Floyd1212

There was a patch a while back that changed the "neutral" position of the tail rotor blade pitch. (I'm sure you can find some discussions about it if you search a bit.) This change means there is now less pedal input needed for a given amount of thrust at the tail than there was. In addition, the SAS is providing some assistance if you pull gently into a hover. Even if you have your feet off the pedals, you can see the green mark giving it a little left pedal for you when needed.

That is for sure. Every adjustment you make to the collective should be accompanied with a slight adjustment to the pedals to compensate for the change in torque presented at the main rotor because of the new pitch of the main rotor blades. I have never tried, but I would think simulating the pedal inputs via keyboard would be very tricky. If you really want to invest some time into the Apache, and other conventional helos, I would invest in a set of good pedals with removable springs. The Ka-50 behaves differently with its twin main rotors spinning in opposite directions. You don't get the forces acting in the yaw axis when you make changes to the collective because the two rotors cancel each other out. Think of the Apache (and most conventional helos) like a car with just the left-rear wheel driven from the engine. When you accelerate and the left rear wheel starts moving the car forward, the car is going to want to pull to the right, and you would need to add some left steering input to keep it going straight. The harder you step on the gas, the more left steering it needs, and every little change in the throttle will need a slight adjustment to the wheel to compensate. The Ka-50 would be like a car with both the left-rear and right-front wheels driven, so as you accelerate they impart forces opposite of each other and the car moves in a straight line. Edit: To take that analogy of the car a bit further, Russian helos would have their right-rear wheel driven instead, so you would have to steer to the right when you accelerate to keep it moving straight. This is because their main rotor spins in the opposite direction to western helos.

Yeah, if you switch to the CPG seat while you are still getting things up and running in the back, you will have to boresight the CPG IHADSS. But if you wait long enough (or maybe if you pull up the George interface before switching to the front seat?), it will already have been boresighted.

@Dejmos I watched both tracks. For the first one, my recommendation would be to fly the instant action mission "Runway Start" which puts you out on the runway with nothing around you. Practice lifting up to about 5 feet and trying to hold a stable hover. Doing that training mission where you are in a confined space seems like a recipe for disaster. You might consider starting with a curve of 25 on your cyclic axis until you get used to how subtle the movements should be to control the aircraft. Going back to your previous question about getting a better stick, I think a lighter spring would definitely help you in making smaller, controlled movements. Also, don't spend a lot of time right at that "light on wheels" transition. As you start drifting around it's easy to catch a wheel and tip over. You will be safer in the air at 5-10 ft where you can get the feel for countering the drifting movements. You can also enable ALT Hold so you can take your focus off of the collective (mostly) and just worry about the cyclic corrections. For the second track, you had too much left pedal input for the speed and torque they have you setup for your approach. This is causing the rolling moment to the right, (and the subsequent barrel rolls). I took control and got it stabilized for the approach, and you can see where my pedal position is vs. where yours was (the magenta mark). Give that a try. Hope that helps!

I think there were some situations where George was keeping the aircraft armed. Try setting George to No Weapon, then safe the aircraft?

To maybe give you some pointers as to what you can do to get things under control. Or to rule out that you don't have something weird going on with your controls. It's not a requirement, just a way to get some constructive help from the community. There are lots of people flying the Apache in its current state without issue, but it takes a lot of practice...

I'm not going to stand in the way of you buying a quality stick, but there are lots of people flying the Apache with all kinds of joysticks. How about a track file?

Is this repeatable for you? Can you post a short track so others can watch what is going on and provide some suggestions?

In your example, George is not pressing FTR before handing over controls; rather, your macro is pressing FTR right after receiving controls. (You could also just press the "T" key on your keyboard and do this without VA, of course.) The problem is for someone without a dead zone configured for their controls, any bit of drift in the axis will register after you take controls and before you activate FTR. With my setup, this technique works fine, but I could see how it may not work for others. For those with a slight drift (or no dead zone), you could probably use something like Joystick Gremlin (or similar) to temporarily disable your inputs until FTR has been pressed. "Disconnect" joystick/pedal axis from DCS Request control pause .5 sec Press FTR "Reconnect" joystick/pedal axis to DCS

Yes, as mentioned above, he says "Lased and Stored" in some conditions, but he doesn't actually Store anything when he says that.

I recorded a short video of my technique. (Gave me an excuse to try out an overhead cam of my physical controls.)

With the current behavior of the aircraft and hold modes, what works best for me is option 3. Disable ATT Hold (you can keep ALT Hold enabled) and control the hover manually, then swing the nose around slowly, then settle at the new heading and re-enable ATT Hold. You used to be able to coax it around gently with the pedal while keeping ATT Hold enabled, but that technique doesn't seem to work as well anymore. And for me, pressing and holding FTR is asking to lose control in all axis very quickly.

Any info on how to actually accomplish this? If you can get him to use IAT, he won't drift off of targets like he tends to do.

I don’t think that is an Apache thing, but a DCS-wide issue. here’s a great thread about upgrading to higher quality chart maps, but one of the most recent posts mentions the “holes” in the Caucasus maps at certain scales.

Ah, thanks for the correction. So, I can still hope to use the FTR hold method in the future, not because there will be more rate damping in play when FTR is held, but because the helo in general will be more stable when there is no rate damping being applied? I'll keep doing what I am doing until that day comes, then reset my brain to relearn how to use FTR properly.

To me, this was the biggest compromise to make with a sprung cyclic. I never liked the idea of having to "unwind" the trim you have built up in order to get back to a zero state. Seems counter intuitive, and not at all what you do in a real helo (as you know). I came up with a solution using Joystick Gremlin to temporarily "disconnect" the signals from my cyclic to be able to use Force Trim Reset for a smooth transition back to a zero-trim state. I'll link to it here as it has been a while, and there are probably some new Apache pilots that might find it useful.

With the current progress of the module, FTR is not working as it should be. I am not a SME, but from what I gather from other posts, when you press and hold FTR the system is supposed to continue to assist in keeping the helo stable, but relax the way it fights back at your inputs so you can make minor adjustments. However, in its current state, it appears to completely disable any assist, and the aircraft gets super wobbly in all axis, all at once. You can see in the Controls Indicator for as long as you are holding FTR, the red and green marks follow your controls 1:1, and as soon as you release FTR the green mark starts to deviate again and apply inputs in an attempt to keep the aircraft at a stable heading. If the system were working as intended, you should still see the green marks working to stabilize the aircraft while FTR is held, though not as aggressively. I personally use the tap method, but not frequently. I will trim when I am in a hover (and use the ATT and ALT Hold modes as needed), then when I am ready to get moving again I won't trim again until I am in stable flight with the flight path vector where I want it, then tap FTR and relax my stick to center. When I am transitioning back to a hover, or coming in to land, I use the Force Trim Reset command to zero out my controls and manually come to a hover or land. I look forward to the day when I can hold the FTR and have it not get completely squirrely, but for now I will keep using the occasional tap method.

The PrtScrn button works for me. I guess this is the default key for taking screenshots in DCS? It will put them in your [user]\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\ScreenShots folder

So this means you aren't using FTR again for the rest of your flight? Meaning you aren't able to take your hand off the cyclic to do something in the cockpit? Have you tried holding the FTR while making your small pedal adjustments? As long as you are holding FTR, the SAS will not "fight" against your inputs.

I posted a short video in this other thread (before it got locked) demonstrating a sure-fire way to induce a snap roll. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/324117-uncommanded-catastrophic-rolls/?do=findComment&comment=5202767 With the tail rotor applying forces above the CG, giving it a lot of left pedal will create a rolling moment to the right. Combine this with a left turn, and a quick drop of the collective and you can induce a roll to the right. Be gentle with the inputs, and you can avoid situations like this. It's like the Porsche 911 of the 80's. It would only take you one time to learn not to lift while the tail is getting loose...

This is a known bug that has been discussed in other threads. https://forum.dcs.world/search/?q=tail&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=780

Here is an example of what can induce an uncommanded snap roll. This is being way to aggressive on the inputs while the aircraft is in an unbalanced state. I'm not a SME, so I can't say if this behavior is accurate, but with the current way the Apache is modeled in DCS, this will get you into trouble every time, so don't do it. Notice I have quite a bit of left stick, trying to bank left toward the "target", but the other forces at play easily overcome my left stick and I end up making a full 360 roll to the right. This is the track from the above clip as well. Induced_Roll.trk This can also happen when aggressively side-slipping while trying to keep the nose pointed on-target. For example, I'm in a hover and my CPG has a missile in the air on a T90, and the T90 fires a sniper at me. If I aggressively slip to one side or the other to dodge the sniper, while trying to keep the nose on target, the aircraft can easily be upset and roll over.

Do you have any examples of this? I don't think I have seen anyone saying they are just flying forward in a straight line and the helo suddenly rolls on them for no reason.

This must be a configuration issue local to your machine. When I run your track, the George UI shows up in the proper locations for me. I'm running 3440x1440 on my main monitor, with additional displays below my main one for exports. (3440x2040 combined) You will also notice that other aspects of your cockpit environment are not carried over in the track, like the default zoom setting. And you can see I have centered my CPG's default view on the TEDAC, so when I replay your track, I still get my view settings. Are you running multiple monitors?

I think calling the changes since the last OB patch "dramatic" is being a bit over-dramatic. Go watch the video I posted further up on this page. Toward the end I replay a track recorded in the previous OB version, and in the current OB version the helo lifts up and starts to drift back and to the left. It doesn't suddenly roll over on to its side. It would appear you don't need as much left and aft stick when you pick up in the latest build. This is also confirmed when I pick up for the first time after patching and she wants to slip left because I was giving it the same left stick I was used to. The changes in the behavior of the aircraft are subtle, but they are there. It might not have been a change to the " core flight model" as ED discussed on page 3 of this thread, but to say the changes make it impossible to fly now (as others have implied) is a bit much. Post a track of what you are experiencing and let the community try to help figure out what's going on.