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Help with Handling the Spitfire Mk IX (25 Feb was one of the worst days of my...)


imacken

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It was the day I bought the Spitfire module for DCS.

Since that day, this is the pattern of any leisure time I have had:

1) Land Spitfire

2) Tilt and scrape wing

3) Right the plane

4) Take off

Repeat steps 1) - 4) dozens and dozens of times every day!

I have taken advice (from a another thread here) from several people, watched endless Youtube videos (with ever increasing rage at how you guys make it look so easy!), tried faster/slower descents, tried the 'pre-load brake method, shorter/longer approach, higher/lower approach. rudder dance, earlier/later flare, and nothing, I mean nothing makes a difference.

I come into landing perfectly trimmed, and tend to land quite nicely (most of the time!), go along runway a few metres, and then, no matter what rudder I use, off the plane veers, wing scrapes the runway, and deja vu kicks in over and over again.

I honestly am questioning my sanity here. I have to go back to the Mustang to prove to myself that I can land planes like these perfectly OK!

My mood and frustration levels have become so bad, that my friends are seriously wondering why I am so grumpy, and when I tell them, they just laugh!

The only way I can get my life, wife and friends back to to give up on this plane once and for all.

Should it really be this hard!

Aarrgghh!!!

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I come into landing perfectly trimmed, and tend to land quite nicely (most of the time!), go along runway a few metres, and then, no matter what rudder I use, off the plane veers, wing scrapes the runway, and deja vu kicks in over and over again.

I honestly am questioning my sanity here.

 

I was in the same boat as you - I spent more hours especially trying to get the landing down before I was finally able to do so successfully.

 

Two things that were key to me in being able to transition from what you described to a nice smooth landing all the way up to a complete stop.

 

1: While the plane "felt" slow to me on my approach up until final flare, I was still coming in too hot. Now I am usually between 85-90 as I cross the runway threshold ( have trimmed for this), then I ease her down gently as I flare and the plane approaches stall speed. Barely over the runway when this occurs, and touch down with all three wheels at the same time.

 

2: Immediately after touching down, I ease in some braking - gently. I have brakes assigned to both my toe brakes, so easy to use whichever pedal is more convenient. The plane will roll to a smooth and straight stop fairly quickly. Maybe some very minor rudder corrections.

 

I have gotten to where I get very smooth landings now most of the time, occasionally will flub one up but all my fault - usually by setting it down a little too fast.

 

Hope this helps,

Don B

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First things I would suggest it check your joystick sensitivity curves and change them to what Chucks spitfire guide states. I think I modified mine slightly from his but they do help. Next for takeoff make sure your takeoff trims are set correctly, ease throttle up and feed in some right rudder when needed. Then I tend to lift the rear up before it would without any input with some downward pitch. This let's you get a feel of things before you lift off, almost instantly after left off you'll want to adjust your trims.

 

Once stable with level flight you can then pull back the propeller pitch lever (basically like going up a gear). You'll hear the engine speed drop but don't let it drop too much, instantly you'll notice the speed increase with no increase in the throttle position. From there keep checking all your temps and open the radiator lever (because you're off the ground it doesn't need to be filtered anymore)

 

As for landing always come in from quite an angle so you can see the runway easier, once the flaps are down ease down onto the runway threshold with the help of rudder and reduce throttle to idle. Let it float down and you should have touchdown eventually. :)

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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First things I would suggest it check your joystick sensitivity curves and change them to what Chucks spitfire guide states. I think I modified mine slightly from his but they do help. Next for takeoff make sure your takeoff trims are set correctly, ease throttle up and feed in some right rudder when needed. Then I tend to lift the rear up before it would without any input with some downward pitch. This let's you get a feel of things before you lift off, almost instantly after left off you'll want to adjust your trims.

 

Once stable with level flight you can then pull back the propeller pitch lever (basically like going up a gear). You'll hear the engine speed drop but don't let it drop too much, instantly you'll notice the speed increase with no increase in the throttle position. From there keep checking all your temps and open the radiator lever (because you're off the ground it doesn't need to be filtered anymore)

 

As for landing always come in from quite an angle so you can see the runway easier, once the flaps are down ease down onto the runway threshold with the help of rudder and reduce throttle to idle. Let it float down and you should have touchdown eventually. :)

Thanks, but did you read my post? I've got no problems with take off, level flight or making a landing and surviving (just!), it's the tilt and scrape after landing I can't resolve no matter what people advise.

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It was the day I bought the Spitfire module for DCS.

Since that day, this is the pattern of any leisure time I have had:

1) Land Spitfire

2) Tilt and scrape wing

3) Right the plane

4) Take off

Repeat steps 1) - 4) dozens and dozens of times every day!

I have taken advice (from a another thread here) from several people, watched endless Youtube videos (with ever increasing rage at how you guys make it look so easy!), tried faster/slower descents, tried the 'pre-load brake method, shorter/longer approach, higher/lower approach. rudder dance, earlier/later flare, and nothing, I mean nothing makes a difference.

I come into landing perfectly trimmed, and tend to land quite nicely (most of the time!), go along runway a few metres, and then, no matter what rudder I use, off the plane veers, wing scrapes the runway, and deja vu kicks in over and over again.

I honestly am questioning my sanity here. I have to go back to the Mustang to prove to myself that I can land planes like these perfectly OK!

My mood and frustration levels have become so bad, that my friends are seriously wondering why I am so grumpy, and when I tell them, they just laugh!

The only way I can get my life, wife and friends back to to give up on this plane once and for all.

Should it really be this hard!

Aarrgghh!!!

 

I was having the wing tip frustration.

I can second the applying of brakes as soon as you touch down and before your wing starts to tip. It seems to help keep the aircraft straight. As you apply the brakes be ready to catch the plane with you rudders and keep it in a straight line and personally I apply the brakes on and off not continuously. As I'm sure you probably know brakes will try and tip the aircraft forwards so be ready with aft stick pressure. Spit doesn't have toe brakes and personally although I have pedals I don't use the toe brakes on it I use button 4 on my warthog for brakes. Be sure to touch down as slow as possible as she bounces very easily, by the sounds of it you have already experienced all of this.

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If you want to why not join me online and we will work on your landing together? :)

That sounds interesting! I'm not sure how to do that though. How do we connect?

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We can jump on a server called Burning Skies or one of the others that have the spitfire.

 

Do you have teamspeak, that would make life easier?

 

Just let me know when you want to have a go :D

 

Edit: Burning Skies teamspeak info can be found on the first post in the thread below...

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=130161


Edited by Krupi

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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I've not done this kind of thing before. Can you give me a step by step of how we do this? Is teamspeak free?

What time zone are you in?

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Same as you UK.

 

Teamspeak is free you can download it here...

 

https://www.teamspeak.com/downloads.html

 

Just install and it should recognize your microphone without needing to set it up.

 

Once installed connect to this teamspeak server

 

burningskies.voice-server.ru

 

Then I can lead you through the rest :)

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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Ok, can I pm you tomorrow? What time are you available?

How do we connect on the server? Are you able to see my screen?

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Sure, I should be around from 6/7 tomorrow.

 

You just have to click on the Multiplayer button on the main screen, this will open up the server list screen and its just a case of finding the server by its name and double clicking :)

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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Try landing between 80 and 60 once your down tap the brakes rudder inputs where needed, I think i spent 5 hours straight doing exactly that i can now take off and land on one side of the runway. And still continue to practice to get it right.

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I always stay off the brakes just after touchdown, unless the plane is strongly veering off the runway. If my landing is relatively straight, and while there is still good airflow over the rudder, I use short, quick stabs on the rudder pedals to immediately correct any deviation as soon as it begins. Then, when the plane slows, I use short, quick brake inputs to immediately correct any deviation as soon as it begins. That said, I still have the occasional wing scrape on landing that leaves me a little mystified.

 

You mentioned the "rudder dancing" so it may be that you're doing all of this correctly already and there is some other problem.

 

If you still have issues after your online tutorial, maybe posting a video or track would help us spot any problems with technique.

 

Good luck!


Edited by JimTM
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Don't worry I have a plan, I just don't want to post it here or those pesky 109 pilots will be all over us! :D

 

If anybody else is around and wants to help out or needs to touch up take off and landings feel free to join us.


Edited by Krupi

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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I always stay off the brakes just after touchdown, unless the plane is strongly veering off the runway. If my landing is relatively straight, and while there is still good airflow over the rudder, I use short, quick stabs on the rudder pedals to immediately correct any deviation as soon as it begins. Then, when the plane slows, I use short, quick brake inputs to immediately correct any deviation as soon as it begins. That said, I still have the occasional wing scrape on landing that leaves me a little mystified.

 

^ This, this and once again, very much this. I would sign under this description using all my 21 fingers.

 

That being said, controller used, and its setup, might make things easier or much harder.

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Krupi, did you get my reply to your PM? On these forums, whenever I send a reply to a message, it never shows up in 'Sent Messages'!

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Yes I got it mate, good to hear you have got the hang of it :thumbup: .

 

I sent you an response regarding the pedals, definiently ask on these forums before buying.

 

I can highly recommend the MFG Crosswind pedals...

 

http://mfg.simundza.com/products

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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At the moment, I am using my G27 wheel pedals, which work fine. I just thought that because of the fact that the brakes pre-load workaroud seemed to solve a lot of my issues, that not having brakes on a slider could be the issue. However, as you are using a button on the Warthog, like me, then maybe I should stick with the pedals I've got.

BTW, the Crosswinds are way too expensive for me!

I though the new Thrustmasters with the pedals on rails and toe brakes looked pretty interesting for not much money.

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Hey imacken - I don't as yet have the Spitfire module, but had similar problems with another WW2 sim with tail draggers, where upon landing and slowing down the aircraft would ground loop (spin around the main landing gear, making a nice doughnut on the ground :) ), and often drag a wing tip.

 

The most important thing that helped me upon touching down (assuming I had cut back my throttle all the way), was to increase throttle to approximately 15-20% power, pulling back on the stick 100%, and gently but steadily applying ever increasing brake pressure until I came to a stop.

 

The issue with me (and maybe you) was that when the aircraft slowed down, there wasn't enough air flow over the control surfaces (esp. the rudder and elevators). By increasing throttle and pulling the stick back, there was a constant flow of air over the elevators, keeping the tail pressed against the ground, allowing the rudder and, more importantly (if it locks) the tail wheel to provide more directional authority.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Relent

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Hey imacken - I don't as yet have the Spitfire module, but had similar problems with another WW2 sim with tail draggers, where upon landing and slowing down the aircraft would ground loop (spin around the main landing gear, making a nice doughnut on the ground :) ), and often drag a wing tip.

 

The most important thing that helped me upon touching down (assuming I had cut back my throttle all the way), was to increase throttle to approximately 15-20% power, pulling back on the stick 100%, and gently but steadily applying ever increasing brake pressure until I came to a stop.

 

The issue with me (and maybe you) was that when the aircraft slowed down, there wasn't enough air flow over the control surfaces (esp. the rudder and elevators). By increasing throttle and pulling the stick back, there was a constant flow of air over the elevators, keeping the tail pressed against the ground, allowing the rudder and, more importantly (if it locks) the tail wheel to provide more directional authority.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Relent

I appreciate your comments, thank you.

Unfortunately, unlike say the Mustang, the tail on the Spit doesn't lock, so there is freewheeling all the time!

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I appreciate your comments, thank you.

Unfortunately, unlike say the Mustang, the tail on the Spit doesn't lock, so there is freewheeling all the time!

 

The tail wheel is your answer, so by applying brakes you can adjust the direction of the tail wheel. If you want confirmation of this start a flight in the Spitfire from the ground. Go to F4 view external looking at the rear of the aeroplane. Increase your throttle so you start to move then apply rudder, you will notice that you have very limited response and no tail wheel response. Now apply brakes and rudder then notice how the tail wheel responds. So when touching down upon landing dab brakes to gain a control of the tail wheel keeping it straight and thereafter small inputs on the brakes whilst applying simultaneous rudder input to guide the aircraft to a stop whilst maintaining a straight line.

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I appreciate your comments, thank you.

Unfortunately, unlike say the Mustang, the tail on the Spit doesn't lock, so there is freewheeling all the time!

 

That's fine, the principle still works the same (even more so - in my examples I was landing with the Lagg3 and La5, which also have no locking tail wheel). The key is keeping the throttle up a little as mentioned after touching down - this keeps a significant flow of air flowing over the tail surfaces - including the rudder - thus minimizing the tail slide.

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