More speed Sensation!

[SkateZilla]

Older pc simulator seems more slower yet!

 

Look at this:

 

 

I am talking about visuals!

 

 

 

 

Because Old Games had Lower Resolution and Smaller FoV.

 

Google it, FoV Sense of Speed

 

Other than that, some of those Older Games Ran VESA 800x600 At 15 FPS.

 

Higher FPS Makes Motion look Smoother, With Wider FoV Items Will Zoom By

[Flagrum]

Older pc simulator seems more slower yet!

 

Look at this:

 

 

I am talking about visuals!

 

The "visuals" is just a representation of how things are modelled (formulas etc.). You can not separate both - or if you do, they just won't fit together (i.e. would contradict each other, "don't add up"). It is just two sides of the same medal ...

 

All you can do is to try to get a natural as possible setup of your "viewing system", especially a more natural field of view. And ofc the level of detail is important:

You will only get realistic speed sensation if you increase the detail of objects, ground textures and other visual effects.

You can see that really good in Arma 2 and 3. How more detail and objects are on the map how faster the helicopter flying seems to go. Its because of the fast changing scenery thats never the same. So you perceive it differently.

 

If you fly over a featureless desert (or whatever it was in your last video), you could not tell if you fly 200 kts or 800 kts. But if the environment changes, you have a better reference of yourself in relation to your surroundings - and can estimate/percieve your speed better.

 

Everything else would require magic ... or a star trek warp drive ("warp bubble" :o)

Edited November 10, 2013 by Flagrum

[Shadoware]

Because Old Games had Lower Resolution and Smaller FoV.

 

Google it, FoV Sense of Speed

 

Other than that, some of those Older Games Ran VESA 800x600 At 15 FPS.

 

Higher FPS Makes Motion look Smoother, With Wider FoV Items Will Zoom By

 

Theres also some efects that can increase speed sensation, like bluring textures used in race games!

 

The point is: There are ways to improve speed sensation!

Maybe put a motion blur just in some parts of the ground!

 

 

AfrikaansAlbanianArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBulgarianCatalanChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CroatianCzechDanishDetect languageDutchEnglishEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekHaitian CreoleHebrewHindiHungarianIcelandicIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseKoreanLatinLatvianLithuanianMacedonianMalayMalteseNorwegianPersianPolishPortugueseRomanianRussianSerbianSlovakSlovenianSpanishSwahiliSwedishThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduVietnameseWelshYiddish⇄AfrikaansAlbanianArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBulgarianCatalanChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekHaitian CreoleHebrewHindiHungarianIcelandicIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseKoreanLatinLatvianLithuanianMacedonianMalayMalteseNorwegianPersianPolishPortugueseRomanianRussianSerbianSlovakSlovenianSpanishSwahiliSwedishThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduVietnameseWelshYiddish

Detect language » Portuguese

 

[Flagrum]

Theres also some efects that can increase speed sensation, like bluring textures used in race games!

 

The point is: There are ways to improve speed sensation!

Maybe put a motion blur just in some parts of the ground!

Lol, the first thing I turn off in every game is motion blur ...

 

Maybe change your settings to "low" if you want a blurry environment ...

[Shadoware]

Lol, the first thing I turn off in every game is motion blur ...

 

Maybe change your settings to "low" if you want a blurry environment ...

 

You didnt realize that many games that doesnt uses motion blur, actually change the asfalt textures whem you are running!

 

Last question: If the game could pass more speed feeling would you like it or not?

 

The programmers knows how to do it!

 

Thanks!

 

 

AfrikaansAlbanianArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBulgarianCatalanChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CroatianCzechDanishDetect languageDutchEnglishEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekHaitian CreoleHebrewHindiHungarianIcelandicIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseKoreanLatinLatvianLithuanianMacedonianMalayMalteseNorwegianPersianPolishPortugueseRomanianRussianSerbianSlovakSlovenianSpanishSwahiliSwedishThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduVietnameseWelshYiddish⇄AfrikaansAlbanianArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBulgarianCatalanChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekHaitian CreoleHebrewHindiHungarianIcelandicIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseKoreanLatinLatvianLithuanianMacedonianMalayMalteseNorwegianPersianPolishPortugueseRomanianRussianSerbianSlovakSlovenianSpanishSwahiliSwedishThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduVietnameseWelshYiddish

Detect language » Portuguese

 

[Flagrum]

You didnt realize that many games that doesnt uses motion blur, actually change the asfalt textures whem you are running!

Might be. And this might be somewhat acceptable - at least when compared to actualy blurred objects when you move past them. Tbh, there is not much appeal to me when it comes to details of asphalt ...

 

Last question: If the game could pass more speed feeling would you like it or not?

Yes, I would not mind if I could experience a better feeling of speed. But that is not an issue of the software as such that "is viewing stuff to slow". It is a matter of FoV (primarily a matter of your display hardware), level of detail and perhaps FPS (both a matter of software and CPU/GPU power - which is worked on by ED already: EDGE)

The programmers knows how to do it!

 

Thanks!

There is no magic bullet. There are just tricks and dohickeys ... that in the end do bad to other aspects of the game.

[Rongor]

Look at this FC3 video and compare it to the first video I post!

 

The speed doesnt seem the same!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_sxnbVeQtQ

 

Thanx!

Will you please note that the SU-27 is a afterburner using jet with a speed of way beyond mach 1? The a-10 operates at about 300-350 kts. It doesnt make any sense to compare these.

[xxJohnxx]

Last question: If the game could pass more speed feeling would you like it or not?

 

I would like more speed feeling, but not provided by the game. I rather prefer a bigger screen or the Ocolus Rift (if it would come in better resolution) than motion blur or increased speed of aircrafts.

 

Just take a look at the Mi-8 or Huey. If you fly low and fast, you really will get the speed sensation you are looking for, because you are rather close to the ground and especially in the Huey you can directly look at the ground.

 

And as an additional point: Speeding up aircraft for whatever purpose, while trying to maintain flight dynamics and gauges is probably much much much more difficult than you think. Just saying! :smilewink:

[Shadoware]

If the programmers put some snow or other elements, you would see it passing fast over the canopy and this would give more speed feeling too!

[theGozr]

IRL the ground is far from been blurred.

[Shadoware]

This is an old topic, but I watch a video, so I had to post again!

I think I realize what the problem really is.

Its the scale! When you fly very low, the ground texture is design to appear like if you were at higher altitude.

 

Look at this video and realize that is just a helicopter! Jetfigher fly at much greater speeds, but this game can pass a more realistic speed sensation!

 

[Icarus1976]

This is an old topic, but I watch a video, so I had to post again!

I think I realize what the problem really is.

Its the scale! When you fly very low, the ground texture is design to appear like if you were at higher altitude.

 

Look at this video and realize that is just a helicopter! Jetfigher fly at much greater speeds, but this game can pass a more realistic speed sensation!

 

 

DCS World was released 2008. You can't compare it to ArmA3. Which was released 2014. That's 6 years apart. Just wait for DCSW 2.0 and while you're doing that zoom out your cockpit view. The video you posted of going through the mountains is very much zoomed in.

[CallsignFrosty]

please be a troll... otherwise I have just lost all and any faith in humanity!

[Python]

It is a common problem with most flight sims, they just don't have enough detail to give the sensation of speed you see in reality, not to mention the reduced FOV and lack of peripheral vision. But DCS 2.0 does seem on track to improve this...

 

 

[doveman]

One thing I've always thought would be great is to be able to put a monitor either side of my head, where the side windows of the cockpit would be, so that I can see them in my peripheral vision (and quickly glance at them) for a better sensation of movement. Unfortunately DCS can't generate such additional views at the moment but maybe one day.

[Weltensegler]

Other tools to sell speed when working in vfx are wispy clouds. In DCS 2.0 it seems we have some rain effect looking and working as such so along the line that and more ground detail will achieve the same.

Currently you can only get that when the flight model is arcade (arma) and the map is covered by a 2 minute flight.

[pittlebelge]

Illusion of speed is an interesting problem. I'd like to point out a few things.

 

While flight sims are a niche market, there is an analog problem in the driving sim and well, many other games. The odd thing is that no matter the graphical power of the hardware, at any time, for every generation of console or computer, some games manage to get the illusion right and some don't.

 

To me this sound like an artistic problem. Let me elaborate.

 

The feeling of speed IRL is much more than just visual detail moving a certain way. We have many other senses that reinforce the feeling. We hear engine noise, or wing blowing. We have a nice accelero-meter in the inner ear and the guts to tell us that we are subjected to acceleration and vibrations. Our whole skin sends messages to the brain telling "this is not right". The point is : since in games we can only work with audio and video, to get a sense of speed, we must cheat. And cheating our senses is sort of the jobs of artists.

 

Now cheating is a dangerous game especially for us as we tend to like Realism. There are many tricks available but lets just point out a few.

 

Close static references. Since we have a greater sense of speed when objects fly by close to us, we could have some particles in the air let's say these :

 

http://absoluteairmartinez.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/pollen.jpg

 

If they are limited to low level and if we have a nice slider in the option menu to change their density (down to 0), we could have a nice increase in our speed sensation. It's a trick that is common in space sims as there are not always reference point in the FOV to tell the player that the ship is moving.

 

Another trick is to have subtle "brush strokes" in the textures and to have the strokes point to the center of the screen. Perhaps some obscure shared technology could help.

 

FOV : We have the immense luxury to be able to change our FOV "on the fly" and I love it. But lets imagine that we would allow for a few degrees of FOV to change depending on acceleration. This is also a common trick and it works quite well as our brain knows that speed is integrated over acceleration.

 

Anyway I'd like to hear from you guys what games most conveyed that sense of speed.

 

Cheers

[Python]

Have a look at the L-39 flying low on this unbelievable set up...

 

 

[Icarus1976]

Have a look at the L-39 flying low on this unbelievable set up...

 

 

 

By the rate I'm going it will take 3 lifetimes to be able to afford this kinda setup. Cool stuff!

Bet you could buy a real plane if you sell this thing on the black market. lol ;)

[PiedDroit]

One thing I've always thought would be great is to be able to put a monitor either side of my head, where the side windows of the cockpit would be, so that I can see them in my peripheral vision (and quickly glance at them) for a better sensation of movement. Unfortunately DCS can't generate such additional views at the moment but maybe one day.

Actually it can, it's the 3 camera lua config file, it configures 3 viewports, one in front and one on either side.

having those on the side add to the speed impression as you see the scenery traversing in your peripheral vision.

[lxvanwyk]

looks fine to me

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB2fPI45GVw

[Czar66]

Funny thing. A long time ago, I was playing some novalogic's F-16 simulator: Time period simulator category valid but not for today standards. i.e.: speeds were correct to the aircraft type so, moving on.

 

A friend of mine who used to play a lot of ace combat or whatever the arcade plane shooting infinite missiles 50+g experience was in playstation 1 at the time. I never really got into those madness of games but I understand that they were good.

 

My friend, watching that f-16 at 5,000 ft told me the game was too slow. No matter how low I got he was never pleased, even when supersonic.

 

Exporting arcade games feel towards simulation games causes underwhelm. If your brain is used to images of those 50+g turns and bullet like accelerations you would end up making a thread to raise the actual model speed of a simulator at a certain distance to the ground only because it "feels" right.

 

Somethings to keep in mind: caucasus map is old, and even older in some sections (north portion). Speed sensation is caused by objects and detail surrounding your POV as pittlebelge very well explained.

 

As being an OLD map, the mesh is not quite there and even the textures. Actual 10 meters on the actual 3d world and simulation registration might not even feel 2 meters because of the texture's pixel size.

 

A-10s are SLOW. If it feels slow up high, is because the simulator is actually working. If it did feel fast as a F-15, I probably wouldn't be typing this today, got my money back in 2011 or forgotten about Eagle Dynamics even existed after FC2.

 

This is the video you should "kind off" be looking the sim to match:

 

 

For speed sensation: buy F-15 or the Su-27 stand alone and full throttle at 30 meters from the ground anywhere on the caucasus map. It gets me every time.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Czar66

[Blooze]

Considering the video in the previous post it's obvious to me that after one entered the DCS A-10C cockpit one would have to zoom out to achieve a more realistic FOV similar to what is shown in the RL cockpit video. We all know that the more you zoom out from the default cockpit view the greater the sense of speed becomes and closer it looks to the real deal. Unfortunately it would probably require a much larger monitor than most have to maintain this FOV and still be able to see the MFDs well enough to stay there during a mission. I am hoping that future VR hardware like the Rift will solve this.

[Czar66]

Considering the video in the previous post it's obvious to me that after one entered the DCS A-10C cockpit one would have to zoom out to achieve a more realistic FOV similar to what is shown in the RL cockpit video. We all know that the more you zoom out from the default cockpit view the greater the sense of speed becomes and closer it looks to the real deal. Unfortunately it would probably require a much larger monitor than most have to maintain this FOV and still be able to see the MFDs well enough to stay there during a mission. I am hoping that future VR hardware like the Rift will solve this.

 

Blooze, you're considering the pilot's FOV is the same as the wide FOV lens that camera has. There's no "realistic" fov in the video.

 

"after one entered the DCS A-10C cockpit one would have to zoom out to achieve a more realistic FOV" I do agree with that.

 

Yes, wider FOV will always increase the sense of speed as the further from the center of the image faster the objects move. A direct image to the right or to the left will display the maximum object speed you can see from the seat and so on.

[Shadoware]

Illusion of speed is an interesting problem. I'd like to point out a few things.

 

While flight sims are a niche market, there is an analog problem in the driving sim and well, many other games. The odd thing is that no matter the graphical power of the hardware, at any time, for every generation of console or computer, some games manage to get the illusion right and some don't.

 

To me this sound like an artistic problem. Let me elaborate.

 

The feeling of speed IRL is much more than just visual detail moving a certain way. We have many other senses that reinforce the feeling. We hear engine noise, or wing blowing. We have a nice accelero-meter in the inner ear and the guts to tell us that we are subjected to acceleration and vibrations. Our whole skin sends messages to the brain telling "this is not right". The point is : since in games we can only work with audio and video, to get a sense of speed, we must cheat. And cheating our senses is sort of the jobs of artists.

 

Now cheating is a dangerous game especially for us as we tend to like Realism. There are many tricks available but lets just point out a few.

 

Close static references. Since we have a greater sense of speed when objects fly by close to us, we could have some particles in the air let's say these :

 

http://absoluteairmartinez.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/pollen.jpg

 

If they are limited to low level and if we have a nice slider in the option menu to change their density (down to 0), we could have a nice increase in our speed sensation. It's a trick that is common in space sims as there are not always reference point in the FOV to tell the player that the ship is moving.

 

Another trick is to have subtle "brush strokes" in the textures and to have the strokes point to the center of the screen. Perhaps some obscure shared technology could help.

 

FOV : We have the immense luxury to be able to change our FOV "on the fly" and I love it. But lets imagine that we would allow for a few degrees of FOV to change depending on acceleration. This is also a common trick and it works quite well as our brain knows that speed is integrated over acceleration.

 

Anyway I'd like to hear from you guys what games most conveyed that sense of speed.

 

Cheers

 

Good sugestions!