WinterH

Shafrir 1, 2, and then continues as the Pyton family from 3 to 5. Shafrir 1 was apparently a reaaaly bad missile, mostly made to reduce foreign dependency, but the rest of the family are very scary missiles.

It's cool for me in the same way. Cold War coolness, potent strike aircraft for it's time, I also like Soviet/Russian aircraft, and DCS has forever been lacking a full fidelity Russian strike aircraft. Even as an FC3 aircraft, I really like Su-25, and 17/22 are like 25 but faster, and in some ways it offer more toys to play with like TV guided Kh-29T and SEAD stuffs. Su-25T can also do those of course, but I personally find the fitter more alluring.

I'd be surprised if MiG-17 doesn't have a go at at least top 10 gun kills in said period too.

Su-17M4 and Su-22M4 are so similar, it's almost certain we won't have two studios release two modules of these. Like others said, these aren't signed with ED as a licensed 3rd party module. It's pretty clearly what both OctopusG and Magnitude 3 intend to do, but they didn't take it to ED yet. SVKSniper's effort, if we follow the breadcrumbs, seems to be in cooperation with Mag3, but that's not confirmed either. SVKSniper said he'll continue modeling it, what may come. But in the end it might mean that without 3rd party programmer support his effort may end up as just a pretty model. Long in short, we are likely, eventually getting a Su-17/22 of M4 variant, from one party or other, but it isn't official yet, and will likely take quite a bit time to come. While this is the aircraft I'm most excited to have in DCS together with the F-4E, I have to say that it's too early worry about/hype for. So, I'd say don't worry about it, until the time we get some news and ED awarding license to one party or other, or maybe even to a cooperative effort between the two.

Thankfully you're not

Apparently they've even put some Kh-29s on their Mirage F1s, and made that work. To think in hopefully foreseeable future we can have Su-22, MiG-23, Mirage F1 all together! :)) Getting closer to my dream of mid-late Cold War aviation heaven in DCS, one module at a time :))

That seems to be the opposite of the impression I got about them over years of reading migs but if that is indeed the case, I may become slightly interested in them. But can't quite say convinced just yet. It still has the bad rear visibility from last gen, but without additional fuel and avionics, most versions without a gun, where it gets the gun it is in an ugly, draggy, tacked on pod with not much ammo (not that F-13 has ammo, it has even less I'll admit), and it doesn't have the really high thrust engines from the last gen, especially the Bis. People like to throw shade at the Bis as heavy etc, but has the thrust to make up for it, especially down low with ChR mode where it pretty much goes almost 4th gen level of TWR (that'll, most likely write the engine off, but hey! :P), as well addition of a few aero refinements like strakes to provide better high AoA handling. F and/or F-13 is on the other hand, is the sleekest, has the best canopy, and the lightest by some margin, and is the first after all! To me, PF generation doesn't offer anything interesting aside from maybe historical relevance to some conflicts (most famous of which is far from being fleshed out enough to be representable in DCS anyway). As far as I'm concerned, it is the "worst of both worlds" and the ugly middle child of 21 lineage. Emphasis on ugly part too, because in addition to the metaphorical use of the word ugly there, I also tend to think that it has neither the clean gracefulness of F series, nor the muscle-car coolness of M series aesthetically

PF/PFM would be a pass for me. Never liked that gen of 21, and does't have the cool factor and famed handling of F-13 to redeem itself. R,MF, etc: Bis but slightly worse, so aside from (non existent) historical lineups I don't see their point. F-13: yaaay, TV-screens: yaaay, at least in case of the MiG :D, late F-7/J-7 with single piece windscreen and double delta wings: super yaaay

Very interesting logic, truely wonder how you've arrived at it. Funnily however, while it includes aircraft from everywhere, most of my favorite aircraft tends to be Russian, DCS or otherwise. If you're looking for a Russian cockpit mod however, I'd hazard to say that English forum may not quite be the venue for this venture. Just saying Had you read my earlier post, you would have seen that I've said that I can read Cyrillic, just don't understand what I read, for the most part. Moreover, in the same post, I've said that while I'm definitely NOT against it, I find inclusion of English cockpits neither mandatory to include, nor deal-breaking for non MFD aircraft when they aren't available. It most definitely does not stop being a simulator when the things are represented in a different language as long as they work exactly the same, as expected, but I have a feeling that keeping at this discussion would be about as fruitful as having two zealots debate intricacies and pros/cons of their respective religions, so I'll rest my case Edit: Also, wouldn't it be nice if we could go back to discussing the Su-17/22. Which, funnily, happens to be one of the aircraft I'm looking forward to the most in DCS. Weird huh? Something must be wrong somewhere Re-edit: also, this seems to have gotten lost in conversation, I very much mean that English cockpits, not that important, but isn't evil either, ONLY IN ADDITION TO THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE COCKPIT. So, maybe you all got me wrong and thought that that I have argued "no original language, yes English" even though it was the exact opposite of what I was trying to say in the original post.

Because it changes literally everything. Pages and pages of MFD content, on screen labels, sub pages. All mainly text based, and no tooltips either. Arguably they too can be memorized, but a lot harder and less intuitive there. So yeah, if there's an ancient PC or a glorified tablet is involved, I'd rather it be in a language I can understand

I mean, and ADI is an ADI, an HSI is an HSI, a speedo is a speedo... It isn't that hard to memorize rough placement of switch groups, and they have tooltips in EN anyway. I've used Russian aircraft in sims for years without that much of an issue. Actually, as a side effect, at some point, I've found that I could spontaneously read Cyrillic not that I understand what I read, but hey! At least I can read it now Don't get me wrong, it is nice to have it, and these days, due to spending less time on DCS sadly, I tend to use English cockpit when learning, where available, and switch to Russian after getting comfy enough in operating the type. But I still don't see it as an essential feature to have in the beginning of a module's life. When MFDs are involved, I do understand and agree with requirement for an English cockpit though. But it isn't like we are likely to get anything with MFDs but not in English. That said I don't see how EN cockpit would be so egregiously unrealistic and a job for modders either. It is nice to have eventually.

Afaik that one doesn't require/use Vjuga that's why I didn't mention it there. Was available on earlier versions but I'm not 100% sure M4 can still use it. Probably does, I hope it does TBH.

The one on the M4 is almost the same as on the Su-25, it's called Klyon. There may be slight sub-variant differences between that on the 17 and 25, but they are overall the same designator/rangefinder combination. This makes it very similar to the 25 in using unguided bombs and rockets too afaik, so should be pretty accurate with them. It does use a pod for another thing though, it needs a pod named Vjuga for doing SEAD with Kh-25MP and Kh-58 missiles.

It is a give and take between Su-17M4 and MiG-27K. Thus, I'd really love to get them both eventually. Su-17 can carry a lot more at a time, and afaik it has bigger sticks for doing SEAD like Kh-28 and Kh-58, as opposed to Kh-25MP for the MiG. However, the TV screen in its cockpit can only work with Kh-29T TV guided missile, as the aircraft itself doesn't really have an optical system. For using laser guided missiles, it is the same as in the Su-25, with the Klyon laser designator/rangefinder in the nose, aiming with the pipper on the gunsight. MiG-27 however, would have a HUD rather than an old fashioned gunsight as on the Su-17. Also, MiG-27K would have the Kaira system, which is kind of like an older Shkval: a TV camera slaved to a laser designator/rangefinder. Using it, it can utilize missiles, especially the laser guided ones better/easier. Also, while not entirely sure, I believe it can carry/self designate KAB-500L Soviet LGBs. So they are both more/less capable compared to each other in different ways.

New features we know of so far: - Inclusion of a missile approach warning system - Addition of another set of pylons exclusively for twin Igla racks - More in depth modeling of some systems, for example INS will get drift now, which will increase/decrease according to how long an alignment option was chosen when starting the helo up. NAV fixes will also be possible to correct this drift.

- Every aircraft other than Meh-16 :p. - Syria and Channel maps - Combined arms - Garmin, its 3s in cockpit versions for Mi-8 and L-39. Also, A-4E which is basically like a free module rather than a mod at this point. Don't do campaigns myself.

Considering that even an early MiG-29 is on cards for ED, no. Besides upcoming MiG-23MLA isn't too much older, and AFAIK the Mi-24P we have is in use even today among (a lot) more advanced helos/variants.

Wow ladies and gentlemen... We're firmly into the territory of "unhinged" at this point with the opinions Intellectual theft? Sigh...

That is interesting, because they have (while admitedly on the simpler side) one of the most well done 3rd party modules ever in I-16. Seems like most people just flat out forget that module exists sadly. They are a small team, but just a 3d modeler suggestion does not check out compared to what they have already achieved so far. And frankly, my personal subjective take is, based on my experience between modules from each, I prefer to get Su-17 from OctopusG. Moreover, Mag3 has: - Corsair to release/finish - MiG-21 to rework parts of at the very least - F-8J to release/finish While OctopusG has been far from being the fastest developer, neither is the Mag3, and to me it looks like we are more likely to get it sooner from OctopusG. Su-17M4 is, together with F-4E, at the top spot of things I want in DCS, by a strong margin. While it is incredibly sad for loving work, sweat, blood, and tears of SVKSniper potentially ending up being for nought, and I'd be more than a little miffed in his shoes, expecting ED to do this or that about the situation is just weird. Especially if ED didn't yet grant a contract to either for Su-17 yet. In the end, I want a quality Su-17M4 in DCS, and as long as that happens, I'm happy, as an end user it doesn't matter too much for me, from whence it arrives. We don't know if OctopusG's Su-17 tease is really for DCS of course, but let's be honest, it is more likely to be so than not. We also don't know whether either company officially signed with ED for a Su-17 module contract, which doesn't seem to be the case, but that's just a gut feeling. Either way, there may perhaps be a potential for SVKSniper and OctopusG to work something out for at least the external model if it suits both parties. Finally, all of us here, including those of us who claim to get facts straight, potentially including myself, are really only speculating at this point. Let us remember that neither Mag3, nor OctopusG so far had anything other than teasing about this aircraft. Let's wait for more concrete news from either to materialize.

That one I believe as well, at least for now

(The X-Files theme goes here)

From what I remember, it's like Dragon said above: you still drop the bomb the way you would drop any iron bomb, no cues from the pod. Later Pave Tack, together with DMAS can provide cues afaik, but that's not related to the first variant we'll get.

80s maybe up to early 90s is the ideal fit to go with. Goes hand in hand with our Hind, and gives it a blufor counterpart. Don't know whether I prefer it to be a F or W, would be happy with both, would even eventually get both if existed as separate. Single engine Cobra has the most commonality with the Huey we have, thus, if ED develops it, there'd be a base to go from probably. It is also the most commonly operated type worldwide with involvement in many conflicts. In the US service, Desert Storm was its last operational use afaik. Off the top of my head, some countries operates/operated it or close enough variants include Israel, Japan, Turkey, Iran, all of which can be relevant to at least one or more map we have. Late 80s or 90s, an upgrade gave them C NITE upgrade, enabling the telescopic sight to work in night and low light conditions. Twin engine W was operated by fewer counties, but with Taiwan, Turkey, and in the shape of older J variant the Iran did/does operate it anyway. It would give DCS a marines helo, to operate nicely from Tarawa alongside Harriers for example. It also has a slightly larger arsenal to choose from: Zunis in addition to Hydras for example. Also, I think, Sidewinders and Sidearms. Don't know if they got night capability in that time frame, but I personally don't think it's necessary anyway. We have Apache for that. A late W or Z would be a huge shame imo. We already have Longbow Apache. These older Cobras would be a different experience, unlike those later Cobras, and they would flesh out the Cold War, best option for DCS to flesh out really. And, as said above, would go perfectly as a counterpart to Hind.

I personally haven't seen much in the docs I have about the radar update, but it really seem like a minor upgrade to APQ-120. For look down capability you'll need to wait for the Navy F-4s I think.

It replaces some old analogue navigation and bombing computers with a single digital unit that is more advanced in many way, and can store up to 99 waypoints if I recall correctly. Gets CCIP bombing modes thanks to these systems as well, among a few different controls in the cockpit. DMAS jets also have TISEO on the left wing root, an identification long range TV camera system in a way similar to TCS on Tomcat. Also the radar is upgraded slightly, but it doesn't seem like a very substantial update for it. AFAIK, no, even the early variant we get first should be Maverick capable. And I seem to recall that being the case from reading the manuals too. There is a (kinda finicky to program/use) bombing computer with quite a few delivery modes on pre-DMAS F-4Es too, and the one we are to get is, AFAIK, one with up to 1974 upgrades, and is one of the later variants before the DMAS. It is sort of like the one in A-4E, but more complicated. How accurate it is though, we'll have to see and explore I do vaguely remember some anectodes that pilots usually opted bombing manually. Depending on the exact timeframe for the DMAS bird we get, it can potentially have GBU-15 (mid 80s if I recall correctly), as well as its datalink pod. Heatblur said they are also looking into hopefully giving it the Pave Tack pod. GBU-15 is a TV guided bomb that you can either drop in a fire and forget fashion if the seeker can acquire the intended target before the launch, or can guide post launch in a "man in the loop" fashion with the datalink pod. It replaces the earlier GBU-8, which had no man in the loop capability, and its seeker could really only acquire a target from uncomfortably close. Pave Tack is a rather gigantic targeting pod that can be mounted either one of the "heavy" wing pylons, or the centerline. Unlike the Pave Spike that should be available on the earlier version, this pod is more sophisticated with some area tracking capability, FLIR, and night operation. It gets more cueing options too, some working with ARN-101/DMAS system to interface with navigation data and/or other sensors, almost as we are accustomed to from more modern aircraft with modern pods we have. Overall, pre-DMAS bird isn't exactly a Vietnam-only bird, but can be that with some payload restriction, or can represent both USAF and international post-war service beautifully. DMAS on the other hand, is the more strike optimized bird used by USAF and some others during the 80s and up. Things both have in common: - Slats - AIM-9J and Ps (whether they got L/M seems contentious, I personally don't remember seeing them being mentioned for E in the docs I have) - AIM-7E-2 and F - Self lasing with their respective (old-school) TGPs to drop GBU-12 and GBU-10 LGBs. - AGM-45 Shrike anti-radar missiles (that should be rather adventurous :P) - AGM-65 Mavericks, I believe up to D, but perhaps it'll be up to D for DMAS bird. Fairly sure I did see Ds being mentioned for pre DMAS birds too, but been a while I've read the stuff.