Maybe then we can see a clearer picture of the Tempest's "significane" as a fighter plane (which doesn't change the fact that it's my fav RAF fighter at the same time). http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfürst Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) Typo.:pilotfly: :smartass: Not to mention that in 1944 only over 500 K4's were built and some sources say that most of them went to the eastern front, compared to multiple G6 and G14 subersions which reached units at the Western front. 854 to be precise, compared to about 300 Mk XIV... in about 5 Squadrons, the 1st one IICR deployed to continent in October 1944 (i.e. 12 planes) with another two or three in November and December 1944. That's less than 50 in operation in any practical range to the frontlines. Hugely significant impact compared to the cc 30 Mk IX/XVI Sqns the 2nd TAF employed there at the same time, isn't it. And, I'd like to know which units operated the K-4 on the EF in 1944. Edited July 29, 2016 by Kurfürst http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 The Mk IX Spit entered service in late 1942. Yes, it was in service in 1944, and it did face 109 K-s, but if these amounted to more than 2% of the aircraft encountered in total by Mk IXs, I will get naked and run around the city center. The biggest chunk there would be Fritzes and Gustavs, as well as Antons. This is my point. 1944 didn't end in April when the Tempest entered service, and although I don't have any docs about how many were in service at a time, 50-60 seems very dubious provided there were more than 1500 built in total. 8 Squadrons used them in WW2. You probably know better than I do that it was not a pure fighter, so what point would listing aerial victories make? Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) According to this website there were 8 operational squadrons of Tempest http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/action/units So according to you they only had 8.5 aircraft each, pretty sure you will find that a squadron actually had ~20 aircraft :D Furthermore figures don't give us the whole story, even if every single 109 from 1944 had been a K4 it still wouldn't have made up for the lack of pilots and fuel. It was unfortunate that such an irrelevant variant of the 109 was chosen and the only solution to this is either VEAO'S XIV or someone makes the 109G6 (my preferred choice) or later which makes more sense for Normandy. Don't forget we are getting the ME262 whose main opposition was...? Yes you guessed it the Tempest and XIVs Edited July 29, 2016 by Krupi Corrected No. Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted July 29, 2016 ED Team Share Posted July 29, 2016 At this point it doesnt matter, these are the aircraft we have right now. Going over these same facts repeatedly isnt going to change that right now. Lets keep the discussion on the Spitfire module please. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwilightZone Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 .......looking good, can't wait...... ;-) P-51, 190-D9, 109-K4, Spitfire MK IX, Normandy, and everything else:joystick: i7 4770K, 4.3ghz, 32gb ram, Windows-10 Pro, Z87 Exstreme4, Corsair 850w psu, Samsung Evo 1T SSD & 250 SSD, Titan-X 12gb OC, Asus ROG Swift 27"/1440p/144hz/1ms monitor, Trackir 5, TM Warthog & 10cm extension, Saitek TPM, MFG crosswind pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeldomSeen Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 :thumbup: P-51, 109K4, 190D9, Spitfire MK IX, Normady :joystick: i7 7700K, 4.4ghz, 32gb ram, Windows-10 Pro, ASRock Z270 board, Corsair 1000w psu, Samsung Evo 1T SSD & 250 SSD, Titan-X 12gb OC, Asus ROG Swift 24”, 180Hz/1ms, G-SYNC Monitor, Trackir 5, mfg Crosswind pedals, TM warthog, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWillis Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Bunyap, how can you do that to us! I already really really want the Spitfire IXc. Now I really really really really really want it - a lot! Seriously though, as always, a very well presented and detailed review. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenb Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Two Reg numbers MH434 and MH101 are we getting two or will there be squadron variations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Two Reg numbers MH434 and MH101 are we getting two or will there be squadron variations? Probably just different skins. I imagine people will make their own skins too. My *new* AV-8B sim-pit build thread: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3901589 The old Spitfire sim-pit build thread circa '16/17: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=143452 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Ah yes, the wide range of RAF camouflage and markings to explore. :hehe: :sleep: My skins/liveries for Fw 190 D-9 and Bf 109 K-4: My blog or Forums. Open for requests as well. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Ah yes, the wide range of RAF camouflage and markings to explore. :hehe: :sleep: :megalol: Why does bad guy equipment always look so cool :D Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flare2000x Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 While there's not much variety I love the RAF camo. Using your own markings is fun too, hope we don't get stupid 01-0 or whatever, half the time we fly one! ED should make it so you can pick your own skin and letters in multiplayer. posted from mobile, excuse stupid errors please! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] DCS:WWII 1944 BACKER --- Fw. 190D-9 --- Bf. 109K-4 --- P-51D --- Spitfire! Specs: Intel i7-3770 @3.9 Ghz - NVidia GTX 960 - 8GB RAM - OCz Vertex 240GB SSD - Toshiba 1TB HDD - Corsair CX 600M Power Supply - MSI B75MA-P45 MoBo - Defender Cobra M5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) :music_whistling: I read that the IXe was fitted with rockets, however I didn't know the IXc was also what I read suggested only two rockets were fitted operationally not 4... Rockets were apparently used by No.74 Squadron, another reason for having an IXe :cry: Rockets and Bombs in the same load-out! Edited July 31, 2016 by Krupi Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klem Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 ...although.... http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html/3 "The Type C and E wings were structurally identical, differing only in armament installation. This diagram shows the layout of cannon and .5″ M2 Browning installation in the latter." "An interesting curiosity is that several C-wing Spitfires LF Mk. IX of No. 485 (New Zealand) Squadron were converted to carry the Hispanos and .50 Brownings just before D-Day." <cough> Please Sir, may I transfer to 485 Squadron?? klem 56 RAF 'Firebirds' ASUS ROG Strix Z390-F mobo, i7 8086A @ 5.0 GHz with Corsair H115i watercooling, Gigabyte 2080Ti GAMING OC 11Gb GPU , 32Gb DDR4 RAM, 500Gb and 256Gb SSD SATA III 6Gb/s + 2TB , Pimax 8k Plus VR, TM Warthog Throttle, TM F18 Grip on Virpil WarBRD base, Windows 10 Home 64bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) Even more interesting is the following paragraph from this article http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/sorting-out-the-e-american-armament-for-the-spitfire-mk-ixxvi.html "The first Spitfire LF Mk. XVI, MJ556, flew in December 1943 and carried “C”-type armament. The squadrons did not start receiving the new mark until the beginning of October 1944, when mass production of this variant commenced at the Castle Bromwich factory. During winter 1944-1945, LF Mk. XVIE replaced the LF Mk. IX as the most common fighter type in the 2nd TAF on the Continent." I wasn't aware that the XVI ever became the most common type, very interesting. Edited August 1, 2016 by Krupi Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 "It is generally believed that all production examples of the Mk. XVI carried the “American” armament. This is, however, difficult to confirm with certainity. Confusingly, the designation “LF. XVIE” first appeared in CBAF records around May-June 1945. The first low-back Mk. XVI, SM410, left CBAF for trials on 30 March 1945, so it is possible that at the time of its introduction, the “E” suffix was intended to refer to the low-back Spitfire and/or the previously mentioned changes in wing plumbing incorporated in that variant. Perhaps we’ll never know." I thought the "low backs" arrived earlier than that, they really would have been uncommon until the very end. Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerd1000 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Even more interesting is the following paragraph from this article http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/sorting-out-the-e-american-armament-for-the-spitfire-mk-ixxvi.html "The first Spitfire LF Mk. XVI, MJ556, flew in December 1943 and carried “C”-type armament. The squadrons did not start receiving the new mark until the beginning of October 1944, when mass production of this variant commenced at the Castle Bromwich factory. During winter 1944-1945, LF Mk. XVIE replaced the LF Mk. IX as the most common fighter type in the 2nd TAF on the Continent." I wasn't aware that the XVI ever became the most common type, very interesting. My suspicion is that by 1944 Merlin 266s from the US were available in greater numbers than UK-built Merlin 66, leading to most late war production of merlin spitfires being Mk XVIs (also remember that 2-stage Griffon versions were ready, so Supermarine were probably scaling back Mk IX production to make room for Mk XIVs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 My suspicion is that by 1944 Merlin 266s from the US were available in greater numbers than UK-built Merlin 66, leading to most late war production of merlin spitfires being Mk XVIs (also remember that 2-stage Griffon versions were ready, so Supermarine were probably scaling back Mk IX production to make room for Mk XIVs). Yes that makes a lot of sense :thumbup: Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 My suspicion is that by 1944 Merlin 266s from the US were available in greater numbers than UK-built Merlin 66, leading to most late war production of merlin spitfires being Mk XVIs (also remember that 2-stage Griffon versions were ready, so Supermarine were probably scaling back Mk IX production to make room for Mk XIVs). What is also interesting is that the XVI became the most common aircraft and yet only around a 1000 produced, more XIV were manufactured by the end! Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Just reminding myself what she's going to look like :D It's been nearly 16 weeks since we saw this! the old girl has to be close now!! System :- i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12 core, ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming, 64GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3200MHz, 24GB Asus ROG Strix Geforce RTX 3090, 1x 500GB Samsung 980 PRO M.2, 1x 2TB Samsung 980 PRO M.2, Corsair 1000W RMx Series Modular 80 Plus Gold PSU, Windows 10. VIRPIL VPC WarBRD Base with HOTAS Warthog Stick and Warthog Throttle, VIRPIL ACE Interceptor Pedals, VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus Base with a Hawk-60 Grip, HP Reverb G2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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