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AFM system difference: F-15C vs Su-25(T)


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I found many difference of the AFM system between F-15C & Su-25(T):

 

1. you must notice that each time enter 15C cockpit, there is a heavy jitter. But none for Su-25(T)

 

2. Su-25(t) needs power up (rshift+L) while 15C doesn't.

 

3. 15C has to start engine one by one (rshift+Home can start single engine), while rshift+home works fine for Su-25(t)

 

4. taxi jitter of 15C seems greater than Su-25(t)

 

any more?

 

personally,

I would like su-25(t) has engine startup limitation like 15C, larger taxi jetter (hud jitter?)

I also prefer 15C has power up for avionic system, no camera jitter when enter cockpit.

(I think that 15C starts several inches above the ground, then dropping to ground causes the shake)

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A power switch would be nice in the Eagle aswel.

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Finally! The HUD jitter should be modeled in every DCS aircraft. Don't hold your breath and let your HUD jitter! :D

 

Seriously, since I saw it in DCS A-10C, I asked that this feature be implemented for Ka-50.

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I bet we have a clickable cockpit before the summer is over.

 

I'll take that bet. ;)

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Also...how delicate is the landing gear of the F-15C? I understand that russian aircraft have a very robust gear....made for the field, but I can land the su25, t toad, A-10C, but whenever I land the F-15C, the gear gets busted...."both opposite gears face inwards"

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Also...how delicate is the landing gear of the F-15C? I understand that russian aircraft have a very robust gear....made for the field, but I can land the su25, t toad, A-10C, but whenever I land the F-15C, the gear gets busted...."both opposite gears face inwards"

 

Just have to set it down gently, I landed it a few times already without any problems. Not to toot my own horn however.

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Russian aircraft have about as robust landing gear as everything else. What's the descent rate you have at touch down? Check your VVI in a track replay.

 

If it's more than 500fpm, you're playing with fire. 500fpm is over 8 feet every second, and that's quite a drop. You should be landing with 200-300.

 

And like mentioned above, weight plays a role: Landing your 60000lbs eagle at 200fpm puts the same strain on the landing gear as landing a 30000lbs eagle at 400fpm, more or less (it might not be linear).

 

Also...how delicate is the landing gear of the F-15C? I understand that russian aircraft have a very robust gear....made for the field, but I can land the su25, t toad, A-10C, but whenever I land the F-15C, the gear gets busted...."both opposite gears face inwards"

Edited by GGTharos

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Russian aircraft are designed to take off from the fields,leveled by construction machines.One of the measurement in the case of the nuclear war and airports destructions.There are many videos at you tube with MiG 21 and MiG 29 taking of from the field.Thats why MiG 29 has grid at uper side air intakes.During the taking off,main intakes are closed,to prevent that rocks enter in to the engine during take off from fields.

 

Best practise for "soft" Landing is to practise landing with full Su 25T,full tank and full weapons.If you can land full Su 25T,you can land F15 with no problem.:)

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Also...how delicate is the landing gear of the F-15C? I understand that russian aircraft have a very robust gear....made for the field, but I can land the su25, t toad, A-10C, but whenever I land the F-15C, the gear gets busted...."both opposite gears face inwards"

 

Put the runway threshold at three degrees down on the pitch ladder, put the FPM on the threshold, and keep the AoA indicator on the HUD at 10 degrees. Voila—an approach that won't break the Eagle's gear. Flare gently to finish it off. It's worked for me every time.

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Thanks for advice guys...yeah getting the hang of it...but sometimes staring at aoa too long means I overshoot on speed. But a lot of fun nonetheless.

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Thanks for advice guys...yeah getting the hang of it...but sometimes staring at aoa too long means I overshoot on speed. But a lot of fun nonetheless.

 

If you're flying the proper AoA for landing, your speed doesn't matter. Just fly whatever speed gives you the correct AoA.

 

Wait, or do you mean that it's hard to keep the speed constant when you're focusing on AoA? I have that same problem. :)

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If you're flying the proper AoA for landing, your speed doesn't matter. Just fly whatever speed gives you the correct AoA.

 

Wait, or do you mean that it's hard to keep the speed constant when you're focusing on AoA? I have that same problem. :)

 

Yup... hard to keep the speed constant and I suck at maintaining the right altitude... so at last moment...i feel I am either too high or too low... drastic correction and I basically bounce or bust my landing gear. Lol

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Yup... hard to keep the speed constant and I suck at maintaining the right altitude... so at last moment...i feel I am either too high or too low... drastic correction and I basically bounce or bust my landing gear. Lol

 

Make crude approach, slow down, put velocity vector on the beginning of runway, then check your AoA. If it is below 20 units (HUD still shows in degrees), throttle down and rise the nose. AoA will increase, but velocity vector will stay on the beginning of runway. You don't need precision here, because you will have enough time to correct. If AoA is correct and velocity vector is more or less on the beginning of runway - you are set. Further you only need to keep the AoA (basically you will be just holding the stick) and operate the throttle: throttle up if velocity vector creeps down; throttle down, if velocity vector creeps up. This will eventually end with you flying at correct AoA and speed over the beginning of runway. However, you still need to flare (rise AoA briefly to lower vertical speed) just before the touchdown if you are heavy.

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Finally! The HUD jitter should be modeled in every DCS aircraft. Don't hold your breath and let your HUD jitter! :D

 

Seriously, since I saw it in DCS A-10C, I asked that this feature be implemented for Ka-50.

 

What is HUD jitter exactly ? I have the A-10C but I never noticed anything different from other aircrafts with its HUD.

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Would like to add.. then if you have the p51 module go through the training for landing.. It's pretty damn good.. if you learn to land the p51 you can land anything else with out issues.

 

I've had just 2 bad landings in the F-15. The first one that while the landing was technically good, stopping was drastically different and I ran out of runway. Then there was the first one after setting up the brake axis on my pedals, and forgetting to invert them. I did take the TF-51D for a spin and had a decent landing first try.

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I wasn't blaming the sim/afm, this was me just trying out the AFM landing for the first time, and realizing a collection of different things for the first time compared to the SFM. I wasn't crazy fast, but I knew I was faster would have liked to have been. The difference in effectiveness of the air brake at low speed probably left me about 30knots faster over the threshold than I would have been with the SFM. There is so much to be appreciated about the F-15 not wanting to bleed speed for a change. There will be more merges in my future.

 

Havent tried the tf-51..

 

How ever if you ran out of runway that would have been due to a bad approach. You were either to fast or too high or both resulting in touch down too far past the thresh hold. I'm not trying to be a jerk but the thing is that before the afm a few versions ago people were complaining about the f15 gear collapsing. While the gear was a bit "weak" I was able to land 90% of the time with out any issues. What I found by observing many others that collapsed the gear was because they just pushed the plane onto the deck or a high sink rate due to idle power. I observed no one doing any proper landings. It was always "hey there is the runway I'm landing and im going 350+kts so Ill pitch down deploy air brake flaps and gear.. Ohh now Im 400f ft off the deck 250 kts and just before the run way. Power to idle push down again. 50ft off the deck and 200kts way past the threshold time to flare. 500fpm decent rate rapid loss of airspeed. touch down crash! OMG THIS GEAR IS GLASS"

 

I would say if people would stop trying to do 5-10 mile straight in downwind finals there would be a lot less "crashes". Doing traffic patterns and not rushing a landing will help people. That and actuly doing a flare instead of just flying the plane into the tarmac..

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4. ..1,000 ft agl and 250-200kts.

5. abeam the threshold deploy GEAR and flaps and maintain 180-200kts with a slight decent.

8. Control descent rate so that the runway position does not move on your windscreen. Glide slope is more important than touchdown position at first. 3.5 degrees is the norm, but can change depending on the approach.

9. Use a combination of throttle and pitch to control airspeed and altitude. Keep in mind that this is a high performance jet. Small changes in pitch will drastically change your descent profile, and small changes in throttle will drastically change your speed. keep the tvv on the threshold and an AOA of about 20-22 units until you reach the threshold.

10. once runway is made power smoothly to idle (as necessary).

11. at around 10-15ft agl start flaring flightly untill tuch down. Limit flare attitude to no more than 15 degrees. Your aircraft should smoothly settle down to the ground.

12 once on the ground, keep your nose attitude to around 13 - 15 degrees nose high for aerobraking. This is effective to around 90 kts.

13. Let nose drop slowly, and apply braking. Do not brake the aircraft while the nose is in the air. This is to prevent slamming of the nose gear due to sudden loss of lift.

 

Just some small corrections and additional considerations.

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