the non existent communication is getting rather annoying

[VincentLaw]

and mostly, WHERE IS THE PROMISED SDK!

Actually, I disagree with some of the others on the SDK. The SDK has been shown to have a landscape viewer separate from EDGE, so it should be possible to develop maps without EDGE being completed or even functional at all.

 

RRG said they want a dedicated community team to have a high quality community map ready in time for the WWII release, then they should be giving the community team the best head start possible. Of course, that would require coordination with the community.

Edited March 22, 2014 by VincentLaw

[klem]

Is there some reason why my post was deleted?

[Dieter]

Hi all

It seems we will wait for quite some time before we'll be able to play, so i decided to make a break and play race cars pc games. Do u like my new beast ? :megalol:

[zaelu]

YES!!!:thumbup:

[cichlidfan]

Actually, I disagree with some of the others on the SDK. The SDK has been shown to have a landscape viewer separate from EDGE, so it should be possible to develop maps without EDGE being completed or even functional at all.

 

Actually, it must be possible since that is what RRG is doing.

[NineLine]

That doesnt mean its ready for us.

[dburne]

Well as a backer I will say , I am certainly very disappointed - not totally surprised knowing a lot of the history...

 

I think at this point it is safe to say I regret backing now and will certainly not do so again.

[zaelu]

I only want to say in this matter that the updates on kickstarter look like some boring whining excuses. I skip through them and I'm secretly (not any more it seems) happy that they mean he didn't run away... yet.

 

(I say this also as a backer :) )

[NineLine]

Guys, stay on track, the biggest reason for this thread was to convey your biggest outstanding questions for RRG and DCS WWII, I dont want to go all ranty in here.

[Kallisto 204]

@zuti nice to hear from you

do you know if the next team daidalos patch for IL-1946 contains the rearm repair and refuel

function from your moving dogfight

 

sorry guys for offtopic

[Charly_Owl]

Guys, stay on track, the biggest reason for this thread was to convey your biggest outstanding questions for RRG and DCS WWII, I dont want to go all ranty in here.

 

The biggest reason for this thread was to be heard... which has yet to happen.

[VincentLaw]

The biggest reason for this thread was to be heard... which has yet to happen.

Just because something is not acknowledged does not mean it was not heard.

[zaelu]

nor that it was. hence the "copy" and "roger that", etc

[NineLine]

The biggest reason for this thread was to be heard... which has yet to happen.

 

 

Actually the original point of the thread was to collect some questions and give RRG one place to look for them, it wasnt RRG or ED's idea, but mine, any failure to get a response to this thread can go on me as no one from the DCS WWII said they would come and answer the questions here. Forum rules will still apply, and I dont want to let the thread get out of control, and we all know it can, I hope you understand this, you can PM me if you have any other questions concerning this.

[leafer]

Just a bunch of excuses. I just can't believe this. It was exactly the same with the last project he was responsible for. ... Still, it is just unbelievable that "they" still did not manage to create a dedicated page where kickstarter and paypal buyers can communicate (we that used paypal can not "bitch" on kickstarter page, thank god that at least we have confirmation of payment) and mostly, WHERE IS THE PROMISED SDK!

 

The bull like "let him develop" is irrelevant, we let him develop the previous project. Much good that did us.

 

You let him develop, I'm guessing, CLOD? Someone must have had digital orgasm after stumbling upon this here thread.

[Merlin-27]

Guys, stay on track, the biggest reason for this thread was to convey your biggest outstanding questions for RRG and DCS WWII, I dont want to go all ranty in here.

 

Sith,

I hate to sound like I am stirring the pot at all since I've already decided to stop voicing my opinion...

 

BUT, I noticed you saying the main reason for this thread is to convey outstanding questions. Has a single one of our questions been answered by an RRG representative yet? Or should we expect those to show up in September 2014 as well? :smilewink:

 

EDIT: Just noticed the other responses. Sorry to repeat the obvious.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Merlin-27

[klem]

Actually the original point of the thread was to collect some questions and give RRG one place to look for them, it wasnt RRG or ED's idea, but mine, any failure to get a response to this thread can go on me as no one from the DCS WWII said they would come and answer the questions here. Forum rules will still apply, and I dont want to let the thread get out of control, and we all know it can, I hope you understand this, you can PM me if you have any other questions concerning this.

 

SiThSpAwN

 

I know this is an ED forum and you might expect Ilya to come here but it seems at the moment his chosen route for communication is the Kickstarter reports where any comments or questions can be put. This makes sense because it is likely that many of the 2,500 backers may never have heard of, or at the moment be interested in, this forum. It is, after all, still a Kickstarter project whereas these forums are more likely to be used by ED game owners and this game is not released yet.

 

We may have the use here of a forum specially set up for us to discuss and exchange ideas but it would be pretty arrogant of us to expect all of the 2,500 Kickstarter backers to come here for answers. For many backers Kickstarter will be the only place for communication.

 

I am not sure of your role (obviously you're moderating under the forum rules) but if you are also representing the forum to RRG (you mentioned a NDA agreement) perhaps you could post these questions in Kickstareter or pass them to Ilya personally. Of course that would probably put you in the position of ED forums 'publications manager'.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

klem you are joking right?

first he is just as ignorant over there as he is here...not answering any questions at all.

second, this subforum was built for a reason, and during the kickstarter, where he needed the money, for some strange reason he was quite acitve promising communication.

[rootango]

i think this thread should be renamed to "the self-righteous demands in flightsim forums are getting rather annoying" :). maybe some CoD bananaforum travelers have landed here and brought their disease with them ?

 

luthier and his small team are at the start of the project in pre-alpha and are scrambling to get some work done and are trying to overcome the initial main technical hurdles that are nearly always present in these type of ambitious projects, and they are still trying to confirm to themselves that the breakneck milestones of development for release in late 2014 are even possible ! it is NOT the time for bystanders to make lots of demands and seek attention and want their ego's massaged every week with some new fluffy prose. imho you either had confidence at the start that this project was realistic (and now should be patient), or you shouldnt have backed it !

 

my sympathies to the wizard guy who put down 500 or 1000 $ in the hope to sit in on skype'd development meetings, but i strongly suspect that it is WAY to early for that, and the logical time for that type of observer participation into luthiers team discussions would be during the open beta.

 

and for the very few who havnt received their p51 product keys (most have) and are really stressing out by it, contact kickstarter with a formal complaint and ask for your money back, and then only buy the finished game when it appears on the shelf at your local game retailer.

Edited March 23, 2014 by rootango

[Whiplash]

i think this thread should be renamed to "the self-righteous demands in flightsim forums are getting rather annoying" :). maybe some CoD banaforum travelers have landed here and brought their disease with them ?

 

 

It's funny I didn't think I saw anything here that was self righteous until I read that... We're not asking for the moon here. It's been stated in this thread, no one is complaining about his updates. Luther began his updates saying he would do two a week. Well I would challenge you to find anyone really who is disappointed that he never delivered on that promise. What I am dissappointed about most is the 180 degrees of communication that happened somewhere right after the kickstarter ended. Our group has legitimate concerns/questions that have yet to be acknowledged. Ok, so maybe he can't get everyone their promised P-51 key, but merely blowing it off without a simple explanation? That is blatant disrespect to the customer. I still have all the hope in the world that this project is a success but at this stage there is a serious lack of class that has been displayed which I fear will have a ripple effect on any new endeavors.

[Merlin-27]

i think this thread should be renamed to "the self-righteous demands in flightsim forums are getting rather annoying" :). maybe some CoD banaforum travelers have landed here and brought their disease with them ?

 

luthier and his small team are at the start of the project in pre-alpha and are scrambling to get some work done and are trying to overcome the initial main technical hurdles that are nearly always present in these type of ambitious projects, and they are still trying to confirm to themselves that the breakneck milestones of development for release in late 2014 are even possible ! it is NOT the time for bystanders to make lots of demands and seek attention and want their ego's massaged every week with some new fluffy prose. imho you either had confidence at the start that this project was realistic (and now should be patient), or you shouldnt have backed it !

 

my sympathies to the wizard guy who put down 500 or 1000 $ in the hope to sit in on skype'd development meetings, but i strongly suspect that it is WAY to early for that, and the logical time for that type of observer participation into luthiers team discussions would be during the open beta.

 

and for the very few who havnt received their p51 product keys (most have) and are really stressing out by it, contact kickstarter with a formal complaint and ask for your money back, and then only buy the finished game when it appears on the shelf at your local game retailer.

 

I know you're trolling with such volatile wording and 15 posts under your belt but here goes...

 

You honestly think that it is acceptable behavior to not touch base with individual backers SIX MONTHS into development? And for the record, I'm not really that concerned about the Skype meetings actually occurring yet. My real concerns, which I have clarified time and time again, are about communication (or lack of) from RRG. Yes, we all knew going in that is was a small group trying to pull off a very ambitious goal. To keep repeating that is ridiculous. I must live in a different world, but when someone lends me assistance in any way, I make sure they know it is appreciated in some way. I might even answer a few questions or concerns from them.

 

I believe for true flight sims to avoid extinction the online communities such as this one are CRUCIAL. This is not a console arcade title that will sell no matter the fan base. The Kickstarter campaign made this all too apparent. You have here a dedicated group that has poured their hearts and souls into the DCS P-51D and can easily envision the mother of all WWII sims and its potential. The Mustang proved it can be done right, but also set the bar very high. I hoped ED picked the right person to carry the ball the rest of the way and I feel we have every right to express our concerns in a forum setting. I have given compliments on many occasion when they were deserved.

 

Do you think you'd ever improve if people blindly gave you compliments throughout your life afraid that they might hurt your feelings?

 

This obscure character said something relevant once...

 

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.”

- Winston Churchill

[MA_Goblin]

I've also put in some cash, it might not be that much in $ but it's definitely a lot in my currency! I would really like to have some info about the backers rewards and perhaps a key to the P51 also.

 

To not be able to create the website for the title or to be able to consolidate the database from KS and the PP backers after six months speaks volumes to me and I've set my mind to the fact that my cash's gone and thus since I'm burned twice now by the same people I'll never jump on the bandwagon of pre-financing anything again.

 

//

[rootango]

You honestly think that it is acceptable behavior to not touch base with individual backers SIX MONTHS into development?

 

yeps i do, unless we are talking about something completely different and i misunderstand you. there are semi regular kickstarter updates, most people that needed to get keys for early aircraft bonuses have received them, and the project is on track by all indications.

 

in recent years there is this misplaced sense of entitlement by some (i am not saying specifically you) that just because they are passionate and deeply committed/involved in a particular game, that somehow this obligates the developers to be accountable to demands being made (in this case, to be responsive to aggressively made demands of interaction and providing information).

 

this is a pretty good article that puts this issue in a broader context http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

 

i think there is a clear difference between supporting our game genre and helping it to succeed, compared to becoming part of the problem and creating a toxic environment.

 

small niche game developers like luthier are putting their heart and soul into developing a game they are passionate about for a very small specialised market place. would any rational person stay committed if all they see is a toxic soup of aggression, trivial complaints, and irrational demands ? as such the line between success and failure is very fine, and i believe if we are seeing ourselves as supporters and fans that we should do our part in creating constructive feedback and contribute to increasing our mutual chances the end product being a success, not undermine it.

 

and if you paid that large chunk of money and still havnt received your p51 product key, how about i give you my key ? i havnt activated it yet so it is valid and working, and you can just give me your key when the oversight is eventually addressed (as I am confident that the few who havnt received it yet will soon be identified by DCS/luthier)

 

there is a place for constructive criticism, it is not a matter of blindly and uncritically cheering them along no matter what happens or errors are made but ffs lets focus on the OVERWHELMING positive side of having the il2 series heart and minds now developing a DCS ww2 project :)

Edited March 23, 2014 by rootango

[MACADEMIC]

Luthier - is it you? :huh:

 

MAC

 

yeps i do, unless we are talking about something completely different and i misunderstand you. there are semi regular kickstarter updates, most people that needed to get keys for early aircraft bonuses have received them, and the project is on track by all indications.

 

in recent years there is this misplaced sense of entitlement by some (i am not saying specifically you) that just because they are passionate and deeply committed/involved in a particular game, that somehow this obligates the developers to be accountable to demands being made (in this case, to be responsive to aggressively made demands of interaction and providing information).

 

this is a pretty good article that puts this issue in a broader context http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

 

i think there is a clear difference between supporting our game genre and helping it to succeed, compared to becoming part of the problem and creating a toxic environment.

 

small niche game developers like luthier are putting their heart and soul into developing a game they are passionate about for a very small specialised market place. would any rational person stay committed if all they see is a toxic soup of aggression, trivial complaints, and irrational demands ? as such the line between success and failure is very fine, and i believe if we are seeing ourselves as supporters and fans that we should do our part in creating constructive feedback and contribute to increasing our mutual chances the end product being a success, not undermine it.

 

and if you paid that large chunk of money and still havnt received your p51 product key, how about i give you my key ? i havnt activated it yet so it is valid and working, and you can just give me your key when the oversight is eventually addressed (as I am confident that the few who havnt received it yet will soon be identified by DCS/luthier)

 

there is a place for constructive criticism, it is not a matter of blindly and uncritically cheering them along no matter what happens or errors are made but ffs lets focus on the OVERWHELMING positive side of having the il2 series heart and minds now developing a DCS ww2 project :)

[rootango]

a key to the P51 also.

if you are one of the few people who hasnt received their p51 key, then get yourselves organized. create a poll on the right forum and get an approximate idea of the number of people and their forum names. then collectively notify the forum managers here, then the DCS management directly (by forum post, by email and if so required by registered mail), and also luthiers group directly. also post it in the kickstarter feedback posts. i am confident that if you stay civilized, address the right people via the right channels, this WILL be corrected.

 

To not be able to create the website for the title or to be able to consolidate the database from KS and the PP backers after six months speaks volumes to me

but that i regret to inform you is completely irrelevant, and you are not in a position to make demands for. whatever kickstarter category you backed/paid-for is what you will receive (or get your money back), all the rest is up to them to do as they see best (or have the manpower to do and consider as a priority).

Edited March 23, 2014 by rootango