viper2097

So the Harrier will definitely not getting pushed back in Early Access and will still be considered as "released" "feature complete", "done" whatever? Is this already decided? Last word spoken? Altough many expected systems from the store page are either missing, or mainly missing / wrong? Do I understand this correct?

This discussion lasts now for three days. Beside the positive hands on from Nineline, Bignewy and tea_cypher, is there any (official) feedback from Razbam? It has a strange feeling that the responsible person(s) are still acting like a submarine. Three days should be more then enough to give a statement.

Exactley, EA is a good thing. It just should not get abused - which means that work on it has to continue without stop until it is finished.

Please, don't forget that if we all will recognize that Early Access isn't for us because of things like that, DCS can't be anymore. IIRC, Nick said that EA is the only way how DCS can survive. So, probably ED should take their responsibility a little more serious. Yes, ED is not responsible for that what Razbam is doing (although they try to help here also). But ED is responsible for letting modules out of EA and allowing new modules in EA.

Ok, understandable. Sorry, did not recognized that the f word was used there. Sounds absolutely right then. Thank you for re-viewing.

Wieso? Auf Facebook sieht man bei ihnen ja nur Kommentare wie toll und super alles ist :smilewink:.

Leider mit Sicherheit genügend. Die F-15 ist ein sehr stark gefragtes Modul. Viele werden sie leider kaufen da sie kein Interesse am Harrier oder der Mirage haben und daher auch nie mitbekommen haben wie bei Razbam gearbeitet wir und wie man die bezahlende Kundschaft behandelt. Wenn sie dann aber zum vierten mal das gleiche abziehen, dann wird der "just a shitstorm in a glas", wie der Chef von Razbam die Aufregung über den Harrier Release abwertend bezeichnete, wohl erheblich größer ausfallen.

@Marsvinet ED asked for a summed up list. Would it be possible that you could do such a list in your first post here? You could already start with this and then add all other things which gets posted?

Der Harrier ist heimlich still und leise von "Early Access" auf "Feature complete - Release" gesetzt worden. Das hat natürlich eine Diskussion entfacht in dem, glücklicherweise, auch endlich mal ED ein wenig Farbe bekennt hat: Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete? - BTW sehr lesenswerter Thread. Lässt mal ein wenig erahnen wie Razbam denkt und sich verhält, bzw. wieviel Ahnung ED wohl von den 3rd Party Modulen hat. ED wird sich nun selbst um das Bugtracking kümmern und bittet somit alle Bugreports im entsprechenden Bereich zu erfassen, bzw. zu aktualisieren. Inwiefern sie einen Einfluss darauf haben ob Razbam dass dann auch wirklich fixt wurde nicht gesagt. Desweiteren will ED erheben wie Feature complete der Harrier wirklich ist und bittet daher um den entsprechenden Input hier. Vielleicht hat ja jemand was zu den Themen beizutragen.

Sorry, but it is just emberassing how Razbam is treating their customers, and also the people who work with them: I learned my lession. I will never buy anything again from them. Thank you Bignewy and Nineline for jumping in and trying to get things running. Please, just keep on it with all the consequences. We paid for a feature complete and mainly bug-free Harrier, please do all from ED side to prove that we get what we paid for. Thank you. And please, don't allow to Razbam to rush any other module out before they get their **** sorted out. For me it is clear that the Harrier need to gets back to EA state and also that it must be taken care that development doesn't stall again. Thats now ED's responsibility.

The bugs and handling of those is one thing, but what about the fact that it is out of EA silently but, by far, being not feature complete?

Any news on that topic?

No info on that topic?

Are you kidding? The community bug tracker was the only good thing here since ever! How can a "correctly reported bug aknowledged by the devs" be done when they don't aknowledge anything? With your approach you are destroying the work of many people who have invested a lot of time! The community took enough pain - take the community bug tracker. There is nothing more you need. Also there is still nothing mentioned that helps. If Razbam should really put more bugs on the tracker, it won't change anything on how fast they are fixing them. Also there is no comment of how a module can leave EA while it is definitely not feature complete. Or why they are so rude and arrogant to their customers? Sorry, this is still emberassing. Is still would like to get my money back. It still feels like a scam for me. F-15E and Mig-23 incoming - I hope people will vote with their wallet.

Wow, this is emberassing. And unbelievable rude. Honestly, I don't know what to say anymore. I just want my money back.

Honestly, bugs will always be there and coming up. The questin is simple how and how fast they will be handled. But there should be no discussion that a module should be feature complete and all features should work as they should when leaving early access.

At least we have a date now. Looking forward to get the full fidelity sim: The trap-model looks quite good yet :megalol:

Bignewy, once again, we higly appreciate you jumping in here and doing Razbams work. Please, take all the enormous frustration that Razbam generated not personal - its not against you. Maybe you should not only talk to Razbam, but also to ED. At least, ED endorse what Razbam is doing. And the community deserves now a sustainable solution - and not again any more broken promises, announcements and frustrations.

It took already too much time, we need to see some action. How long do you think we should wait until it is complete and on par with other modules? Another three years? Its already a slap in the face that it left EA. The second slap is Razbam posting on Facebook pictures of how the F-15 and its weapon system is going forward. Case is clear: Shifted an incomplete and bugged all over Harrier silently from EA to complete to be able to work now "officially" on the F-15. Bignewy, you stated now multiple times that the Harrier is feature complete and thats why it is no more in EA. Please read the feature list of the module in the shop. It is absolutely clearly that the module is not fullfilling what there is standing. This is per definition scam. Are you aware of this?

Paying in advantage the full price for something that isn't finished is an approach and trust bonus from the customers to the Developers. Then not finishing something, and especially also ignoring any kind of communication from the customers is just rude. Razbam, would you pay your employees 3 years in advantage and beeing satisfied when they don't deliver and on top ignore you completely? Can you understand how we are feeling? I hope and wish you that the DCS community will vote with their wallet on your upcoming modules. However, you can already read in Zeus' signature how he thinks about us customers. Says probably more then anything else...

Bignewy, for me it is now quite simple: The Harrier is now officially considered as "feature complete" and "done". There are still a lot of things missing from the shop description. The actual state does not match the advertised product - altough you approved more times that it is finished. That is no personal opinion, this is a fact. I feel cheated, I want my money back - I watched it more then long enough, Razbam had more then enough time to deliver. I paid, but Razbam did not deliver. Please tell me how I can claim that - its enough. PS: I doubt that a dialog between Razbam and the community can help. There have been tons of empty promises in the past, they don't have the reputation that anyone would believe anything they say.

Bignewy, you said its out of Early Access because its feature complete. bkthunder made a short summary (not far mentioned everything) where things are missing according to the description in the shop. Or can you show me the "Detailed Operation Manual"? And sorry, we do not see any bugs adressed by Razbam. Some not since years. Can you please explain how this fits.to what you said?

Some of us recognized a few days ago that the Harrier is missing the "Early Access" tag in the shop and in the game. As the Harrier is still full of bugs, missing functionality, wrong implementations and does not even have a full manual, this step would not be understandable. Especially as it seems to be done "silent and without any announcement". So is the actual state of the Harrier now considered as "finished" by Razbam and is this also approved by ED?

If you fly the Harrier twice a week with 0 problems, all is said.

And they will do the same thing again with the F-15 and Mig-23. You'll see, nothing gonna change. And they will have a big party with their Fanbois von Discord who are familiar with aircrafts for Ace Combat ;).