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Mouse look tips


ceauke
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hi guys

 

Does anyone have some mouse-look tips for flying in DCS?

I'm brand new, have a throttle and stick but no pedal and no IR track or occulus.

 

I noticed in training missions (that I need to press ALT-C or something to invoke the mouse look and then press /toggle it again to allow cockpit clicks). But in a mission I have an addition red target 'cursor' and middle mouse opperates different from in training missions.

 

Any tips for optimizing this? Considering that I dont fly with the mouse, can't I use rightclick to invoke it? Why cant you look and click at the same time? Wont that be the best? Or am I missing something?

 

TLDR:

The following options are available for looking in the cockpit:

1. Mouse:

There are some ways to optimise mouse looking by running look and click mode simultaneously

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2186377&postcount=13

Or third button: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2186487&postcount=16

 

2. Joystick buttons and hat:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2185107&postcount=4

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2186354&postcount=11

3. Head tracking:

3.1 TrackIR

Probably the best considering you have to pay aroudn $150 for it

3.2 FacetrackNoIR

Open source (free), and works with webcam (on my laptop this is taking 24% of my i7 processor)

http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/home/default.htm

3.3 Freetrack

http://www.free-track.net/english/


Edited by ceauke
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hi guys

 

Does anyone have some mouse-look tips for flying in DCS?

I'm brand new, have a throttle and stick but no pedal and no IR track or occulus.

 

I noticed in training missions (that I need to press ALT-C or something to invoke the mouse look and then press /toggle it again to allow cockpit clicks). But in a mission I have an addition red target 'cursor' and middle mouse opperates different from in training missions.

 

Any tips for optimizing this? Considering that I dont fly with the mouse, can't I use rightclick to invoke it? Why cant you look and click at the same time? Wont that be the best? Or am I missing something?

That red target cursor is used by the so called "Cockpit Visual Recon Mode". Don't ask me - almost 3 years and I still have not really figgured out for what it is used for ... You can disable it under Options -> Gameplay.

 

Regarding your mouse look issues ... you can either look around with the mouse or you can click things with the mouse. That is just the way it is in DCS. You can not map a mouse button to toggle between both modes because left and right mouse buttons are used when operating switches or rotaries (one is "switch up", the other "switch down" or one is "turn clock wise" the other is "turn counter clock wise"). Other mouse buttons are not recognized by DCS - but you could figgure out how to use your mouse driver software to send a "LALT+C" to DCS for additional mouse buttons.

 

My advice, fwiw, invest in a TIR. Or wait a couple of months and get a Occulus Rift. Without the ability to "naturally" look around you are limiting your abilities and your sim experience in general BIG TIME. :o)

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I dont even know how people can fly these modules without TrackIR. I realize some cant afford it, my point is,, its unfortunate not to have it! Its worth not buying coffee for as long as it takes to save up for it,,,, sacrifice what you must! It is more than just worth it!

Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit / GIGABYTE 3866MHz GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 MOBO / Intel i7-6700K 4.0GHz Processor (OC to 4.Eight) / G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram / Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SATA III SSD / EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid/ Onboard Audio card / Creative Inspire 5.1 Surround Speakers /LG-Ultragear 38" IPS LED Ultrawide HD Monitor / Track IR4 / Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals / Virpil HOTAS

 

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I would recommend mapping your view look to the hat switch on your joystick. I've been playing like that for months because I don't have head tracking either, and once you get used to it it works pretty well. You'll have to tweak the sensitivity of the axis' until you find the right spot for you, but it's easy to do and the results are good. It should more than hold you over until you are able to get some real head tracking

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I dont even know how people can fly these modules without TrackIR. I realize some cant afford it, my point is,, its unfortunate not to have it! Its worth not buying coffee for as long as it takes to save up for it,,,, sacrifice what you must! It is more than just worth it!

 

TrackIR seems totally backwards to me. I would rather have a very short throw joystick. Or a multi-projector pod!!!

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Hey guys. Thanks for the advices.

Money is not really a factor but TIR is on v5 and I dont know how often there's something smarter. I dont want wires all over the place and gadgets on the screen. So I guess eventually I will do TIR (Sooner) or occulus (later), not both.

So I'm really looking for a solution for NOW. those jets wont fly themselves.

 

I'll try to map one of my joystick buttons to the ALT-C. But I will still need a third arm between throttle, stick and mouse. I have a saitek with enough buttons so maybe I can try and cockpit look with the hat, but that sounds a bit fiddly.

Work the mouse with the nose is really track IR. Sounds like that (TIR) is the most immediate solution.

Ah, the lady friend is going to have a field day with me "playing" with a hat now. *sigh*

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Track IR is not full of wires etc, its very simple. I am not clear as to what camsr means when he states that it seems to work backwards? You move your head a little left, you see left, it is a very natural process,,,, thats what I would suggest. Ive done the viewing with the hat switch prior to buying TrackIR, found it was adequate, right up to the point you needed to react to threats etc and you need to start looking around while you are pressing other keys,,, TrackIR made a world of difference!

Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit / GIGABYTE 3866MHz GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 MOBO / Intel i7-6700K 4.0GHz Processor (OC to 4.Eight) / G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB DDR4 3200 Ram / Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SATA III SSD / EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid/ Onboard Audio card / Creative Inspire 5.1 Surround Speakers /LG-Ultragear 38" IPS LED Ultrawide HD Monitor / Track IR4 / Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals / Virpil HOTAS

 

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In the mean time, when trying to look for trackIR reviews and comparisons I found Freetrack and FaceTrackNoIr.

FT and FTnoIR are great pieces of software, but they require some knowledge and research from the user. TrackIR is ready out of the box.

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In clickable cockpits I assign "Mouse toggle" to a button on the stick.

I program that button in my joystick software to toggle once for both the press and release actions.

That way the stick button works as a momentary toggle i.e. hold while clicking in the cockpit, release to return to mouselook.

 

It works well in my minimalistic setup, I have a stick with integrated throttle and twist grip for rudder.

If I had a separate throttle I'd go for TIR.


Edited by Snaut

MSI GTX 770 2GB -> 1920x1200, MSI H97M, Xeon 1231v3, 16GB

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In clickable cockpits I assign "Mouse toggle" to a button on the stick.

I program that button in my joystick software to toggle once for both the press and release actions.

That way the stick button works as a momentary toggle i.e. hold while clicking in the cockpit, release to return to mouselook.

 

It works well in my minimalistic setup, I have a stick with integrated throttle and twist grip for rudder.

If I had a separate throttle I'd go for TIR.

How did you do that? I did something similar using the browser backward (mouse 4) on my mouse but I'm using an AHK script for it. Maybe you have smarter solution?

i7 4790K: 4.8GHz, 1.328V (manual)

MSI GTX 970: 1,504MHz core, 1.250V, 8GHz memory

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And there is also a possibility of looking around by mouse and clicking switches at the same time:

 

open file "...\DCS World\Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\Cockpit\clickable_common.lua" and change

 

use_click_and_pan_mode = false to use_click_and_pan_mode = true and save - imho this should be in the Options menu in game as a check box!


Edited by Suchacz
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How did you do that? I did something similar using the browser backward (mouse 4) on my mouse but I'm using an AHK script for it. Maybe you have smarter solution?

 

Also scripting.

I used to use Saitek config editor but recently I switched to a small custom tool written in .Net that uses vJoy.

MSI GTX 770 2GB -> 1920x1200, MSI H97M, Xeon 1231v3, 16GB

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LALT + C isn't necessarily the only way to switch between mouselook and clicky mode.

 

If your mosue has a 3rd button (which almost all of them have, and tends to be just clicking on the scroll wheel), then all you need to do is to double click on said 3rd mouse button to switch between mouse look and clicking. That's how I use it, pretty quick way in my opinion.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s

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Thanks for all the responses. I never knew I had so many options to enhance the experience. I added the notes in the initial message. I guess I may have known about some of these if I read the DCS World manual.

Still dont know, still didn't read it :) but thanks for the tips

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I am not clear as to what camsr means when he states that it seems to work backwards? You move your head a little left, you see left, it is a very natural process

 

Seems to me that TrackIR and head tracking in general, forces the eyes to move in the opposite direction to the head, to simulate looking the direction the head moves. This will actually depend on the "azimuth?" of your computer display, as a very wide screen will have a larger angle. I would rather have screens in surround, to avoid this unnatural eye movement.

 

Does having only one monitor hinder my DCS experience? Only when I can play the thing without a CTD.

 

Oculus Rift seems like the only small scale solution to the eyes VS head thing, but I am sure it has it's drawbacks.

 

Unfortunately those sim pods cost a shitload of money. But they are the best thing for "natural" IMO.


Edited by camsr
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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello everyone. I'm newby on this forum. Have idea about little mouse look improvement.

I'll write it as it is based on the experience flights in DCS on mouse and joystick without any head tracking.

 

I tried more methods described in this thread:

 

1. Free mouse look with Alt-C - good, but uncomfortable in battle.

2. Double click middle mouse button to switch free look and clickable - absolutly uncomfortable. And it works unpredictable. One time works, and another time don't. I'm realy don't understand how it works.

3. Turn on the free mouse look and clickable both in config file - this mode uncomfortable too.

4. HeadtrackingNoIR require many CPU resources and works not perfect. But as idea - pretty nice.

 

Tried to find any solutions in DCS. Unfortunatelly could not.

 

I'm ask developers for little improvement:

 

1. Make work of switching mode like trigger - when I press assigned key I get free look, release and back to clickable cockpit. And possible to reverse this by pressing some key sequence - primary is clickable, press key and get free mouse look when key is holding pressed, release key and back to clickable.

 

2. Perfectly assign this key for fast switch modes on middle mouse button. Click and hold and you get free mouse look, release and back to clickable.

 

Sorry for lot of words.


Edited by carter74
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Yeah i have the same concern that IR trackers require looking side ways at the screen since the monitor does not move. how do people find playing like this?

 

It's really not a big issue. In my experience, it's actually way more uncomfortable moving the mouse while maneuvering. Thing is, if you have a normal sized widescreen display, you rarely ever turn your head really outside of the screen. Checking your 3 or 9 o'clock just means pointing your head at either left or right third of your display.

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I've always used mouse look from IL2 to DCS.

I don't see any disadvantage at using mouse in dogfight , except when i need to use throttle, i fast "jump" from mouse to throttle lever in my joystick, (so basically third arm would be nice :))

 

IMO best way is to map the joystick's (example) left hat switch to mouse clickaple mode (LAlt + C ) and the scroll wheel to use the "6Dof thing" and the zoom (if you have clickaple mouse wheel.)

 

Very simple to use and easy.

Only minus thing is the throttle proplem in the thrill of dogfight :)

 

And last who the heck uses joysticks hat switch to look around! i mean seriously! :D


Edited by kripzoo
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  • 3 weeks later...
And there is also a possibility of looking around by mouse and clicking switches at the same time:

 

open file "...\DCS World\Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\Cockpit\clickable_common.lua" and change

 

use_click_and_pan_mode = false to use_click_and_pan_mode = true and save - imho this should be in the Options menu in game as a check box!

 

Nice! I definitely need to try this, I wasn't aware.

 

I am completely HOMAS man :) I use 5buttons mouse MS IntelliMouse Optical. Two mouse buttons mapped as Ctrl and Shift. So together with joystick I can have a plenty of key combinations mouseCtrl+JoyButtnonX, mouseShift+JoyButtonX.... switching between looking/clicking with mouseCtrl+WheelButton.

 

One thing I am missing hard in DCS is possibility to map throttle to mouse wheel. ED pleeease! (I need to write to wish list :thumbup: ) I am operating throttle with joybuttons at the moment. Or is there any script-way to do this?

 

Anyway, if you look into Control Assignment menu and search for the possible mouse button assignments you will see it is very very very limited.

 

PS: this one should be perfect fit for HOMAS setup Logitech G300 Gaming Mouse (sooo many buttons) :)

Logitech_G300.jpg

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Get the TrackIR 5. You can wear a ball cap with the reflectors on the bill. I clip mine on with one of those small black paper clip binder things so the reflector doesn't fly off. I have the Pro Clip with LEDs, too, but don't use my headset at all anymore.

 

The curves are easy to adjust. And your head doesn't turn all that much.

 

If my TrackIR were to fail, I'd but another one right away -- I wouldn't fly w/o it.

 

WC

Visit the Hollo Pointe DCS World server -- an open server with a variety of COOP & H2H missions including Combined Arms. All released missions are available for free download, modification and public hosting, from my Wrecking Crew Projects site.

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