Boneski

To answer the original question about training. In Viper school and others you learn to max perform the Jet.. Slow Speed, High Speed, Your Advantage, Your Disadvantage and much more. The Motto is drive the fight. at least it was in 96' :) You learn what the other guy can do as well. You learn where he can kill you and how not to put yourself onto his plate. You do these things by learning the jet's operational envelop. Russian airframes are amazing when it comes to aerodynamics. They could do amazing things with very little computer assisted processing power. The slow speed stability you see in regards to the Russian airframe is just a notching up of what was already there but now backed up with computer processing power, improvements and modifications. Combat training much like any Air force is no different. They have learned to expand the envelope. So it's more about that then maneuver / counter maneuvers Systems will dictate the type of fight... but you must train for every possibility. Hope that helps

Fella's chill out.... As it's constantly pointed out... most of you don't know much about what it's like to operate a military weapons platform. Make no mistake… there is a lot of knowledge about stuff share on gaming boards. But most of it has nothing to do with facts about combat aviation. Unless you have the hours in the jet… you just don’t know. Reading public data and watching TV shows ain’t gonna cut it Some of you guys keep talking about realism as if you know what it's all about. To be sure, there is so much more to it then adding a variable to the game’s wind model. The weather model in Lock ON seems pretty cool. It meets the needs of the game. SURE anything could be improved on. There is nothing wrong with improvement and innovation. This is something that this development teams keeps doing with every product release. From reading about the product…MS Flight Sim games seem to get weather data imported into it to give the user the real-time conditions for the area the player is flying in. It has nothing to do with making the game more realistic. It's just a function of what the game models. In this case the game has the extra cpu cycles to translate the weather data. Is it realistic? No. Does it add Realism? No. Does it affect playability? No. If you guys want gust added to the game and if the developers want gusting winds then maybe they will add them. But it will not have a thing to do with this fantastic fantasy some of you guy have with this concept call realism. Remember, if you are sitting behind a desk pushing keys with one hand and marveling at how your pc is rendering the artwork on your screen... It ain't about realism. Some one asked why do you use joysticks… it’s simple because the workload to interface that game would be much harder then need be. There seems to be a camp of people that think HARD is real. That idea is a result of the often seen lack of understanding about what it’s like. And that’s fine. A game forum is not a classroom so it’s not anyone’s job to teach you to think any different. The point of questioning if gust are needed and if they would ever pose a problem to the player if the gust get near the limits is pretty simple. You don't want it to affect playability making the game too hard for players to enjoy. Look, flying while looking at a screen and pushing a bunch of keys and clicking a mouse makes things hard enough. Thank goodness for the pause key, something that you can't do in the air. But more correctly... something that you don't need to do in the air. Up there your hours of training and academics help you stay ahead of the aircraft when the unexpected happens.... The workload on a sim can be much harder then the workload in some cockpits. With flying... it’s a seat of your pants feel. You can't feel with a desktop sim. So by trying to add everything that might happen in the air to a game may effect how the user enjoys the game. Where these products like Black Shark will shine the most is that they will have checklist items and procedures. Engine management, systems management and so one. This will be a great improvement from the past products where there was a lot of system mechanization. From the reading and the videos one can clearly see how different this game is going to be. The flying part is just that. It’s part of the game. Why make it harder then it needs to be. It is clear that these guys could model storm force winds as well as other MET items that would not allow you to stay aloft. But why waste the CPU cycles? This game should be fun; not so hard that user will just put it on the shelf or even worst…. as they read post from you hardcore heads out there whining about how you don’t like XYZ… and how this and that is not real... so much whining that they will not even buy it. This product is an amazing step forward for this product line… the past products have been fun…. this should not be any different.

It seems sorta pointless to add this to the weather. Will the guest ever exceed the aircrafts operational limits? If not then the normal Lock On wind model is just fine.

It would be great to go back to that OS style UI. It was clean and simple. But most gamers what their games to look like games and not a computer running the Base OS. Which is too bad.

A very neat ship. Got to see it in operation, it's a pretty impressive machine. As for it being added to the game... that would be cool to see. It does not have to have or need to have a true physics model. The AI programming be fudged so it looks like it's doing what it has to do. As for systems... you will never see a game come close to containing any accurate information about weps or systems. So no worries. They should go for it.

Easy Brother Easy.... Don't need the heat and don't need another pilot to tell me about gravity. ;> As for the limiter... dude the joystick in your hand! Just look on a Thrustmaster users group and you will see post about people breaking their sticks while playing flight games.... That has nothing to do with flying and jet to it's limits... How did you draw from this a chat about real flying???? Also it's not that serious man. You are getting all hyped up over a different point of view over a silly game... Face it, this user does not agree with you... does that drive you nuts? There is nothing wrong with not agreeing with you is there? Your passion for this subject is way hotter then needs be... If there was some sort of personal attack against you then please forgive. That was not the intent! As a user of the game... and a user that uses the game in a very correct manner... It has it's issue but nothing that is so wrong that would cause a headache like you seem to have. Its not wrong... it is program... it is doing what it was programed to do. To this user it seem okay. Never had a problem with the G onset. Clearly your skills are high when it comes to verbal combat and but maybe if you are having issues with this part of the game, you should try improving your skills when it comes to trying to have fun with a computer game that cost you $39 and some change! So that you will not be upset... GG the great God of G-Forces you are correct. The game is wrong. You will never be challenge on that subject ever again. Forgive tho! You feel better now?

Just to add... if you want to simulate the pilot (which means you the guy with the joy stick in your hand) not the VR guy in the Jet... but you using a human interface... Developers could add a key press that you could hit to simulate you doing your AGSM. You will get a bar that pops up on the screen that trends toward G-Loc. You would have to rapidly hit the anti G key to simulate the strain. To ensure that the user could not program this on the HOTAS, The user will have to follow the visual screen cues which will show the cadence for the proper AGSM for that G situation. The cuing will change based on many factors so you can't just have a programed repeater key programed on on your HOTAS. Or if you want to get fancy... some smart guy can develop a USB device that can be inserted up the backend and you have to squeeze your butt to simulate G strain... well that would not be a simulation... that would be too much like real life. LOL! A Joke people... A joke! But you get the point! Now you the player are a direct factor in the black out model.

Jumping into the fight here... Only to say if you have not felt what High Gs feel like then, well to talk about the effect on your body is pointless.... Also there are a lot of pages to this thread not all of the pages have been read.... Sorry if this has already been said. But Lock On does a pretty good job with the G model... meaning you put G on... and abuse the limiters, Single eyebrow the stick! Slam the throttle to the stops! Turn, dive and drive the fight all over the virtual sky, using all the virtual fuel and not worrying about a thing… well… you black out... and then the onset model kicks in... and boom… VR nap time! It seems about right... Your little virtual pilot guy has been turned into a washcloth! And you think Bah! The G model is wrong because of this and that… Not so fast Chuck! The problem with Lock On is the way people play Lock On. They don't play it like they are flying a sim that models MODERN AIR COMBAT. They play it like they are flying over powered SW Camels... But to each his own... No need to talk about G strain, G suits and Posi flow oxygen being pumped into your chest! It’s not going to matter. It can’t truly be simulated nor should the developers try… How can you build a model to account for some pretty bad flying and combat tactics. People post track files of 15 min long single engagement dogfights... there is no way in Hell that's going to happen in real life… at least not they way they are presented... But you are not playing Lock On to train as a combat fighter pilot. You are playing it for fun so that has to be factored in. But wow… the stuff you see from people that claim to know what it’s all about is classic! In the air, training mission fight times vary of course. If it gets stale or dangerous you knock it off and reset, But to burn all your fuel and abuse your body like you see people doing in the sim is classic proof that no matter how good the game is… it has nothing that you can compare to real life outside of systems and some simulated visuals. The flying part… well… Just have fun, because pulling 9 G for 14 secs while trying to get the nose pointed at an Eagle zooming on you is a son of a b!tch!!

will do

hmmm I will get a pair in a few weeks and let u know what I find out.

Your sure about that... From the Site: Support for up to 1024x768 VGA video formats

Amazing! :pilotfly: The creativity in the gaming community is just amazing!

Just as a side note.... A 9 shot is often followed by a call to check Re-heat if your buddy is also high aspect. So IR's can go "Kill happy" as well.

how did u guys get the hand sigs to work? as well as a player triggered shockwave?

Looks great!

You sure it's not this stuff? Spray on Grass... The conerstone of any nutritious lawn!

sweet!

This is Ridiculous!

Great pic! A Tornado Roaring through a trailer park... you guys can fill in the rest... www.airliners.net/photos/photos/7/7/5/1220577.jpg

Just Looking Forward.

Dead on! The developer sets the stage. Also, regarding systems...the use will direct the design. Meaning that if side x uses liquid fuel missiles they may fly faster and be more poweful but they will be heavy so the physics model will have to work things out between them and soild rocket units. Each side will have advantages... Ground targets will be truly harden targets. The many years and lessons learned from wars before have created targets that are harder to kill. A lot will be the same... a lot will not be the same.. but Newton's laws will be constant. Sams and defense nets that might not kill the attacker but render it's weapon systems useless due to the attack on the attack craft's data processing. Maybe even damaging the jet's systems to the point that flight control is lost or degraded without a shot being fired. Units like jammers and decoys not only work like they do today but are must in a strike package and can provide a bubble type cover for attackers.

Being more of a forward thinker one starts to wonder if the sim community is ready to move past Teen fighters, Stealth, Runways and Airbases... Would the hardcore flight sim crowed support a hardcore flight sim with a bent toward the future? Now, before anyone points about the Ace Combat series of games and Space sims like iWar... This is not the purpose of this post. Take what's considered hardcore and scale it up a few years forward... Lets pick a number like 55 years (A full generation of Tech upgrades and innovations). MiGs SUs and 22s (Sounds like a pimp movie) are old but still around in service along with Major Upgraded versions like the F-22E Strike Raptor and The Su-49 Flanker 2. They are the part of their nation's Atmospheric Air force. And they would be systems heavy like Lock On, Janes and Falcon. The Next Gen Fighters are (LEO - Low Earth Orbit) Fighter/Bombers. Those are part space-craft but mostly Aircraft. Meaning they need wings and they operate at the very edge of Earth’s gravity. So they use RCS and Thrust Vectoring. But they are not pure space ships. Technology represented in the game: Lighter then air refueling (Like in the Movie Stealth) HACT High Alt Cargo Transports SATKILL Satellite Attack and Kill Mission. Maybe even lighter then air Carriers. Would the community support something like that? Or would it be too much whiz bang for the hardcore crowd? (When the live action Robotech Film hits... opinions maybe swayed) This product will be about what's on the drawing board right now in many of the design bureaus and Labs around the world. The Future of Air and Space combat. Just a thought…

Revolution 909 and Around the World are two of the hottest tracks ever!

It would be nice to have UCAVS Have the program Launch 10 or so over a battlefield and the player could switch between them and engage, track(Recon) and designate targets for other players or AI. That would be very cool.

It would be nice to have UCAVS on this list. Have the program Launch 10 or so over a battlefield and the player could switch between them and engage, track(Recon) and designate targets for other players or AI. That would be very cool.