Do carrier captains shit their pants everytime an aircraft is on final?

[WildBillKelsoe]

I want to know how carrier captains (sea boss) manages the operations with air boss. I've been thinking of long deployments, even long haul missions (ferry, if you like), the carrier launches aircrafts and conducts exercises normally in calm seas, but what if the seas are shit and there is high tide and the boat is rocking like crazy and there are aircrafts inbound or short on fuel? what do they do? do they, like:

 

hey air boss, the waves are high, we might need to vector these into nearest mainland

 

or

 

hey air boss, we got a C-130 (fictional) inbound with supplies and we need to head into calm seas for landing that bugger.

 

 

how do they manage it?

[kontiuka]

^

hopefully the pants-shitters are weeded out before they get that job.:D

[EtherealN]

That wasnt reallythe questionthough. :p

 

Interesting the question is, however. Now I want to know too.

[Scrim]

I'm assuming the meteorologists aboard can give warning in time so flight operations can be suspended well before something like that happens.

[Flagrum]

I'm assuming the meteorologists aboard can give warning in time so flight operations can be suspended well before something like that happens.

That's what I would expect, too.

 

At least sailing into calmer seas is no option imo - if the weather is that bad, then it is bad all around the battle group as well and it would take days to get where it would be noticably different.

[lunaticfringe]

If the aircraft are short on fuel, and in the middle of the Pacific, what is this hypothetical "mainland" you would direct them to?

 

Aircraft can almost unequivocally always outrun stormfronts. Flight operations are scheduled accordingly. And if operations demand flight in poor weather (which is a more common occurrence than you seem to think), you land. You may launch aircraft to extend fuel availability and ride them as long above the storm as you can to look for an opening, but you will land those jets if required.

 

United States Navy: Can Do Easy.

[104th_Maverick]

Although not directly about the Captain this video gives you a good look at Flight Operations in pretty high seas!

 

Certainly enough to make the pilot shit himself!

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

ok here is another one:

 

do carriers have ANYTHING on the flight deck during rough seas? personnel? equipment? etc?? Are those things (if available), secured? anchored? moored?

 

I've seen those drain holes on the flight deck and think maybe a towing truck can be bolted down by ropes (maybe) to these drain holes scattered around the deck.

 

Sorry maverick ur vid doesn't play in my country (suspect sensitive military information in video)...

 

Edit: what if meterologists on board get spiked by unexpected weather? or what if their predictions are wrong or severely off accurate (nevermind the part they are punitively handled please and the sheer amount of frowny faces they'll run into during the turn of events).

 

Oh, maybe ED can give us DCS: Kuznetsov or DCS: Vinson? I'd love to have a working tower on both in DCS, with controls of course... ah well back to topic

Edited March 12, 2014 by WildBillKelsoe

[Home Fries]

Fully Mission Capable aircraft are normally kept on the flight deck; space is at a premium on a carrier, and the hangar deck is used to maintain down birds. That said, in severe weather I'm sure they would get the aircraft below decks and pack them in tight (haven't been in that weather myself), but it wouldn't be easy. Those tie-downs are in fact for securing aircraft during normal weather.

 

And the METRO guys aren't going to be wrong when it counts. It's not as if you're planning on sunshine and getting rain; that's no big deal. Something that would prevent flight ops (like a hurricane or gale) is pretty easy to see in real-time. Besides, all aviators are also trained in METRO, so there are plenty of eyes looking at the problem.

 

So we know that the deck is a crowded place in good weather, and a ghost town in a hurricane, but what about something in the middle? It depends on operational necessity. Is it worth increasing the risk to the flight crew in order to complete the mission? That's a decision for the Admiral, Captain, and CAG to make.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Home Fries

[NRG-Vampire]

Sorry maverick ur vid doesn't play in my country (suspect sensitive military information in video)...

 

here come :smilewink: cheers

 

[badger66]

Im wonderin what happens if the carrier gets into some strong sea states ..... normal opps you can chain the bird down depending on the weather state ..... but what if it starts getting worse , the birds might break their chains .

 

What then ..... do you leave them there or try and get them downstairs . How would you expect to tow them in a bad sea state .

 

I think its a reasonable question cuz we all know it can start off a shit day and end up with thunder and lightning .

[Vampyre]

The answers to your questions are highly dependent on the situation. During normal operations safety is paramount. I remember doing CQ on the TR off the coast of Maryland in February of 2003 in the middle of a blizzard... at night! The cold wind was blowing straight through all my layers of clothing like it wasn't even there. The snow was so bad we couldn't even see the jets until they were just over the round down as I was walking past the junkyard. After parking one of my jets at the top of the four row, and as I was walking back aft along the shot line, a F-14D that was being launched off the cat FOD'ed its motor right next to me creating a huge shower of sparks that really lit up the deck in that area. It was kind of spectacular but it made me wonder what the heck we were doing out there. The Tomcat ended up diverting to NAS Oceana. We had a mission which justified the risks. About a month later we were putting warheads on foreheads in Iraq.

 

I want to know how carrier captains (sea boss) manages the operations with air boss. I've been thinking of long deployments, even long haul missions (ferry, if you like), the carrier launches aircrafts and conducts exercises normally in calm seas, but what if the seas are shit and there is high tide and the boat is rocking like crazy and there are aircrafts inbound or short on fuel? what do they do? do they, like:

 

Tides mean nothing to a carrier conducting flight operations on the open ocean. The only times tides affect operations of a carrier are when transiting restricted waters due to the draft of the hull. I have seen flight schedules cancelled for weather on many occasions due to the risks outweighing the rewards of completing the schedule. If we have jets airborne and the weather turns to sh!t we will either a) divert them to the closest friendly/allied divert base which is pre-specified during the initial briefing for the flight or b) if conducting blue water op's we will recover them aboard the boat. Blue water operations are a certification the ship and air wing achieve during workups to deployment and is one of the last qualification achieved prior to being declared combat ready. We call the work up cycle this is achieved in COMTUEX which is then followed up immediately by JTFX. After that the battle group is declared deployable and is on call to go at any moment.

 

hey air boss, the waves are high, we might need to vector these into nearest mainland

 

See above. Highly dependent on the situation.

 

hey air boss, we got a C-130 (fictional) inbound with supplies and we need to head into calm seas for landing that bugger.

 

how do they manage it?

 

To operate an aircraft that is as large as a C-130 (I know you said fictional and C-130 size aircraft have never regularly operated from carriers) yes you will need calm seas and a completely clear flight deck. The lack of a tail hook, associated landing aid's and enough accessible tie down points to safely secure a C-130 would require relatively calm seas. For something more realistic, such as a C-2 Greyhound, operations in stormy conditions will be dependent on how critical the cargo being transported is and it will be the call of the battle group commander (read:Admiral) or higher to authorize such a flight. When flying personnel and supplies to and from the carrier on routine operations the C-2's will only operate in daylight and in relatively good weather.

 

 

ok here is another one:

 

do carriers have ANYTHING on the flight deck during rough seas? personnel? equipment? etc?? Are those things (if available), secured? anchored? moored?

 

Yes, there is nowhere near enough room on the hangar deck of a carrier to strike the entire air wing below. We will fit as many aircraft as we can in the hangar bay and every aircraft aboard the boat will receive heavy weather tie down which (depending on the TMS) will have 18+ TD-1A/B tie down chains. The aircraft remaining on the flight deck will be spotted in Fly-2 and Fly-3 (aft of the Nav-pole and crotch and all the way to the stern). Personnel will not be allowed on the weather decks (decks and catwalks exposed to the outside elements) during adverse weather conditions. When I was on the Kitty Hawk in 2000 we went through a storm with high waves and my shop, located on the sponson forward of elevator 1, received several epic wave slaps that ended up knocking a TV and its mount off the overhead to which it was welded on to. We were sitting in the shop just sort of feeling the ship heaving to and fro when out of nowhere there is a huge jolt and associated BOOM when the wave hit the side and threw tool boxes around, slammed drawers open in an instant and the TV fell to the deck narrowly missing one of my buddy's. In 2006 on the TR we were trans-lanting home through a lot of really rough weather that knocked several sections of the catwalk off on the port side. Heavy storms are kind of fun to ride out on a big ship. A buddy of mine who was HSL for a time tells me on a small ship such as a frigate or destroyer you are literally walking on the bulkheads while transiting the passageways and you have to strap yourself in your bunk to keep from falling to the deck.

 

I've seen those drain holes on the flight deck and think maybe a towing truck can be bolted down by ropes (maybe) to these drain holes scattered around the deck.

 

The "drain holes" are not really drain holes. We call them pad eyes and they are specifically used to secure aircraft and SE to the deck. All aircraft and SE when not in use are secured to the deck with tie down chains to keep them from rolling around and causing damage regardless of the weather. I have seen rogue waves appear out of nowhere in good weather and flat seas to give the carrier a good roll.

 

Edit: what if meterologists on board get spiked by unexpected weather? or what if their predictions are wrong or severely off accurate (nevermind the part they are punitively handled please and the sheer amount of frowny faces they'll run into during the turn of events).

 

I'm not an AG so I can't comment on the repercussions of a less than accurate weather report.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Vampyre

[XtraChrisP]

Great info! Thanks for your input. It's always really cool when a SME shows up

[SNAFU]

And how is that with resupplying a CV in rough seas?

 

I have been on the North Atlantic in gale winds lasting over 5 days (container and bulker vessels only and I can confirm it`s NOT fun ;) ), I assume the fleets will need to be resupplied by ship-to-ship transfer more often?

 

At least that would be the point where I assume the Master of an supply vessel to shit his pants, if he has to keep steady parallel course with a CV in rough seas, while transferring fuel and supplies...

[joey45]

[WildBillKelsoe]

wow... the first 2 PBS videos really closed the case... So in my opinion navy pilots are the toughest living people on the planet

 

EDIT:

 

thanks Vampyre for the more than informative answers.

Edited March 13, 2014 by WildBillKelsoe

[Vampyre]

And how is that with resupplying a CV in rough seas?

 

I have been on the North Atlantic in gale winds lasting over 5 days (container and bulker vessels only and I can confirm it`s NOT fun ;) ), I assume the fleets will need to be resupplied by ship-to-ship transfer more often?

 

At least that would be the point where I assume the Master of an supply vessel to shit his pants, if he has to keep steady parallel course with a CV in rough seas, while transferring fuel and supplies...

 

The last time I saw underway replenishment undertaken in anything but ideal conditions was in 2001. It usually doesn't matter because we will have enough supplies to last several weeks before we will need to resupply and storms usually don't last that long. Exceptions have been made in the past due to operational commitment. I wonder what I did with that video...

 

Your welcome WildBillKelsoe

[SDsc0rch]

c-130 on a carrier (forrestal, no less!)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C130-Forrestal.jpg

 

!!!

 

i was stationed on a carrier - stood bridge watch - the CO doesn't sh!t his pants, he was verrrry calm - nothing got him high and right (well, practically nothing - there was that "one" incident..lol)

 

as for weax.. we just look at the satellite pix and drive to clear skies

 

a carrier actually handles heavy seas better than the small boys - sure, they'll canx flt ops but the carrier will span 3-4 seas along its entire length

 

a bullheaded 1-star actually got reprimanded for taking his ARG through heavy weather and having some gear get damaged - he wouldn't change course for the weather and.. yeah

 

unreps? they're done in decent weather - but, they are also done at night ---- during the cold war the battle group would be spread out - you couldn't see the other ships (we were hiding from the russkie sattelites/recon bombers) - and at night we'd all come together under cover of darkness to unrep

[leafer]

 

Goodness gracious they're so polite!