#04 - MINI-UPDATE & COLD STARTUP

[Muppetlord]

Who said you have to wait half a year?

 

We haven't set any dates apart from March the 28th.

The situation is as it is; but we can't change it. Things are moving along on this final phase, not much more can be noted really.

 

@Everyone: Don't freak out just because ED is creating an interim patch specifically for the F-86!!

 

Well six months may have been an overstatement, but I got the impression that you wouldn't release until 1.3.0 is out and it seems there is still a few months left until it's out. Maybe I've got it all wrong, I don't know.

[Cobra847]

That is a very interesting perspective that you only set ONE release date, MAY-JUN 2014 IS a release date because if by the end of JUNE you haven't released you have missed your release date.

 

To put it into perspective, if you bought a car and the dealer told you we will have to you in May or June and it is now the 13th of July, I would bet all the money I have you would say that the dealer did not make his date that he gave you.

 

Now having said that, I fully understand WHY you didn't make your release dates.

 

I think what is upsetting a fair number of people is that you guys said , you were releasing with 1.2.8 and that appears not to be true anymore even though you said that integration is what was holding you up and now it looks like 1.2.8 integration has stopped and you guys have moved on to 1.3.0 (which means it could be quite a while till release).

 

And of course once again you have said "What till you guys see what we have in store", yet we rarely see WHAT YOU HAVE IN STORE. you released 1 video (and it was great) a week ago, and we were told another video was coming, and still nothing on that front either.

 

So right now I will make my own prediction:

 

MIG-21 release date will be Sep 24th. Lets see how close I am.

 

To quote myself, again.

 

The date range featured on our site was an Estimate based on projected time for development conclusion. It was kept vague, but still fairly specific to give you all a DECENT IDEA.

We'd rather you be kept in the loop as best we can, but please don't abuse this. We should've made it more clear that it was an estimate.

 

We never said we'll release on 1.2.8.

We said 1.2.8 was the target version for release.

 

And yes -- 1.3.0 is looking more likely at the moment, unless we release with a 1.2.9 point release.

 

And of course once again you have said "What till you guys see what we have in store", yet we rarely see WHAT YOU HAVE IN STORE. you released 1 video (and it was great) a week ago, and we were told another video was coming, and still nothing on that front either.

 

You have two videos at this point, dozens of screenshots, screenshots of the arming interface, and tons of various info all over the place.

 

It's been a week. Another video is in the works, but I'm certainly not going to excuse myself for it not being available yet. I have a million other tasks related to development or management on my plate; that should be obvious by now.

It was made perfectly clear when to expect more videos:

 

I'll butter myself up and dig out my film lights ASAP.

 

Video ETA; probably before the end of the week, possibly early next, and possibly later. As soon as I am able.

 

This is getting tedious.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Cobra847

[NeilWillis]

That is a very interesting perspective that you only set ONE release date, MAY-JUN 2014 IS a release date because if by the end of JUNE you haven't released you have missed your release date.

 

To put it into perspective, if you bought a car and the dealer told you we will have to you in May or June and it is now the 13th of July, I would bet all the money I have you would say that the dealer did not make his date that he gave you.

 

Now having said that, I fully understand WHY you didn't make your release dates.

 

I think what is upsetting a fair number of people is that you guys said , you were releasing with 1.2.8 and that appears not to be true anymore even though you said that integration is what was holding you up and now it looks like 1.2.8 integration has stopped and you guys have moved on to 1.3.0 (which means it could be quite a while till release).

 

And of course once again you have said "What till you guys see what we have in store", yet we rarely see WHAT YOU HAVE IN STORE. you released 1 video (and it was great) a week ago, and we were told another video was coming, and still nothing on that front either.

 

So right now I will make my own prediction:

 

MIG-21 release date will be Sep 24th. Lets see how close I am.

 

So who made you judge jury and executioner today?

 

Do you want a professionally produced, polished, and complete module, or would you prefer it right now, and incomplete? Don't bother answering that, it was a rhetorical question!

 

The fact is, creating a work of art doesn't happen by accident, and it always throws up unexpected delays. Don't forget, that this project is also subject to DCS implementing changes to the host program that will inevitably affect the plug in modules too. Not everything is as simple as black and white. You clearly fail to appreciate that when you talk about promised release dates. You'll know when it'll be releaased cuz it'll appear for sale on the website.

 

What forfeit will you be making when your prediction goes the way of all the other speculation? Or shall we all just start to post whinges here saying how terrible it is that you were wrong? Maybe including pointless analogies comparing your lack of insight to the sale of a car? Or do you think it might be better if we gave you the benefit of the doubt? Shame you can't extend that courtesy to others isn't it!

Edited July 13, 2014 by NeilWillis

[Mode1961]

"#2 -- We never said we'll release on 1.2.8.

We said 1.2.8 was the target version for release."

 

I am sorry to say but that is a difference without a disctinction

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinction_without_a_difference

 

 

Then again, so is the May-Jun 'release date'. May - Jun is an estimate and if you had released within May-Jun then you would be perfectly right in saying it was an estimate and you never missed it BUT when you aren't released in JULY, you missed it.

[Mode1961]

So who made you judge jury and executioner today?

 

Do you want a professionally produced, polished, and complete module, or would you prefer it right now, and incomplete? Don't bother answering that, it was a rhetorical question!

 

The fact is, creating a work of art doesn't happen by accident, and it always throws up unexpected delays. Don't forget, that this project is also subject to DCS implementing changes to the host program that will inevitably affect the plug in modules too. Not everything is as simple as black and white. You clearly fail to appreciate that when you talk about promised release dates. You'll know when it'll be releaased cuz it'll appear for sale on the website.

 

What forfeit will you be making when your prediction goes the way of all the other speculation? Or shall we all just start to post whinges here saying how terrible it is that you were wrong?

 

Except they have said the MODULE IS COMPLETED.

 

I understand ALL ABOUT DELAYS, I am a software developer in my day job. BUT frankly I would have fired if I made the estimations these guys have made and missed them but this much.

 

In parting I will quote Cobra "Soon is exactly the timeframe we are looking at for release", quoted from last july. Almost a year ago.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Mode1961

[NeilWillis]

Can you find the quote where Cobra said the module was complete?

 

Clearly you understand very little about software integration, and the complexities involved.

 

Maybe you have a definition of soon that differs from the accepted meaning? It is vague, as all of Cobra's predictions have been. There is a very good reason for that. He, like me, and probably the rest of the forum lacks a reliable crystal ball!

 

End of conversation as far as I'm concerned. There is nothing more to add.

[Cobra847]

Except they have said the MODULE IS COMPLETED.

 

I understand ALL ABOUT DELAYS, I am a software developer in my day job. BUT frankly I would have fired if I made the estimations these guys have made and missed them but this much.

 

In parting I will quote Cobra "Soon is exactly the timeframe we are looking at for release", quoted from last july. Almost a year ago.

 

The module is complete, but many of the auxiliary tasks are not (core integration, store integration, QC testing, ED internal testing, and recently 1.3.0 integration).

 

My intention with noting that 1.2.8 is the target was just that; target.

I did not realize it would come across as an assertion that we would release on that particular version.

If that was the commonly held belief, then I apologize.

 

As for the quote; I take full responsibility; but that was the genuine feeling at the time. Standards and goals changed significantly since that time, however.

 

 

In any case; it's a discussion that runs in circles around itself. When we know exactly when we will release; we will scream it from the heavens.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Cobra847

[MrRogers]

Man I love this forum. It brings out the absolute best in keyboard debate and warriorship lol. Guys we have the facts. Lets leave LN alone for a bit and go pester someone else....like....um.....well shoot!

 

Can't wait for your release gentlemen!

[ericoh]

Who said you have to wait half a year?

 

We haven't set any dates apart from March the 28th.

The situation is as it is; but we can't change it. Things are moving along on this final phase, not much more can be noted really.

 

@Everyone: Don't freak out just because ED is creating an interim patch specifically for the F-86!!

 

Leatherneck website stated "may-june".

 

P.S.: The website still says that, you might wanna change that.

Edited July 13, 2014 by ericoh

[statrekmike]

Again Cobra, I appreciate your posts here and I can understand that this is very frustrating for you and the team since a lot of this is out of your direct control, still, the reason you are getting such heated comments is because all of us are looking forward to this plane a great deal, most of us have stuck with this project through some pretty hard times and now that we are so close to release, the excitement is understandable.

 

Still, as I said before, we as the consumer/fan-base don't really know what is going on at all, the release dates of everything DCS related is always in a state of flux (with some exceptions) and that can make being on the fan-base side a bit frustrating, especially when big news happens (like the upcoming release of 1.2.9) that makes us all re-evaluate where various modules stand.

 

The big thing here is uncertainty, again, we don't know what is going on with ED's choices or Leatherneck's, it is hard for us to know that we are so close and yet still not really know anything at all.

 

I know nobody asked for my advice on this but I still honestly think that a post that gives us the whole situation as it stands right now would be best, I mean, as it stands, the MiG could come in 1.3.0 or even 1.2.9 and that has the unfortunate side-effect of meaning that a lot of us are going to be hoping for a 1.2.9 release but perhaps if we had a more realistic understanding of the entire situation (at least as much as Leatherneck can reasonably tell us), it would help us temper our hopes and expectations with reality.

[Cobra847]

Again Cobra, I appreciate your posts here and I can understand that this is very frustrating for you and the team since a lot of this is out of your direct control, still, the reason you are getting such heated comments is because all of us are looking forward to this plane a great deal, most of us have stuck with this project through some pretty hard times and now that we are so close to release, the excitement is understandable.

 

Still, as I said before, we as the consumer/fan-base don't really know what is going on at all, the release dates of everything DCS related is always in a state of flux (with some exceptions) and that can make being on the fan-base side a bit frustrating, especially when big news happens (like the upcoming release of 1.2.9) that makes us all re-evaluate where various modules stand.

 

The big thing here is uncertainty, again, we don't know what is going on with ED's choices or Leatherneck's, it is hard for us to know that we are so close and yet still not really know anything at all.

 

I know nobody asked for my advice on this but I still honestly think that a post that gives us the whole situation as it stands right now would be best, I mean, as it stands, the MiG could come in 1.3.0 or even 1.2.9 and that has the unfortunate side-effect of meaning that a lot of us are going to be hoping for a 1.2.9 release but perhaps if we had a more realistic understanding of the entire situation (at least as much as Leatherneck can reasonably tell us), it would help us temper our hopes and expectations with reality.

 

Hey Mike,

 

No worries, I understand the frustration and wanting to have clear and concise info -- and I appreciate your posts.

If I had a date that we know we will release on right this very moment I'd post it immediately. It's just that it's still in a state of flux, and we're still dealing with things that are important to ensure a smooth release.

 

I can note that we're working together with ED to get things in order and get the ball across the finish line.

 

In the near term, look towards the new video, more indepth info, and new EDGE screenshots. It looks glorious! :)

 

Cheers,

Nick

[JG-1_Vogel]

Right now I can't help but feel like a fly mesmerised by those blue glow lamps. "Stop throwing your money at the screen! It won't work!" "I can't help it... it's so beautiful!".

 

Amazing stuff guys, I really really really really REALLY can't wait to get my hands on this. The attention to detail is just amazing. Can't wait to toast the first fast jet to grace DCS's skies!

[scaflight]

It's just that it's still in a state of flux,

 

I think some of us want to know how much flux? :)

[statrekmike]

I think some of us want to know how much flux? :)

 

 

I think this is actually a pretty good question, it would clear some things up at least.

[ff4life4]

Well apparently AvioDev is done with their module and is sending it to ED test team. So Hawk, Mig, Sabre, 190, C-101 is all on the table currently. Going to be interesting to see the result of all of this.

 

 

Edit: I feel they may have potentially lost some sales by not getting it out earlier. Had they done it end of June, they would have been first in the market and everyone would have been desperate to purchase it. But now with Sabre being herexposed within a week or two, and the other aircraft releases, I feel the average person may no longer have interest in Mig 21.

 

I hope I'm wrong

Edited July 13, 2014 by ff4life4

[Buzzles]

[snip] I feel the average person may no longer have interest in Mig 21.

 

I hope I'm wrong

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you probably are (in a nice way).

 

Despite the lovely glut of aircraft we're about to get, the Mig is not only the most modern of the non-trainers, but it's the only supersonic fast jet.

People have been clamouring for a fast mover for a long time now. It's going to sell.

 

Quite frankly:

[uboats]

Hey Mike,

 

In the near term, look towards the new video, more indepth info, and new EDGE screenshots. It looks glorious! :)

 

Do we have chance to see either video or screenshot in EDGE next week (Jul14-Jul20)?

[Need-To-Know]

While I love the idea of the Sabre, and really thought I did not have much interest in a Mig21, after watching the video and reading Cobra's post, I have totally changed my mind.

 

I like detailed aircraft in my sim. No Flaming Cliffs arcade stuff for me. This looks to be the real gem of the DCS aircraft.

 

While I thought it would not happen I now say: "Рад тебя видеть - Comrade"

Edited July 13, 2014 by Need-To-Know
spelling

[NeilWillis]

I think some of us want to know how much flux? :)

 

Ifr you think about it, it is fairly straightforward. LN are waiting for ED to get their ducks in a row with integration, LN then have to merge that information into their code, and there are several outstanding issues to be resolved which are important to the smooth release of the MiG21Bis, as well as other products.

 

Think of the situation as a light switch. Light switch ON, product release, Light switch off, no product release.

 

Right now, it's all dark, but as soon as the light switch is moved to the on position, there will be light flooding the whole forum.

 

(I guess I just had to do the whole analogy bit sometime)

 

Anything else need discussing?

[blackbelter]

Ifr you think about it, it is fairly straightforward. LN are waiting for ED to get their ducks in a row with integration, LN then have to merge that information into their code, and there are several outstanding issues to be resolved which are important to the smooth release of the MiG21Bis, as well as other products.

 

Think of the situation as a light switch. Light switch ON, product release, Light switch off, no product release.

 

Right now, it's all dark, but as soon as the light switch is moved to the on position, there will be light flooding the whole forum.

 

(I guess I just had to do the whole analogy bit sometime)

 

Anything else need discussing?

 

To me, all the discussion here, be it complain (so called whining) or compliment, is just people relieving their anxiety while waiting for the release... No need to take it at the face value.

 

No matter what the devs say, people will always want more information... There will always be something to be discussed.

 

IMHO the devs should be happy even though they are being virtually beaten up. The more beaten up, the happier they should be (sounds a bit weird doesn't it :D), because that means more sales upon release.

Edited July 14, 2014 by blackbelter

[Eddie2A]

In two weeks... :pilotfly:

[Kuky]

I give it another month :) (just my speculation)

[Alicatt]

I give it another month :) (just my speculation)

Don't you mean 3 to 4 weeks :music_whistling:

:lol:

[Kuky]

Don't you mean 3 to 4 weeks :music_whistling:

:lol:

 

no... that would be 21-28 days... I am thinking more like 31 days :music_whistling:

 

:thumbup:

[Muppetlord]

no... that would be 21-28 days... I am thinking more like 31 days :music_whistling:

 

:thumbup:

 

I guess we'd be lucky if it was that soon.