Anatoli-Kagari9

Found it! "Kommandogerät"

If you're not using a FFB controller, make sure you untick FF in one of the configuration menus, I don't recall exactly which one though :-/ I always have to trim the Spitfire IX in DCS nose heavy, or push the stick inflight ... and even looking at the tail you'll clearly see, just like in many real world youtubes, the elevator slightly displaced down...

Indeed, I had that one, and really liked it. Even ground handling in that add-on is probably the best I found regarding models of the Bf 109 in various sims... But that's not really a surprise - Bernt Stolle is a REFERENCE in fdms for FSX... The only aspect that was a bit different from how I see it implemented in other sims is the auto prop pitch controller ... ( don't recall the correct German designation ... one of those typical longish German words... )

:thumbup:

Indeed! Thx mkiii :thumbup:

:thumbup: but can still be related to forces not yet having been modelled on the rudder.

Ron, the only problem with the Spitfire IX in DCS in it's present pre-release / beta version is the absence of proper rudder feedback forces with dynamic pressure. Using good "curves" for pitch and roll, as well as yaw, can help quite a lot. It's a charming model, but of course we can't really compare these models to anything for MSFS / P3D, even A2A stuff - no way they're even by far comparable, unless we take systems modelling into consideration, which A2A does great too... The P51 in DCS behaves just as we can glimpse from videos, such as, for instance this one: You don't see any "fighting with the controls" or huge rudder inputs, both on takeoff and during approach & landing.... Regarding the Spitfire, sometime ago I posted this link to a video showing a flight, including takeoff and landing, on a Spitfire: Watch the perspective towards the tail, starting 02:40, and then the landing, and see the dancing on the rudder - you can also listen to the brakes being applied... I am yet to find so close a resemblance in a simulated Spitfire, in ANY sim I have used, to what we get with this DCS module Ron...

It's called "tricking the fdm cycle" :-) I wouldn't do that irl, not even in my lazy gliders....

Just came to my mind if you have mistakenly set the brakes axis and made it inverted, so that when you load the aircraft brake is applied when you think your releasing it ? I don't use an axis for the brake in the Spitfire, but rather my joystick button 1 ( usually the one I pick for guns ), because it's the closer I can get to the real thing in my TS 16000. Also are you setting the elevator trim to neutral ( or just one mark above it ... ) ? The rudder trim should also be set clockwise, at least a quarter turn. Smoothly but promptly add power.

And... DCS is the only sim I presently use that allows for customized settings of all controls for each aircraft, instead of throwing generic configurations to all models... It's a very handy and effective feature. I have different curves for each of the control axis and each different ww2 module.

Well, if the choice was on me, unless I was a real P51d fan, I would pick a different ww2 module - either the 2 available Axis aircraft, or the mighty Spitfire, because when you install the DCS 2.1.1 Open Alpha you already get a TF-51d which you can use in cargo and reconnaissance flights. The P51d is pretty much the same, less the armament...

mentioned in: [...]\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World 2 OpenAlpha\Mods\aircraft\Bf-109K-4\FM\FMOptions.lua at: aileronTrimTab = -0.045 / 0.11 elevatorTrimTab = 0.0 --- Have tried between 0.05 (~2.9º) and 0.5 ( ~28.6º - irrealistic! ) so far rudderTrimTab = 0.0 / 0.25 which I assume is in Radians, appears to be "operational" again ( ? )... I tried it with values of up to 0.5, and while I still have to experiment further, it felt like having some effect...

It's very easy to be tricked by our sensorial input... Then, some aircraft pitch down, while most pitch up, on flap deployment... What I really like to see is that a flight simulator tries, within what is possible for the available computing power, to replicate as close to real as possible all of these effects, preferably without any sort of "scripted" effects.... DCS is doing a great job for sure. Can it get better ? Of course it can.... and will most probably because the Spitfire is still in EA.

Sometime ago in a thread I can't find right now, Yo-Yo gave users the choice among various possible implementations of downwash effects on pitch... There choice was to force the pilot to actually push / pull the stick accordingly like irl for each aircraft, and this is achieved both in FF and non-FF controllers by displacing the virtual stick. Presently the displacement is probably a bit overdone, I really don't know, because what I read is that there was just a very slight trimmed AoA variation due to flap deployment. There are a worth of sources from here: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-V.html including the NACA report for the VA variant: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/NACA-Spitfire-V-Flying.pdf ... where it is mentioned starting on page 5 "Longitudinal Stability and Control"... (P.S.: just found you can skip to page 11, Trim change due to power and flaps... ) In another sim I used the Vb wasn't so "intense" in this effect when flaps are deployed / retracted inflight. Regarding the use of right stick deflection I also can't see it mentioned other than in an article, and in youtubes. It can actually be observed in some cockpit footage at youtube, during takeoff, but as Yo-Yo once pointed out, it is useless at the beginning of the takeoff run since the ailerons will take some good "q" to become alive... It can be used in anticipation though, because near the end of the takeoff run, specially at higher power settings, rudder trim only can be unsufficient ( ? )

The only situation in which flap retraction should occur (inflight) in the Spitfire AFAIK should be on a go-around, since the aircraft is supposed to takeoff with flaps up, and the flaps should only be used for approach & ldg... Then when deployed, due to the effect of the deflected downwash on the tail, there is a pitching ( down ) moment that the pilot can compensate by pulling the stick, and in DCS is modelled, if no input is applied, as a short advance of the stick. Correspondingly, if inflight with the flaps deployed, they are retracted, the change of the downwash angle and associated effect of the HS and elevator will cause a pitching up tendency, with the stick if not held in place, tending to move back a bit, thus causing that "ballooning" sensation... You can easily track these effects on the elevator by enabling "Control Visualization" with R-CTRL ENTER

Ok, thx for the hint lemoen. But I did check under "programs & features" and did not find MS VC++ 2017... Anyway I may well have skipped it in my search ...

Guys, sorry for bringing this topic here, because I am sure I've seen it a few times before, but really never paid attention to it because I was not experiencing such delays, yet, yesterday after reinstalling DCS World 2 Open Alpha, after a cleanup of my win 10 system, I started the simulator, loaded the Spitfire default takeoff quick mission, and the progress bar stopped more or less 50% along the way, and was staying there for quite a while - minutes! It eventually started, but I wanted to find out what was causing it. I reminded something about MS VC++ 2017 runtime, so I checked and it wasn't listed in my programs list, so, I fetched and installed the 64 bit version and Voilà !!!! DCS started behaving as usual, with normal load times for all missions. Just wanted to share this, because it may help other users who too :-)

Looks wonderful! BTW, where are those shots by Matt ?

"E pur si muove".... In this case, the elevator trim tab, not adjustable in this game, like both the rudder and aileron trim tabs can, but used IRL for some good reason ...

Well, it's still in Early ( beta ) release, so additional fine tuning will certainly come before the final release. The rudder authority with increasing dynamic pressure is yet another aspect that will eventually get fine tuned too.

Used to happen in the K-4 too, when it was initially released... Must have something to do with the modelling of damping on the tailwheel ( ? ) ... and yes, it looks weird the way it is now...

Thx again Fenrir, I will only add that, indeed, this DCS Spitfire Mark IX must be unique. I guess I will never be able to get the chance to fly in a real Spitfire, but it's good to know that this virtual world that attractcs me so much provides, thx to DCS, the closest we can get to reality :-)

Manual pitch for landings set at 11:30

I wonder what was your perception of power changes / torque effects infight. Is it noticeable specially at lower speeds ? How about the pitching down tendency due to flap deployment ?

Yeah! I noticed that too, but I didn't ask because I thought the video had not been recorded by Yo-Yo himself ?