To all Huey and MI-8 Pilots

[BBQ]

Greetings fellow rotor-heads!

 

I've only scratched the surface with both the Huey and the MI-8, as I spend most of my time in the Ka-50. I've been flying lately, with all of the auto-pilot channels off, and it seems (naturally) to feel more like flying a previous generation helo like the MI-8 or Huey - which got me thinking....

 

If any of you haven't yet taken the Ka-50 up, or have just begun - a bit of advice:

 

Since you're used to and presumably comfortable with flying the older gen helos, I would suggest you start flying the Ka-50 with all of the auto-pilot channels off as well -- as it will feel more like the experience of flying the other helos -- then you could enable a single channel, one at a time, to see how it affects the flight controls.

 

If I had to do it all over again, I would have started this way myself, hindsight being 20/20!

[zaelu]

I fly it with channel off very often... usually on the way home to base returning from encounters with unfriendly AA. Is true that after flying UH1H and Mi-8 flying the Shark with channels off feels natural and not a big issue :D .

[Scarecrow]

I purchased a learned the Huey before BS and I feel it gave me a better understanding/appreciation of the AP and it's advantages. I'd say it's the best way to learn as I've never entered VRS in the Shark without being shot in the face first :)

[Avimimus]

What is the fastest way to turn the correctors off again? I want to assign a button shortcut but I can't find it in the control menus.

[Serp Supreme]

What is the fastest way to turn the correctors off again? I want to assign a button shortcut but I can't find it in the control menus.

 

There's a category in the Ka-50 controls called "Ins Autopilot," you can find all you need right there.

[159th_Falcon]

Its better to learn what the "ap" is and does and what the "sas" is and does and use the systems accordingly.

 

The Auto Pilot is never on in the KA-50 unless you turn it on.

The SAS should always be on, unless system damages prevent this ofcourse.

 

Also, i find that the MI-8 and KA-50 fly very similarly whit regards to the SAS, and the need to trim.

[seikdel]

Except that the Hip has a) microswitches on the pedals that interrupt the heading channel and b) awesome trim dials that let you pretend you're a fixed-wing!

[KaspeR32]

Isn't just using flight director a better option? That way you get all the dampening of the channels but without the autopilot trying to maintain a certain heading/pitch/ etc.

[hannibal]

keep the heli tips coming! :)

[159th_Falcon]

Isn't just using flight director a better option? That way you get all the dampening of the channels but without the autopilot trying to maintain a certain heading/pitch/ etc.

 

No its not, then again, its each to there own i suppose. Were not flying for a company here for which we have to comply whit there operational procedures.

(or a military for that matter)

 

But really, get used to the trimmer and it will benefit you greatly. Especially in combat situations.

 

@ seikdell, i'm pretty sure the real KA-50 has pedal switches to, no idea about the one in the sim though.

No need for dials if you can do the same whit a single button, as i said earlier, its well worth it getting familiar whit the trimmer.

 

@ hannibal, what others tips would you like? There's loads more things to keep in mind but there all bound to set off another endless discussion about one thing or another.

So better pic your subject carefully.:D

[Dr_Arrow]

I have flown KA-50 at first and after I mastered the 8 and returned to KA-50 I cannot imagine flying it without autopilot channels under normal circumstances. Now I appreciate even more what the AP channels (on top of SAS) are doing for me. Control of the Shark seems now so easy and gives me a plenty of room to concentrate on the mission itself, weapon employment, sensors, etc.

[esb77]

Well, I do sometimes fly the Mi-8 with AP channels off, mostly to practice having a light hand on the stick and not overcontrolling.

 

The Ka-50 is a fundamentally different craft from the tail rotor helicopters. You can perform maneuvers with impunity that would be impossible with a tail rotor configuration. A lot of it's improved flight characteristics stem directly from the rotor configuration.

 

That said, the Ka-50 has a much more robust set of control automation systems, because they are supposed to be able to carry much of the pilot's workload so that the pilot can focus on combat related tasks without crashing. The consequence of this is that if you don't learn to use the SAS and Autopilot systems effectively you are either failing to take advantage of a very important aircraft system, or even worse, misusing it in a way that makes flight much more difficult.

 

There are several, very long, threads on AP use in the Ka-50 forum. They're definitely worth reading, as misuse of the AP seems to be a very common beginners mistake in the Ka-50.

[VanjaB]

Ive always wondered, why isnt the heli one button trim system implemented in fixed wing aircraft. Its so much more elegant...

[pappavis]

The autopilot n the Ka-50 is extremely useful.

 

Flying the UH-1H , then transitionng to the Ka-50 is jaw-droping awesome. The UH-1H is a perfect trainer. I can land the Ka-50 much more easily, hover stable etc etc. Also, my general flight skills in the Su-25 has drastically improved.

Previously my gunzo straving attacks was terrible. The UH-1H taught me to fly straight, smooth, level flight.

 

In figures;

1. Pre- UH-1 --> Su-25T 70% of my rockets missed, 90% gunzo straving missed, 95% bombs dropped missed.

2. Post UH-1 --> Su-25T (applied to the Su-25), EXACT the opposite!! 90% gunzo attacks = kill, 90% bombs dead on target, 90% rocket attacks S-8OFP) are 90% PK.

3. Post UH-1 --> Ka-50 landing, hovering training.. <=10 minutes!!!

 

Flight trainingtime:

* UH-1H hovertrainging, gunzo <>12 hours.

* SU-25(T) straving attacks traingintime <>8 hours.

 

 

The UH-1H is a hell of a good trainer for both fixed wing and helo's. Now flying the Ka-50 with autopilot stabilzation = BLISS!! :smartass:

Edited December 11, 2013 by pappavis

[Flagrum]

I'd say this is pretty bad advice.

 

Learn to fly the ka-50 as it was designed, with the flight stabilisation systems on as they should be 99% of the time.

This!

 

I, too, think that learning to fly the Huey first could help quite a bit to become proficient with the Blackshark. I also think, that flying the BS without any electronic aid can be fun and also lead to some insight when experimenting with the AP to experience it's effects wether it is turned on or off.

 

BUT I also strongly advise to not ignore the stabilisation systems "just because I can fly the Ka-50 without it just fine and don't want to be bothered with it's complexities".

 

These systems are there for a purpose. Alone the fact that the Ka-50 is a full grown attack helicopter with a multitude of complex weapon systems at your disposal plus the fact that it is single seated - compared to the Huey with some machine guns AND a separate gunner for them in the cockpit.

 

The AP/stab. system - once fully understood - helps you big time to fly and to focus on your mission, instead of just flying.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Flagrum
1. typo, 2. an other typo, 3. guess what ..., 4. "Reason for Editing" :o)

[Cibit]

I went the BS, huey, Hip, BS2 route.

I had over 100 hours in BS

After flying 15 hours in Huey I got the Hip, never touched another aircraft till I had 60 day and 8 night flying hours in the Mi-8 now the huey is so easy to control and the BS2 flies itself.

 

So for me learn on the HIP with auto stabilization as required

then everything else is piece of pi$$:thumbup:

Edited December 11, 2013 by Cibit

[secret8440]

After so many hours flying the huey fighting with the stabilizer bar, torque, translational lift and shaking all over the cockpit i cant even think to turn off the AP on the KA 50 xD

My left foot is killing me :lol:

 

I found a good way to manouver the KA 50 overriding the AP channels by keep pressed the trim button. I dont know if this is a realistic thing to do, but it works for me.

 

Right now i love the Shark even more than before.

[RagnarDa]

Arguing to fly the Ka-50 with AP-channels off is like telling people to brush their teeth without toothpaste. The only reason people have problems using the AP is because they haven't spent 5 minutes reading this:

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_429a.html

and

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_430a.html

[BitMaster]

Learn how to constantly use the trimmer and fly transitions with trimmer PRESSED & HELD down.

 

that is the only single advice that will get you very far in the KA, it just needs some stick time and concentration.

 

It is essential to be able to also fly the KA without ANY digital/gyroskopic help in case you get hit and need to RTB with those systems off. In any scenario, you'd be a fool to not use the AP's assistance to free up your mind for SA as long as they function.

 

The KA is a nice chopper, but one you really have to "fly" by hand & brains and keep concentrated

all the time or a YAW/BANK will come sooner than you think.

 

Anyone R/C heli I flew was less demanding in trim and concentration than this KA

if you want t present a smooth style without those ugly nose ups etc... .

 

Bit

[KennethBF]

Ive always wondered, why isnt the heli one button trim system implemented in fixed wing aircraft. Its so much more elegant...

 

Not at all elegant, it's a terrible way of trim. It will never be implemented on a fixed wing.

 

I guess you are a unexperienced fixed wing pilot.

[KennethBF]

Except that the Hip has a) microswitches on the pedals that interrupt the heading channel and b) awesome trim dials that let you pretend you're a fixed-wing!

 

I actually fly the Mi-8MTV2 as a fixed wing.... with vertical take off possibilities. You do not lurk around with it as a KA-50.

 

You fly tha Mi-8 as you fly the Mi-24 = flyeing more like a fixed wing in engagement.

 

Tip of the day: Learn to use the hdg hold when at landing and take off. Also have the sas on. That will make the Mi-8 a fantastic rotor to land and take off with. Be carefull with the collective, and be patient and let it use the time it needs on the transition from flight to hoover.

Edited December 11, 2013 by KennethBF

[Flying Penguin]

Not at all elegant, it's a terrible way of trim. It will never be implemented on a fixed wing.

 

I guess you are a unexperienced fixed wing pilot.

 

Well actually it is used on some small aircraft and gliders, at least for pitch trim. Hold stick to maintain desired attitude, press trigger trim and make any final adjustments with the normal trim.

 

Generally not an option for aircraft with large control forces and aileron/rudder trim are not usually used so often as to be worth complicating, but a valid trim method in certain circumstances...

[159th_Falcon]

Arguing to fly the Ka-50 with AP-channels off is like telling people to brush their teeth without toothpaste. The only reason people have problems using the AP is because they haven't spent 5 minutes reading this:

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_429a.html

and

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_430a.html

 

Don't bother to waste your time, its not correct.

 

There is one really good post somewhere here on the forums that explains it very well. Question is, where is it?

[Weta43]

Arguing to fly the Ka-50 with AP-channels off is like telling people to brush their teeth without toothpaste. The only reason people have problems using the AP is because they haven't spent 5 minutes reading this:

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_429a.html

and

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_430a.html

 

This is one of the truest statements on the Forum. Do bother, it's a very good introduction the Ka-50 trimming system, and to using the AP to fly the aircraft correctly.

 

Don't bother to waste your time, its not correct.

 

And your reason for making this bald statement is ?

Edited December 14, 2013 by Weta43

[Jona33]

And your reason for making this bald statement is ?

 

He's worried about his hair loss, no wonder he wants to take out his frustration. :D