P3CFE

Thanks Cibit, And I will...its a great module,...I will gladly spend time to tame this MI-8. Cheers

Oke thanks you all, that was a stupid mistake I made. I should have read 2 m/s, that is close to 400 ft/min, double of what I thought. Vortex makes sens again :) That makes me the part of the heli that is dangerous :(

Just a question about the presentation of the Ring vortex in DCS. With Mi8 in hover with load descending with 200 ft/min it went into vortex ring state on its own. This makes flying a helicopter far more risky than I thought. I would not want to get in such a heli in real life...much to dangerous !! I also think the helicopter would not be certified for flight because of being to unstable and unreliable. The huey is more forgiving but here also I got my doubts about the onset parameters of vortex. Is it really this critical in real life ? Does somebody really know ?

I' am very aware that a flight model should not be changed just because it doesn't feel good to someone. But if there is a doubt about it, I think that the guys who determined that flight behavior, should be interested in that doubt. They could look into it, and at least explain why they programmed that behavior. They are the specialists, and aim on having delivering realistic flight behavior I presume. A reaction from them is not to much to ask for in my opinion. In the worst case they could say that they don't know either !! By the way, for me it is more than just a feeling, the reaction on flapsetting is unexplainable, and not being backed up by anything I can find on internet. So ....Still hoping on a reaction from those who know .:music_whistling: Greetz

Why don't the Dev's react on this bug !! It is important that the flight model is as realistic as possible...specially in DCS, they must know !! The pitch moment with flap movement feels wrong, that should be reason enough to investigate this by the Dev's. They themselves should be annoyed by the fact that this does not feel good or is not explainable when flying this beautifull module. Hope the dev's share some info on this.

Agree :thumbup: And for now it is just the smoke that is visually behaving wrong, but makes you wonder if (with wind) this programming also is dragging weapons into the wrong direction after release. !! How can we get to know this ?? :huh:

Thanks for thinking with me. Thats what i mean., the smoke should not leave in an angle, once it leaves the engine. (if not side slipping or skidding). The aircraft is drifting in the same direction as the wind so to speak. Smoke and contrails will drift with the wind as viewed from the ground (stationary), but not in relation to the aircraft that is producing it. Greetz.

I've got the same question. What is being done with the bug reports ?? There is no way of knowing if there is no reply.... Feedback should be helping this sim evolve.....but it seems the feedback is not heard.. Hope this changes.

Could help remain invisible for a longer time before a high alt attack in multi player..:)

bump I don't know what this "Bump" means, but it breaks the silence :)

But I suppose it didn't, by the lack of reply !!

I agree it is hard to see, but specially the difference in blade angle between full left and full right rudder, starting from a stable powered flight situation, shows the animated blade angle difference at that moment. It would be great if one of the dev's of the beautiful Ka50 could reply to this an give the data. Somehow, though really not that important, it would make this Ka50 sim even more perfect. I'll give it a rest now..and see what it will bring. Greetz John

In the situation I described with the right rudder action (powerd flight), before I applied right rudder the visual coning an blade angle (visual when paused) viewed from the side in external view was stable. The only thing at that moment what could change the coning angle in this situation is an increased or decreased blade angle, thereby AoA and thereby lift. What I see in the sim at the moment I apply rudder to the right is that the rotor with the coning angle getting higher, shows (when paused at that moment) a smaller blade angle. This can't be right. Hope you wil reply John

Before whe go to that situation, I would like to get an opinion of the powered flight situation. If whe switch to the Autorotation discussion now, i'm shure it is getting harder to designate the bug. With all that is talked about it, I think it is time to defenately conclude that there is a bug or not... .so that it can be fixed........ or not !

Hello Sobek,..Just curious what your opinion is after reading my vision on it. You agree it is a bug ????

Are you convinced by this Rangi, or do you have an other opinion. ?

Contrails are formed by the water that is formed in the combustion proces of fuel. When the Air /fuel mixture leaves the engine it expands and cools down, and if the cool down is great enough (High altitudes), the water wil condensate as small droplets. The small sooth particles that are also formed by combustion, makes the condensation form even more densely because the water droplets are clinging around them. At those high altitudes the outside air temp can be as low as Minus 55 Celsius, this freezes the water droplets to small white ice particles, an gives the high contrast white trails that will slowly dissipate. The contrails (Condensation trails) you see high in the air behind airplanes, are behind the engines only and are not generated by aerodynamic effects of the structure or wing. The vapor appearing behind propellers or on wings is only temporary, it appears when the air pressure is lowered and expands, But because the air is going back to its previous pressure as soon as the structure is passed and because there is no water added like in the combustion proces and no real cooling down, te vapor wil dissolve again in the air mass. Hope this clarifies it somewhat,

I thought this bug was in the general programming of engines being on or off. But now it seems to be programmed for every module in DCS separate and so it can be different for every module. The fact remains that for de F86 Sabre, the contrail remains after engine shutdown. Is there somebody who can tell if this bug is on the list of being corrected in the future ? John

Thanks, I assumed that it was a common programming item what is applicable to every aircraft in dcs. I only tried it with F 86 Sabre. Thanks again ..

Sorry about the ruff tone of my last reply, It is just a bit disappointing that there is no real pro or against answer given. I think its a bug that when corrected makes the sim more realistic....is there somebody of the developers, that agree, and is there a plan to correct it. John

I don't know how the contrails work in game, but i know how they work in real life. In real life the contrails disappear when an engine is shut down. In game it remains beeing generated when the engine is shut down...witch is wrong. Do You know how contrals work in game, so you could give me a useful answer this time. Greetz

am I wrong:huh:

Because the nose of the aircraft is pointed into the wind when not side slipping. Why would the smoke go into an other direction then the airflow is flowing along the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. It is flowing from nose to tail in a straight line. The aircraft is feeling the airflow straight on the nose....smoke is going with the airflow, so why would it change direction ?? Only when an aircraft is sideslipping (slip ball not centered). smoke comes out in a diferend direction. If you look at the smoke in the screenshot it looks like an aircraft in a left side slip, but in reality it is flying without sideslip and level so the smoke should leave the exhaust in a straight line with the airflow. Please reply...

Oke, i now see where i could be somewhat clearer in my first post. Starting from a balanced situation, Level flight and Heading steady ,no Yaw action. What should be happening, when giving a right rudder input is: Blade angle of the lower rotor (rotating left), should increase pitch and blade angle of the top rotor (rotating clockwise) should decrease. As a result, this requires a higher torque to drive the lower rotor and a lower torque to drive the upper rotor. The increased torque added to drive the lower rotor to the left produces a reaction force that turns the fuselage to the right. The decreased torque needed to drive the top rotor to the right reduces the reaction force that forces the fuselage to the left and so, it leaves a winning torque to the Right. What i see in the sim. is that only the Blade angle animation is swapped, the rest of the visual and mechanical reaction are good. Hope this helps, John

Sorry, but can not make it any clearer then in my first threat. The only thing i can add, is a second proof that the blade angle movement of the rotor with yaw pedal movement is reversed. When you look at the coning angle of the rotors during yaw pedal movement, you will see it changing. If you then for example look at the rotor that is getting a higher coning angle and pause the sim, You wil see that that specific rotor (with the higher coning angle) is having a lower blade angle then the other rotor (which is having a lower coning angle). The rotor with the higher cone angle should have a higher blade angle, what causes more lift and thus lifts the blade(s). So the blade angle animation during rudder input is swapped in the sim. Hope this makes the observation clearer. John