KA-50 Losing Laser Target Capability

Hi

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong but last night while attempting the Clear Tkvarcheli mission. I fired all my Vikhr missiles and had to go back to the Farp to re-arm.

I returned to the battle area and fired another 10 Vikhr's, but when I tried the last two I had lost the Laser Range cabability of the Target Tracker ? I also lost the 'reducing' launch range circle around the Launch Zone Reticule (the arc that reduces when its within range to fire).

I'm not new to the KA-50 and didn't do anything different to firing the previous 22 missiles, also I'm pretty sure I wasn't hit by anything.

Anyone else had this problem ? Is it a bug or system design i.e. does the Laser overheat and shut down.

i.e. does the Laser overheat and shut down.

I know that laser overheating was modeled in BS1. If you did not follow the cycle that is descibed in the manual, then the laser would eventualy fail.

Doesn't know if it is also the case in BS2, but looks so :)

I follow these simple rules, and have never encountered a burned out laser

1) Use laser only when you're going to attack and require precice range measurement. The 'without laser' range is precise enough for most cases.

2) Wait for the countdown on hud to complete after each lase, before using the laser again.

...and after X-laze(16?), 30mn resting, something like that.

Overheat is modelled in BS2

i don't remember exacts numbers, but it's written somewhere.

OK thanks guys, I'll have to re-read the manual :thumbup:

I can't seem to find anything in the manual regarding Laser overheating. Can anyone point me to the correct page please.

Thanks

Its on Page 454 - Service limitations of I-251V Shkval

Laser rangefinder operation mode for one flight, series (Each serie consists of 16 cycles of 10 seconds with 5 sec interval between the cycles.): 5

Interval between the series, min: 30

The Hud shows the time out period for laser cooling.

The laser does burn out and does stop working with overuse, The mission "Gauntlet" requires 2 repairs!

The laser burn out is not set in all missions or is set to a high percentage of failure.

I think only two missions have this set but it could also be that they are the most target rich missions.

When it burns out just turn on manual fire and launch in their general direction. It is like artillery.

Thanks for telling about these aspects regarding the laser's limitations on the KA-50, but i'd like to know a little bit more about what does the manual tries to tell at page 454, when referring to these limitations.

It only tells:

-Laser rangefinder operation mode for one flight, series: the value is 5

-Each serie consists of 16 cycles of 10 seconds with 5 sec interval between the cycles.

So i'd really like to know what would it mean in the end! Do i have only 5 x 16 (80) usages of the laser (with 10 seconds of lasing) before it becomes unusable? Or what would those limitations refer to, if any other than maximum seconds of lasing before it would damage?

If the laser has a limited number of usages, that doesn't sound good when you need to lase many targets without getting close to them.

Thanks.

Thanks for telling about these aspects regarding the laser's limitations on the KA-50, but i'd like to know a little bit more about what does the manual tries to tell at page 454, when referring to these limitations.

 

It only tells:

 

-Laser rangefinder operation mode for one flight, series: the value is 5

 

-Each serie consists of 16 cycles of 10 seconds with 5 sec interval between the cycles.

 

So i'd really like to know what would it mean in the end! Do i have only 5 x 16 (80) usages of the laser (with 10 seconds of lasing) before it becomes unusable? Or what would those limitations refer to, if any other than maximum seconds of lasing before it would damage?

 

If the laser has a limited number of usages, that doesn't sound good when you need to lase many targets without getting close to them.

 

 

Thanks.

I think it shoud be 16*(10+5),the max time you may laser is 160 seconds,but you must wait for 5 seconds with a 10 seconds lasering time.

If the laser has a limited number of usages, that doesn't sound good when you need to lase many targets without getting close to them.

Technology. Deal with it :)

But if I remember the training correctly, there are ways to conserve cycles by re-adjusting the sight on another nearby target (and not using the laser to acquire a new range) within the time counting down (usually 6 seconds) after the first missile hit.

I'm not a hundred, though.

Thanks for replying!

This should mean that only i only have 10 tries (160 seconds = 10*16) before it burns out?:doh::joystick: ! Of course giving the condition that i let it cool down for 5 seconds after each use. This would be such a lame for the KA-50, because this is the most vital precise targeting function for this helicopter. Don't know what kind of laser technology did the russians had at that time, but i don't see the Su-25's and Su-25T's facing the same problem when using laser (where it has infinite usages, of course, with the giving period of cooling refreshment:smilewink:), so either ED hasn't simulated the same effect for the Su-25's, or it really is that good on the 25's and differs from the helicopter's laser type. Someone knows the truth there anyway.

So sad to learn that after the laser burns out, the awesome KAMOV becomes a HUEY type hunter in no time!:huh:

Cheers,

Mav.

its definitely more than 16 since if it were sixteen the laser would burn out quickly after firing the last missile.

ive only had it burn out after using it 40-60 times one laze after the other.

and also i think just lazing targets doesnt do much to the laser as guiding a missile is much more demanding.

To get the maximum out of the laser you want to wait for the countdown to reach zero after every shot, and only reset it in emergencies

The only time I've ever seen my laser fail is when I accidentally had it mapped to the push-to-talk button. I can see how it might be an issue in long missions, but at the same time, I think waiting the three minutes for repairs is an okay solution (provided it's available like that in single-player?).

But if I remember the training correctly, there are ways to conserve cycles by re-adjusting the sight on another nearby target (and not using the laser to acquire a new range) within the time counting down (usually 6 seconds) after the first missile hit

Below is just from memory, so the countdown intervals and ranges are just approximate.

If you avoid locking/ acquiring range on every new target and instead manually keep the target centered in the shkval (by slewing), it is possible to avoid firing the laser, and avoid the consequent 8 second countdown. I guess this must conserve one use of the laser ranger per missile fired this way.

There is also a difference in how the laser ranger is used which is reflected by the resulting countdown. When a (possibly moving) target is being locked (8 second countdown) with the laser the countdown is longer than if the laser is just fired on an inert point on the ground (4 second countdown).

If you don't have a range when firing a vikhr (do this by finding a target with the laser set to off, after the target is locked/found the laser should be set to standby - else the missile will lack the needed guidance) and the weapons system is set to manual the missile will be guided for about 4-5km by default.

launch in their general direction. It is like artillery.

Had any luck with that technique? Sorry for sounding slightly disbelieving....

This should mean that only i only have 10 tries (160 seconds = 10*16) before it burns out?:doh::joystick: !

There is a large difference in power between the ranging and the guidance modes of the laser. The burn out problem is due to ranging which requires that reflected energy be picked up by the Shkval, whereas guidance uses a weaker beam to paint a cone grid for the Vikhr to follow. The Vikhr sensor looks directly at the laser source instead of a reflected beam.

Try to minimize ranging and you should be fine. The targeting computer uses its navigation solution to keep track of the current range, so one measurement is enough for a group of targets.

:megalol:

 

Had any luck with that technique? Sorry for sounding slightly disbelieving....

Haha I wish.

There is a large difference in power between the ranging and the guidance modes of the laser. The burn out problem is due to ranging which requires that reflected energy be picked up by the Shkval, whereas guidance uses a weaker beam to paint a cone grid for the Vikhr to follow. The Vikhr sensor looks directly at the laser source instead of a reflected beam.

 

Try to minimize ranging and you should be fine. The targeting computer uses its navigation solution to keep track of the current range, so one measurement is enough for a group of targets.

Thanks very much for the info PhoenixBvo, now i better understand it's limitations and working functions, so i should not have it burned so quickly afterwards.

Thank you all for the replies.

and also i think just lazing targets doesnt do much to the laser as guiding a missile is much more demanding.

Actually, the ranging laser takes a lot more energy ( and heat ) than the laser tunnel that guides the missile, because the ranging laser has to be strong enough to reflect back to the helicopter. The missile tunnel is weaker because it just has to get to the missile. Thats why its the ranging laser that tends to burn out with over usage.

Edit: Aghh, Phoenix beat me to it.

but i don't see the Su-25's and Su-25T's facing the same problem when using laser (where it has infinite usages, of course, with the giving period of cooling refreshment:smilewink:), so either ED hasn't simulated the same effect for the Su-25's, or it really is that good on the 25's and differs from the helicopter's laser type. Someone knows the truth there anyway.

The Su-25T first and foremost isn't modeled on a DCS level, and second the Ka-50 can lock and engage different targets in a much shorter time period because it's a helicopter, and not a a constantly moving jet, like the Su-25T :)

The Su-25T first and foremost isn't modeled on a DCS level, and second the Ka-50 can lock and engage different targets in a much shorter time period because it's a helicopter, and not a a constantly moving jet, like the Su-25T :)

Yeah, i know you have a lot of time between the engaging of targets on the SU-25, compared to a standing helicopter which can rapidly switch to the next target (thus giving the laser much less time to cool down), but now i understand the big difference..., although i'd love to have the laser be modeled realistic (or as close as possible) for the Su-25's as well, just for the sake of DCS levels, but it's only my wish!

Thanks for the reply!

Cheers.

In the SU-25 it should be easier to cool down the laser as well, you've got higher speed at higher altitudes (higher airflow and lower temperatures).

Some tipps for using the Laser in the Shark.

-If you have to attack larger groups of enemy Vehicles with the Vikhr missile wait for the cooling Countdown hit 0 and again wait 5 seconds before the next launch.

-Rangfinding produces much Heat/Beamridelaser less ,hold in mind if you have to use the Gun often (you havent to make new Rangefinding for every new Target closeby to the last one)

-A/A Mode Pruduces BY FAR most Heat caused by permanent Rangefinding.

- At Short Distance (less than 5 km) and Static Target you havent to make a Rangefind first (1.Switch laser off-2.pic up Target-3.Switch laser on-do not pic up Target again just fire the missile>>the Beamride will be activated for 8 seconds every time the laser is on and you fire a vikhr)

-Switch the laser off after every attack. (it has not to be on as long as you Scan for new Targets)

-A/A Mode Pruduces BY FAR most Heat caused by permanent Rangefinding.

Could I please get a source on this? I really want to read up more on the Shark's targeting capabilities. This thread has already been super helpful =)