Enduro14

I would like this venture also!!

Yup welcome to the CLub!!!

I absolutely cant wait for the WW2 normandy and new damage model. Being stationed in germany and having this coming hopefully in the next few months, ive been planning some museum visits over here in the mean time. Have been to Normandy a few years ago may go again this late winter/Spring. Cant believe its taken me this long to get into the Tail Draggers... everything i have seen in this forum Normandy is going to be amazing!

Yup kind of silly on damage model

Very nice! Great work

that is the million dollar question, i would assume it will be imported along with the new damage model???? LOL that schiessfibel.pdf is quite hilarious much better than modern military manuals....

ill be honest i dont notice and its not an issue for me in VR....

Ok thank you, so that is another reason for the round being less effective at range. so this thread seems to somewhat answer what we are all looking at? As Rel4y provided great details and an answer from Yo-Yo https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2843185 So with that my questions i personally have are this 1. is environmental factors incorporated in the ballistics in DCS? 2. What was the real world ttp in using the sight in the 109 with the mk-108 aka proper mil hold?

thanks for the stats!! question on the twist rate, im more familiar with something like 1/10 1 twist for 10 inches or whatever factor what is it for the mk108, im not understanding twist rate is 630mm?

True.. considering we are constantly spit balling the lead required to hit tgt and if the sight currently has no good zero point it certainly could be a problem. Things i would be interested to know from the real world pilots or those much smarter than me, with the sight in the 109 i assume... the sight is bore sighted and or zeroed for the MG's. If that is the case what is the MIL hold for the mk-108? So if at the insert perfect range you hold dead center for MG's your aim point for the MK-108 would be say at the 10 mil line low for example. So in simpler terms what is the mil hold over for the mk-108, or is it essentially the same hold on the sight but just at closer range? Time for me to RTFM lol

I agree with you especially considering the tgt they where going after, B-17, So essentially it would be a difference of lets round it up to 11 inches at 400m from the dcs of 500m/s to real world stats of 540m/s . So talking about SMOA, shooters minute of angle 11 inches at 400m is just under 3moa of difference. This in my world would not be acceptable but assuming air to air its a much broader shot group they are looking for i would say ok. One thing i am interested in is if pressures in dcs actually effect the rounds ballistics?

the actual barrel length of the weapon and then the twist rate, this weapon really reminds me of our mk-19 in a way. Very low velocity and your basically lobbing rounds in on tgt so its intriguing to me that their was a downward compensation in the barrel in the ME/BF-109. But then again maybe it makes sense since the aoa at altitude and engaging high altitude bombers makes sense??? so if you look at this http://www.luft46.com/images/mk108-3.gif look at the side view left, from the tip of the round in chamber need the length from that tip to end of barrel. Im assuming it has to have some sort of barrel twists also.. so is 23 inch barrel correct? Via the Lua's does it annotate anywhere this sort of specifications? 23 inch barrel is what i have found for the real world mk108 have not seen anything in reference to rifling/twist rate

Thats very interesting.... ED, YO-YO any input on that?? PS does somebody have the barrel length and twist rate of the specific Cannon that is in the 109? so found this on a historic sight "MK 108 a low muzzle velocity of 500-540 meters (1640-1770 feet) per second. The maximum rate of fire was 650 rounds per minute". This is a very low muzzle velocity due to its very short barrel length, still havent found the dimensions yet. http://www.luft46.com/armament/mk108.html the rounds? http://www.eeoda.de/2008/0804_FB1_MunMK108.pdf

Ya i was going to say that was a crazy low bc and would never want to shoot that personally LOL. .852 sounds like what i would expect. Ok what i will do tomorrow i will build the bullet in my Kestrel in both the g1 and g7 scale and see what we get for fun.

I can use the BC you just came up with or a custom one aka it has the ability to build cutomized bullet profiles no matter what the size. Biggest thing i would need to know is this round more suited for a BC scale in G7 or some other scale. So ya we can use just what a standard ballistic calculator outputs and or what the old german data is. That only takes you so far, that is a base as you know. So i just know from real world stuff what a calculator says without real world environmentals doesnt get you on tgt, so im curious how the AIR to AIR guys did this stuff. So this leads me to this Does DCS take in effect the altitude and enviromentals for the ballistics? If not then i can see a simple comparison to the base charts is all we need then...?

will do unfortunately it will have to wait till tomorrow afternoon Germany time. http://www.bergerbullets.com/a-better-ballistic-coefficient/ this another good little article to help understand some of the Terms thrown out in this thread A question for those with maybe real world combat aircraft experience and what not, what is the standard or desired BC of the rounds for aircraft?

Just so i understand your saying the table you posted would be more accurate than the Kestrel? Either way what would be interesting with the kestrel is i can set the density altitude to that of what the aircraft would be flying and any other environmental factors and ranges get data as far as bullet drop, and all phases of flight hence speed and when it more than likely would start to tumble aka trans sonic to sub sonic depending upon the rounds design and aerodynamic properties.

I agree with both of you its a very in depth and great conversation just minus the im smarter more qualified than you stuff. Because joint effort here could really bring some great info into the mix and maybe even lead to further changes with "other" ordinance in the sim. :) http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Articles/ABDOC106_BCTesting.pdf in mean time this is a good read, much much smarter People out their than me that have enhanced our capabilities in the last 10 or so years. For example we use to use the g1 scale for a boat tail hollopoint type round for long range, then finally light bulb G7 is what should be used.

yes you can custom build any ordinance you want on the G scales. Plus they have many pre made profiles which honestly i doubt they have this round but ill look. It will be a fun side project, wish i would of brought it home today. disclaimer i dont speak german so ill do my best to figure that diagram out. :thumbup:

why are you guys having a weiner contest on ballistics???? Who cares, if we have identified some errors then lets get it consolidated and put in the right channels for a fix. So is the 30mm the germans used a boat tail hollow tip? I know quite allot in the sniper realm this stuff aka the aircraft i do not. As interesting as this discussion has been i think we should focus together and list exactly what deficiencies their are if any yes??? If you want i can use my Applied ballistics kestrel tomorrow and see what it says if it helps at all?

i think it will be good once they figure out how to not have the weird melting screen and water on screen error effect happening. I mean dear lord your on the ground look up at passing aircraft flying over head and its a blurry crappy motion image on them. Turn ASW off looks way better. Also isnt the point of ASW to allow weak systems to get a smooth experience... it wasnt made or enabled so you can jack all the settings to uber high and expect perfection...

:gun_sniper:oh boy this again....

i do a normal correct start up and get to 20 angles plus no problem. Check your procedures i would say. Then check your bindings aka axis maybe something is goofing up...

true it really must be a good throttle hand honestly, must be a specific technique of getting all that torque to the perfect level and the same time perfect rudder. THink once we figure it out it will be second nature.

thats weird as ive been watching allot of takeoff vids for both the Mustang and the Spit in real world and they get that rear end up right at the begining of roll out... think i will work on this in DCS