Why mavs on 2 stations?

[Serp Supreme]

Greetings, simple question here.

 

In the A-10C why did they design the jet so it can only carry the Mavs on two stations? In my opinion they are the most effective anti-tank weapon on the Hog, so why not allow them to be placed on more hardpoints? Even if its just two more, thats 12 mavericks, you know what I can do with 12 mavericks? :D It just doesn't make sense to me.

[cichlidfan]

Might has something to do with the cost of Mavericks vs other weapons.

[Eddie]

Weight, drag, cost, practicality.

 

If you don't often need more than two in reality, why go the hassle of configuring the aircraft to carry more? Especially when it would require a redesign of the wing structure and hard points. And that's ignoring the tactics & procedures aspect.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Eddie

[Serp Supreme]

According to Wikipedia, Mavs are 17 to 110 thousand, depending on the variant. A JDAM for example is 25 thousand dollars. Besides, cost hasn't usually been an issue for US forces,(don't start a flame war over that) wouldn't it be nice to have that extra capability? It'd mean you'd be able to kill that many more enemy tanks before needing to return to base and rearm.

[NineLine]

According to Wikipedia, Mavs are 17 to 110 thousand, depending on the variant. A JDAM for example is 25 thousand dollars. Besides, cost hasn't usually been an issue for US forces,(don't start a flame war over that) wouldn't it be nice to have that extra capability? It'd mean you'd be able to kill that many more enemy tanks before needing to return to base and rearm.

 

You got sniped by a more complete answer.... Maybe Eddie can conform this, but I thought I read that most pilot would prefer the manoeuvrability as opposed to weighing their aircraft down to the maximum as well...

[Serp Supreme]

True, but I'd much rather prefer 12 mavs and whatever else I need to take over loading as lightly as possible. As I fight and use up munitions I'll lose that weight. Maybe its just the fact that this is a sim after all, not the real thing, I dunno.

[NineLine]

True, but I'd much rather prefer 12 mavs and whatever else I need to take over loading as lightly as possible. As I fight and use up munitions I'll lose that weight. Maybe its just the fact that this is a sim after all, not the real thing, I dunno.

 

 

The fact that it is a sim is the reason you cant load up 12 Mavs ;)

[Eddie]

You NEED the speed and manoeuvrability, in order to avoid and defeat threats, maintain formation, employ the necessary tactics, and save fuel.

 

The big thing you're missing here is that in the real world, we don't add more weapons tot he aircraft, we add more aircraft to the mission.

 

And 12 mavs? Even of you could find enough targets in the real word which is doubtful, no sane pilot is going to make 12 attacks on the same target, even if they do have enough fuel to do so.

[Nealius]

Try flying the A-10 in 105F with 2 Mavericks and study some basic aeronautics and you will instantly realize why any more than 4 Mavericks is a bad idea.

 

I flew with 6 Mavericks on the F-16 in BMS once. Never again.

[AlphaOneSix]

A little OT but note that Apaches in A-stan only carry 2 Hellfires.

[joey45]

A little OT but note that Apaches in A-stan only carry 2 Hellfires.

 

Brit or yank version...?

[AlphaOneSix]

There are no Brit Apaches over here anymore? At least I could have sworn they already left.

[OutOnTheOP]

You NEED the speed and manoeuvrability, in order to avoid and defeat threats, maintain formation, employ the necessary tactics, and save fuel...

 

...And 12 mavs? Even of you could find enough targets in the real word which is doubtful, no sane pilot is going to make 12 attacks on the same target, even if they do have enough fuel to do so.

 

Well... keep in mind that at date of introduction, it gave stand-off from the vast majority of air defense threats, so re-attacks aren't quite so bad as with gravity munitions.

 

I agree that 12 is very excessive, but what WOULD have been handy is the ability to carry one maverick on each of four stations: that way you'd lose the ridiculous drag of the LAU88 launcher, and avoid the problems with scorching the tires and all.

[AlphaOneSix]

It's the same helicopter.

 

Uh oh here we go....

[outlawal2]

It's the same helicopter. The reason is there's no point in carrying anything more. Hell the A-10s over there only carry practice rounds and no DU rounds because there's nothing over there worth shooting with the expensive stuff.

 

 

Careful.. It is a licensed version of the same helicopter but it is a very different animal as the Brit version has different and uprated engines (2100 Shaft HP vs 1890 SHP for the US version) that allow better performance than the standard US version.. (Us version uses same engines as the Black Hawk so parts are interchangeable and easier to supply but the performance is not as good as the Brit version.)

 

Look up the differences between the BOEING AH64 and the Licensed Brit version which is the Augusta Westland AH64..

Edited December 24, 2013 by outlawal2

[Serp Supreme]

Don't the British versions not have the Longbow radar as well? If I remember correctly they were closer to the A-variant than the D-variant

[AlphaOneSix]

Brit version is basically an AH-64D Longbow with upgraded engines.

[Eddie]

Don't the British versions not have the Longbow radar as well? If I remember correctly they were closer to the A-variant than the D-variant

 

No. Our version is a Longbow with over 200 modifications and upgrades.

 

Easy to spot from photos in Afghanistan as we keep the longbow radar installed on all aircraft all the time, whereas everyone else doesn't.

[outlawal2]

Don't the British versions not have the Longbow radar as well? If I remember correctly they were closer to the A-variant than the D-variant

 

Actually I think all of the Brit versions are Longbows... Certainly every pic I have ever seen of the British variants have had the Longbow installed..

 

Not 100% on that one though...

[SkateZilla]

regardless, Pretty sure 12 mavs would exceed the Max Takeoff weight. this isnt Ace Combat, If you want alot of Mavs, turn on unlimited Ammo.

[NineLine]

How heavy is a tactical nuke?

[Flagrum]

Why not Mavs on all stations? The Mav capable stations were just the ones the A-10A had, I think. Back then, the cost argument might weighted a bit more than nowadays, I could imagine.

And the upgrade to A-10C just didn't change that, I would guess. Probably it was considered cheaper (no new cables in the wings, etc.) and also already sufficient (as other smart ammunition was now available, too).

[ENO]

How heavy is a tactical nuke?

 

How much does a briefcase weigh?

 

 

On another note- the thing with the Apache and 2 hellfires... any link to the operating altitudes up in the mountains and surrounding areas or is it just the fact that there aren't that many hellfire targets?

 

I also noticed more 38s (well, laser / GPS guided units- what are those?) on the aircraft operating over there as well. And those flare dispensers...

 

More functional? Fewer mav targets?

 

On a side note- I am a convert from the old "armageddon" scenario loadout in DCS A-10C... my report to JTAC was "6 AGM-65D, 4 x CBU-97, 2 x kitchen sink, 1150 gun." Full load of fuel-

 

Then I'd spend my whole mission belly aching about how I didn't want to drop any altitude because it took me half a flight just to get up over the recommended deck of 13000. Ugh.

 

I absolutely love the handling of the aircraft with the lighter load- even 4 mavs is a lot unless I'm planning on shooting straight out of the gate.

 

Also, I know eddie posted a drag coefficient index somewhere- and I'll go look for it and paste it here because he mentions drag in one of his earlier posts but seeing that really helped drive the point home for me.

 

Edit:

 

Found it:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1621022&postcount=11

 

 

(correct version)

Edited December 24, 2013 by ENO

[AlphaOneSix]

On another note- the thing with the Apache and 2 hellfires... any link to the operating altitudes up in the mountains and surrounding areas or is it just the fact that there aren't that many hellfire targets?

 

Both. The altitudes are generally not *that* high! but less weight can't hurt as it just gives you more options. Also allows them to carry more 30mm, although I think they still only carry around 300 for it. Anyway, if they need more, they just bring more aircraft.

[Eddie]

Eno, check page 2 of that thread, I added the amendments there. Pretty sure I've posted the full list a few times in other threads as well.