DCS WWII: 1944 FAQ Discussion

[msalama]

ED and DCS never more

 

Right, nothing wrong with that. Although if you want a refund, please take that up with KS & RRG & we'll see how that goes.

 

Report back though.

[SkateZilla]

Im gonna try to put this nicely, and appeal to both camps.

 

On Kickstarter, When You Back a Project, You're not Buying the Rewards for your Tier, You're given those rewards for backing.

 

It's not a E-Shop, You dont find a project and purchase items through backing the project, You Invest in the project and the items are given to you as rewards for doing so.

 

So For example, if you Backed $40,

You gave $40 to the development of the Project as a whole, and the rewards are rewards for backing.

 

The Rewards even during the active kickstarter campaign changed on almost a weekly basis IIRC, that was a sign that the rewards were not properly planned to begin with.

 

I Must say, I was hesitant to even back the project as I felt like I was ripping off ED (4 NEW DCS Quality Aircraft for $20/$5 Each)

 

I Understand there are users frustrated with going from $40 and 5 planes to $40 and 2 Planes. $20 for 1, etc

 

But other than the fact that the rewards changed, How can you be upset with 2 PFM/ASM Airframes And The Normandy Map for $40? That's the Same Price as One Airframe for WWII Right now, and $10 Cheaper than the Planned Retail Price for the New Aircraft.

 

Or 1 Aircraft + Map for $20 (that's basically free map + 60% off a New Module).

 

I know the frustrated users are upset,

But to repeatedly post how upset you are in every thread opened regarding the rewards restructure, while trying to point fingers is becoming a problem. You can maturely voice your dis-pleasure all you want. But this is not the place to try and point fingers, especially since details that led to ED Taking over the project are not public knowledge and never will be.

 

I dont want to see you guys leave the community here, everyone is valuable to the community, no matter what they do, fly, paint, tune, tweak, 3d models, etc.

Edited July 11, 2014 by SkateZilla

[Demon_]

If i take a look in this page (it's well explained): https://www.kickstarter.com/trust?ref=foote

 

Kickstarter is not a store, they're helping to create, do a little researsh first, Kickstarter doesn't evaluate the project, but nothing's guaranteed...

Explore the project, read the comments, or past work you can look at ...

 

Creators can do: Be open, do your best to answer backers, quickly and thoroughly, give them a real look at the work...

 

I can conclude ED do what he can to maintain the project in life. :smartass: But it's only my opinion.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Demon_

[westr]

I thought perhaps its time to be more optimistic and discuss the project as it stands now, after all I think some are forgetting what potentially we could end up with if all goes according to plan. I noticed that we will no longer have a separate install for ww2, so is it likely it will just be a case of having ww2 missions listed under missions for each aircraft. And switching to the ww2 map in the mission editor will be how we access ww2?

[OverDhill]

Well I for one will be happy to get 2 planes and a map for $40. Stuff happens in this business and the alternative is that we could have gotten nothing. I highly doubt ED is going to get rich off this so I highly doubt there was any misleading intentions from the beginning. This is a very small and specialized market. I can't believe the things I have read coming from people who obviously have spent a great deal on hardware and software if they are at all serious with flight sims. Heck $40 will not get you anything in Waur Thunker..hahahaha

 

I applaud the comprise to be able to select two planes. Thanks ED

Edited July 11, 2014 by OverDhill

[Dalminar]

To all those who felt burned, in the future, when you make any investment decisions, particularly angel investments such as Kickstarter, you should always take a step back first and evaluate your emotions - your hopes and expectations, and always expect the worse. In other words, try to take as much emotion out of it as possible so you know all the facts, possible disastrous outcomes, and what you're getting into.

 

This piece of advice is a golden rule among financial asset traders, bankers, and other entrepreneurs, and must also be used with Kickstarter. If it is advice you cannot implement, then don't do Kickstarter. Just like not everyone is suitable to be a investment banker, not everyone is suitable to participate in Kickstarter. Like not everyone has the body to be a pro-athlete, not everyone has the risk tolerance and analysis skills to participate in Kickstarter. It's gonna be OK.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Dalminar

[Wichid]

The real thing worth discussing is what these new developers are going to work on after WWII is finished!?

 

DCS: WWI? DCS: 1969?

[cichlidfan]

The real thing worth discussing is what these new developers are going to work on after WWII is finished!?

 

DCS: WWI? DCS: 1969?

 

How about outstanding bugs?

[Wichid]

How about outstanding bugs?

 

For sure, but I was thinking of 3d modelers and flight modelers tasks...

[rubblebeam]

Luthier was no longer involved in the project.

Luthier was contracted to continue work on helping with some of the manuals

a touch contradictory don't you think?

 

Kickstarter funds covered a small amount (“drop in the bucket”) of total funds needed to successfully complete the products

They were never meant to complete the project

 

Q: ED is taking the assets of RRG and getting nothing but profits from this, off our money right?

A: No, ED has already assumed many costs associated with the project, the fact is all the Kickstarter money was spent before ED took over. While it is true that ED has recovered, or believed to have recovered all the assets, much work is left to be done, and a rough estimate of 10-15 percent of the project is actually completed, some of which was already funded by ED

Lets say the kickstarter funds covered 5% of 1 aircraft. That's 5% of work ED don't have to do. They're going to make a profit on those 5%

 

Q: ED was funding this project all along

A: No, not at all, no one knows where RRG was going to acquire the funding to satisfy its lofty goals, ED only got heavily invested when things started to go south.

June update

The vast majority of funds needed to finance this project have and will continue to come from Eagle Dynamics (not Kickstarter).

No offence sith but you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

 

Q: ED bought out RRG and all its assets right?

A: ED didn’t buy, acquire or takeover RRG. The details of how it all transferred may never be known, but what we do know is it appeared Luthier surrendered all the assets created with the Kickstarter money, and some of the employees were hired by ED to help continue the project as not to disrupt their other projects.

"The details of how it all transferred may never be known" So you don't really have an "A:"

 

Q: Why not just offer a refund?

A: Its complicated, but the short answer is this, The money was spent before ED stepped in, ED believes people want DCS WWII. They thought the best path was to make the project workable, and continue to develop it, in turn offering a realistic compromise on the reward structure

In other words they think they can make a profit from it.

 

Q: Why cant you refund the money and just make the project anyways

A: This would be an incredibly hard hit to the bank roll, it would be a big enough loss that the project would have to be scrapped. They are already expected to continue to fund the project, but adding an 150,000 hit right off the start. Well its too much.

Why not give a refund to those that want a refund. Not everybody wants a refund, some folk are happy with the restructuring. It's not going to add an extra 150k.

 

Q: I am not happy with my reward structure, why cant you give me more?

A: ED did its best to make the value the best it could, while still remaining profitable. They are still a business, and they have to protect that as well. They have been very open to reviewing and making changes so far.

"While still remaining profitable" says it all really.

 

I'm not trying to be funny but seriously!

[cichlidfan]

Lets say the kickstarter funds covered 5% of 1 aircraft. That's 5% of work ED don't have to do. They're going to make a profit on those 5%

 

Now you are just being silly.

[rubblebeam]

Now you are just being silly.

How so? They're doing this for profit. they're not going to make a loss

[ATAG_Bliss]

I can understand both sides of argument here, but at the end of the day, without someone else stepping in and taking the reigns, this project would have been lost.

 

Personally, I've bought every single DCS module that I know of just in the rare chance that someday the WWII front might get some loving. I've hardly played any of it tbh. But after the few hours I have flown in a P51 and an A10, just the fact that we get to have all that cockpit goodness, real procedures for everything, basically just flat out 1000% immersion for the 1st time in a WWII prop sim, is a dream come true.

 

So I pledged a bunch. I gave away a set of pedals to encourage others to do the same. If this would have been cancelled, I probably would have put all the gear in the closet for a while. So while my heart about stopped when I heard RRG was gone, the fact that someone else took charge and picked up the pieces, gave me a HUGE sigh of relief. So unless I'm living in another planet (I may be :D), just knowing this is going to come, I would have given a whole bunch more money just to make it happen.

 

Because if ED can get the core stuff right (MP, SP, Netcode, mission editor, sandbox for 3rd party and mission makers to create in, etc.,etc.,etc.,), topple on the most immersive cockpits and WWII combat flying you can do, the most accurate flight modelling, and then keep working on a plethora of other WWII goodies, not only will this project and DCS explode, people will be throwing their wallets at you for what's next.

 

So DX11, Quad SLI, some maps that are 100's of gigs in size, all in what appears to be an environment that actually appears to have LIFE and detail; just some of the goodies I've been hearing about EDGE.

 

How can any other WWII aviation enthusiast not be drooling at the opportunity? :joystick:

 

Well, that's just my take. I appreciate the further update Sith and those at ED who kept this going. :pilotfly:

[NineLine]

For sure, but I was thinking of 3d modelers and flight modelers tasks...

 

I think any 3D modelers on staff are going to be busy in Europe for a long while....

 

We need things like this still...

 

[NineLine]

No offence sith but you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

 

Hey Rubble... if ED is such a giant evil company, why are you still here? If I thought about ED like you did, I'd be long gone. I am more self respect, if someone is lying to me, cheating me, or whatever else you feel is going on... why stick around?

 

As for your comments, those are based on what we know and have heard, I am sorry you dont like it, but if you have better sources than us, feel free to tell us all about it... otherwise... you have said your peace.

[Paganus]

I thought perhaps its time to be more optimistic and discuss the project as it stands now, after all I think some are forgetting what potentially we could end up with if all goes according to plan. I noticed that we will no longer have a separate install for ww2, so is it likely it will just be a case of having ww2 missions listed under missions for each aircraft. And switching to the ww2 map in the mission editor will be how we access ww2?

 

^ this

 

I've posted somewhere before hoping ED can give the assets in mission editor GUI a filter system. This will become more important with more time period based assets. So you could check a couple of boxes and only get WW2 assets in the builder if that's what you wanted. They might be able to put all like types in big pools and replace things like the country file with filters. That would give the user full control over what they use and how they use it.

 

For user missions you download you are already able to create sub-folders inside the saved games\missions folder. I suspect ED will continue with their missions by aircraft.

[NineLine]

I am not sure they have any info on how the units will be handled, if its something that will be linked to the map or what... I will ask, but it might be early for them to share this yet... but these are the types of questions I really want to get to... lets get excited about WWII in DCS...

 

Pag, I also remember them hinting at different time states for maps as well, such as Normandy, before or after the Germans flooded fields... I would like to find out more about that as well...

[Flagrum]

My remarks in blue.

 

Luthier was no longer involved in the project.

Luthier was contracted to continue work on helping with some of the manuals

a touch contradictory don't you think?

Not necessarily. If he had collected and prepared all source information, it would just be the wise thing to make him completing the work he had begun. Losing the material and re-aquiring/researching would be probably quite costly.

Just because there is still work left to do does not imply that they are still or again all good friends ...

 

Kickstarter funds covered a small amount (“drop in the bucket”) of total funds needed to successfully complete the products

They were never meant to complete the project

 

Q: ED is taking the assets of RRG and getting nothing but profits from this, off our money right?

A: No, ED has already assumed many costs associated with the project, the fact is all the Kickstarter money was spent before ED took over. While it is true that ED has recovered, or believed to have recovered all the assets, much work is left to be done, and a rough estimate of 10-15 percent of the project is actually completed, some of which was already funded by ED

Lets say the kickstarter funds covered 5% of 1 aircraft. That's 5% of work ED don't have to do. They're going to make a profit on those 5%

Not necessarily. What if I say, those 5% would make their losses just a bit smaller?

 

Q: ED was funding this project all along

A: No, not at all, no one knows where RRG was going to acquire the funding to satisfy its lofty goals, ED only got heavily invested when things started to go south.

June update

The vast majority of funds needed to finance this project have and will continue to come from Eagle Dynamics (not Kickstarter).

No offence sith but you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

But you do?

Q: ED bought out RRG and all its assets right?

A: ED didn’t buy, acquire or takeover RRG. The details of how it all transferred may never be known, but what we do know is it appeared Luthier surrendered all the assets created with the Kickstarter money, and some of the employees were hired by ED to help continue the project as not to disrupt their other projects.

"The details of how it all transferred may never be known" So you don't really have an "A:"

"The details of how it all transferred may never be known" And from what IS known, there is no indication for assuming otherwise.

 

Q: Why not just offer a refund?

A: Its complicated, but the short answer is this, The money was spent before ED stepped in, ED believes people want DCS WWII. They thought the best path was to make the project workable, and continue to develop it, in turn offering a realistic compromise on the reward structure

In other words they think they can make a profit from it.

In other words, they think they can lessen their losses from it, but yeah, who would mind if a business company would make money ... to continue making business?

Q: Why cant you refund the money and just make the project anyways

A: This would be an incredibly hard hit to the bank roll, it would be a big enough loss that the project would have to be scrapped. They are already expected to continue to fund the project, but adding an 150,000 hit right off the start. Well its too much.

Why not give a refund to those that want a refund. Not everybody wants a refund, some folk are happy with the restructuring. It's not going to add an extra 150k.

Lets make 2500 individual agreements then. And those who insist, can get, hrm, a 100x100 pixel file from an livery or a 3d model of a nut or a bolt. Yes, I am hinting that there is no 150K to spread around. Where shall that money come from, today?

 

Q: I am not happy with my reward structure, why cant you give me more?

A: ED did its best to make the value the best it could, while still remaining profitable. They are still a business, and they have to protect that as well. They have been very open to reviewing and making changes so far.

"While still remaining profitable" says it all really.

For ****s sake, do you really expect a business company to perform harakiri? WHY the hell would anyone do that? "Making profit" just means "surviving, staying in business" ... is that concept so hard to grasp!?

 

I'm not trying to be funny but seriously!

Either way, you are certainly annoying. You don't have your own youtube channel, don't you?

[cichlidfan]

Either way, you are certainly annoying. You don't have your own youtube channel, don't you?.

 

:thumbup:

 

*must spread rep*

[Phantom453]

Hey Sith, noting this comment from Groove in the July update #2:

 

"It will take us some time to re-design the personal backers page, but we are on it."

 

I'm just wondering if there is some way of articulating which aircraft we would like? The reason being that with the Dora release being less than a month away (5 Aug 14) I would like to have it when it is released, but if I can't advise ED which five aircraft I want, how do I get a key for the Dora? Thanks.

[Flagrum]

Hey Sith, noting this comment from Groove in the July update #2:

 

"It will take us some time to re-design the personal backers page, but we are on it."

 

I'm just wondering if there is some way of articulating which aircraft we would like? The reason being that with the Dora release being less than a month away (5 Aug 14) I would like to have it when it is released, but if I can't advise ED which five aircraft I want, how do I get a key for the Dora? Thanks.

That is what the re-designed new personal backers page will be there for. Or do I not understand your question ...?

[Demon_]

He asks (stress) if the page will be available before the Dora release.

[NineLine]

I would hope it would be ready before then, but I do not know the timeline.

[NineLine]

Couple updates to the FAQ based on updates to the Restructure plan:

 

$1-$19 Backers reward updated

 

and clarification for those that received a P-51D key already from RRG

 

"If you received a P-51D key from RRG earlier, that will count as one of your aircraft choices."

[Demon_]

Wow! :notworthy: What a generosity from ED!

Don't forget we want (need) this sim to reach his goal.:juggle:

Edited July 12, 2014 by Demon_