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Posted
You should have stopped right here. Having 4 cores does not make it double anything, unless you are counting the two cores that don't get used in the first place. :doh:

 

You missed my point while raising it yourself. The point is the game is only using 25% of the capacity of an utterly obsolete processor and the processor is the choke point. Do an 8 core processor and it will only use 12.5% capacity and still be CPU limited.

 

ED can't keep adding CPU intensive features to DCS unless they start utilizing more than 1 core. Single core performance hasn't improved much in the last 5-6 years, that's why both AMD and Intel shifted to simply adding more cores. We've reached the limit of what can be done here on a single core. AMD CPU's might as well be listed as incompatible with the absolute top of the line I3/I5/I7 (with no practical difference between them as far as DCS is concerned) as the recommended.

 

Hopefully the new graphics engine will lift a bit of the load off of the CPU and shift it to the GPU. But that won't really solve the main problem. The base code needs a facelift so that the game can continue to advance.

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Posted
Single core performance hasn't improved much in the last 5-6 years, that's why both AMD and Intel shifted to simply adding more cores. We've reached the limit of what can be done here on a single core.

 

While I agree with your fundamental point, I don't at all agree with this. Architecture does, and will, make a huge difference. I have a 2500k, and do you really mean to tell me that if I get a current gen 4-core I won't get a hell of a performance boost, clock-for-clock? Because I'm almost certain I will.

Win10 x64 | SSDs | i5 2500K @ 4.4 GHz | 16 GB RAM | GTX 970 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek pedals | TIR5

Posted

It's true they keep squeezing a little bit more out, but it isn't really that much compared to using another core. As an example, let's look at your I5 2500k and compare it to the current top of the line I5, the 4690k. Using passmark, the overall score of the 2500k is 6487 compared to the 4690k's 7767. Single thread performance is also very close, 1895 vs 2252. There is nearly 4 years of CPU development between the two. Not exactly a stellar improvement imho.

 

Edit: source http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=804&cmp[]=2284

Posted
Well, EDGE probably will run smoother; the current engine is outdated and inefficient as I understand it.

 

How the new maps run, however, is anybody's guess I suppose. Note that those are two different things.

 

Good point.

Windows 10 64bit, Intel i9-9900@5Ghz, 32 Gig RAM, MSI RTX 3080 TI, 2 TB SSD, 43" 2160p@1440p monitor.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
Let's be honest here, games like Battlefield aren't really in the same class as a simulator like DCS WORLD.

 

This last weekend I even gave up on ARMA3 because the helicopters are so dull compared to flying DCS Huey.

DCS WORLD simulates flight, no other software available to the public even comes close, in my opinion.

I've flown an official Boeing Super Hornet cockpit demonstrator sim, 2 minutes in I had a huge grin as I realised that DCS is so much better.

 

Dude... Are you for real??

Obviously, im not talking about the feeling you have ingame, im talking about performance and graphics :doh:

As BF4 has much better graphics than DCS, it would most often require a better GPU and CPU. My point were that im able to run BF4 at ultra settings fine, but DCS im limited to low/medium..

 

And no, its not about my CPU. DCS actually loads 99% of my GPU, and it want around 1.800 - 2.000MB of my VRAM... I also experiencing some memory leaks aswell after this latest patch. Sometimes the game even crashes because of the memory leak, and says that my system is running low on memory... And I have 8GB RAM, using ~1.5GB when surfing...

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
Dude... Are you for real??

Obviously, im not talking about the feeling you have ingame, im talking about performance and graphics :doh:

As BF4 has much better graphics than DCS, it would most often require a better GPU and CPU. My point were that im able to run BF4 at ultra settings fine, but DCS im limited to low/medium..

 

And no, its not about my CPU. DCS actually loads 99% of my GPU, and it want around 1.800 - 2.000MB of my VRAM... I also experiencing some memory leaks aswell after this latest patch. Sometimes the game even crashes because of the memory leak, and says that my system is running low on memory... And I have 8GB RAM, using ~1.5GB when surfing...

 

eh, DCS does massive calculations on the fly...

Posted

CPU would be best.

 

Watch

and you will see that playing with GPU settings can help but it`s really the CPU that is the limiting factor.

 

Some users have overclocked their CPUs to get better performance but that`s a dangerous business if you don`t know what you are doing (overheat your CPU and you will be replacing it much sooner than you expect).

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Posted

Yep, just wait a few more months, and you should see a big improvement in performance. The limiting factor is DX9 - currently most of the processing is done on the CPU, and it is under huge demands.

 

Once Edge appears, it'll be using DX11, and the GPUs will be better employed.

 

But yes, you are comparing apples with pears when it comes to comparing DCS with other software. It is far more demanding because of the way the physics of flight is handled. AFAIK aerodynamics aren't a huge factor with infantry and tanks - at least that was the impression I got when in the military :)

Posted

Last week I got my new computer with the following specs:

 

Processor: INTEL Core i7-4770K (4x 3500 MHz) - 4,3Ghz overclocked !

Cooling: CORSAIR H60 Hydro (liquid cooling)

Moederbord: ASUS Z87 PRO Socket 1150 + WiFi

CORSAIR 16 GB DDR-3 1600 Kit

Videocart: ASUS NVidia GTX780 3072MB DDR5 2x DVI + 1x HDMI + 1x DisplayPort

Solid State Drive: Samsung 840EVO 250Gb (t.b.v. Windows 7 Home Premium 64bits NL)

Solid State Drive: Samsung 840EVO 500Gb (t.b.v. DCS en FSX)

CD/DVD/Blu-Ray burner: ASUS BC-12D2HT Blu-ray Combo 12/16/12/48 Geluidskaart:

Creative X-Fi Extreme Audio PCIe (extra seperate geluidskaart)

COOLMASTER Silent pro Gold 750W/ 85%, 2x PCIe 6+2 pins

LIAN-LI PC-7HX Midi Tower

 

On the 2nd SSD drive I installed DCS World as well as the open Beta version of DCS (1.2.11.34087.547-360-5). On both versions I have problems with sudden drops in frame rate even in paused screens. FPS changes from over far over 100 fps back to 20 fps for a second or so. Then it is building up again to 50.. 60 ... etc to 100 and more. This continues during a regular flight. Only one aircraft as player. With relativ heavy crowed aircraft at an airfield the drops go back to 10 fps and then again to 50 fps or more. In such situations it is disturbing. In straight flights or with a few aircraft it is less disturbing, but still

 

It doesn't matter if all settings are high or low. It happens in every setting I use even in lower resolutiuons. I use one screen (Dell U2413U)

I changed te Nvidia setting several times. Suggested mainly from the forum. Whatever I do nothing helps. Alays the same story sudden drops in frame rate and up to high down to low

 

With such high specs I doe not understand what is wrong: Videocard maybe

 

Any help is welcome. The PC is build by the aviationmagastore in The Netherlands. Mainly Based on FSX with their experience. But we made the choice in PC components which a lot of DCS users use.

 

Any suggestions!!!! HELP

Posted

I think the AMD issue was more a case of AMD not supporting DCS World than the other way round. I am sure that modernising to DX11 will make a huge difference. Obviously there was no conscious decision by ED to give one brand of graphics card support, and not another.

 

Frankly though, when upgrading a computer, serious thought should be given first and foremost to what you'll be using it for, and if it includes DCS World, then it seems obvious that Nvidia cards would be the first choice given recent history, and that can only be AMDs responsibility.

Posted
I think the AMD issue was more a case of AMD not supporting DCS World than the other way round. I am sure that modernising to DX11 will make a huge difference. Obviously there was no conscious decision by ED to give one brand of graphics card support, and not another.

 

Frankly though, when upgrading a computer, serious thought should be given first and foremost to what you'll be using it for, and if it includes DCS World, then it seems obvious that Nvidia cards would be the first choice given recent history, and that can only be AMDs responsibility.

 

Yes, that's true, but I would like ED to give us more info about the edge and amd question. I guess haven't talked about it because they don't know yet but that's a bit frustrating for me. I'd like to switch to nvidia now, but at the same time I don't know if it's worth it knowing that edge will probably balance things out...

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Posted

As far as I know, it was AMD ceasing support for DX9 that caused the problems, so AFAIK it will be resolved by the introduction of Edge which will operate in the DX11 environment. However, I would wait and see what Edge does before making any changes.

 

As for ED letting us know if it'll happen again with AMD, surely the people to ask would be AMD, not ED. I suggest ED are keeping tight lipped about it because Edge is still in development, so who knows what the final iteration will do for any current set up?

Posted
Last week I got my new computer with the following specs:

 

Processor: INTEL Core i7-4770K (4x 3500 MHz) - 4,3Ghz overclocked !

Cooling: CORSAIR H60 Hydro (liquid cooling)

Moederbord: ASUS Z87 PRO Socket 1150 + WiFi

CORSAIR 16 GB DDR-3 1600 Kit

Videocart: ASUS NVidia GTX780 3072MB DDR5 2x DVI + 1x HDMI + 1x DisplayPort

Solid State Drive: Samsung 840EVO 250Gb (t.b.v. Windows 7 Home Premium 64bits NL)

Solid State Drive: Samsung 840EVO 500Gb (t.b.v. DCS en FSX)

CD/DVD/Blu-Ray burner: ASUS BC-12D2HT Blu-ray Combo 12/16/12/48 Geluidskaart:

Creative X-Fi Extreme Audio PCIe (extra seperate geluidskaart)

COOLMASTER Silent pro Gold 750W/ 85%, 2x PCIe 6+2 pins

LIAN-LI PC-7HX Midi Tower

 

On the 2nd SSD drive I installed DCS World as well as the open Beta version of DCS (1.2.11.34087.547-360-5). On both versions I have problems with sudden drops in frame rate even in paused screens. FPS changes from over far over 100 fps back to 20 fps for a second or so. Then it is building up again to 50.. 60 ... etc to 100 and more. This continues during a regular flight. Only one aircraft as player. With relativ heavy crowed aircraft at an airfield the drops go back to 10 fps and then again to 50 fps or more. In such situations it is disturbing. In straight flights or with a few aircraft it is less disturbing, but still

 

It doesn't matter if all settings are high or low. It happens in every setting I use even in lower resolutiuons. I use one screen (Dell U2413U)

I changed te Nvidia setting several times. Suggested mainly from the forum. Whatever I do nothing helps. Alays the same story sudden drops in frame rate and up to high down to low

 

With such high specs I doe not understand what is wrong: Videocard maybe

 

Any help is welcome. The PC is build by the aviationmagastore in The Netherlands. Mainly Based on FSX with their experience. But we made the choice in PC components which a lot of DCS users use.

 

Any suggestions!!!! HELP

 

 

The most thorough FPS test done for DCS available.

It leaves out setting the Nvidia "Render 2 frames ahead" that helped me.

Don't leave out taking a look at Nvidia DSR also, all who have tested it love it.

 

 

This was a Boutique Builder iBuypower rig. Until I got the tinker bug again i7 920 @3.6Mhz 12Gig Corsair XMS3 ram 1600 Nvidia 760 SLi w/4Gig DDR5 Ram Intel 310 SSD HDD 160 Gb + Western Digital 4Terabyte HDD Creative SB X-Fi HD Audio Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Speaker System Dual Acer 32"Monitors. PSU 1200 w Thermaltake Win10 64Bit.

Posted

Dude, the current engines is so old....it isn't obviously optimized for moder day's cpus. It requires very strong single core performece as it can't use more than one core for processing (+1 for the sound)

 

You can not compare DCS to BF as it runs on different engines and even more from different time span

'Shadow'

 

Everybody gotta be offended and take it personally now-a-days

Posted
The most thorough FPS test done for DCS available.

It leaves out setting the Nvidia "Render 2 frames ahead" that helped me.

Don't leave out taking a look at Nvidia DSR also, all who have tested it love it.

 

 

 

Thanks AtaliaA1 for your response. It kept me busy since I got the new PC. It is so frustrating that a computer with such excellent components is not working okay. Many of the DCS simmers have these specs, but I did not read in the forums that much about problems with dropping frames rates just in straight flights without any major buildings or other structures ahead (and as I wrote even when I pause the flight). Sometimes I fly over cities with frames rates around 100 and then leaving the area it drops to 20 or even less. Strange behaviour.

 

Next week I will have substitute the Nvidia card for another GTX 780. Just to see if the Nvidia card itself is the problem. I spend a lot of money and the builder of the PC will help me to locate the problem. Perhaps one or more components are malunctioning. So we start with the Nvidia first.

 

Furthermore I can tell you that my "old" PC has better (better to say stable) FPS with DCS world then the new. That PC is a i7 960 GHZ (a little overclocked), 6 GB DDR RAM, ATI 5770 1 GB DDR, 1 TB harddisk. Just a good PC almost 4 years old. FPS on this PC are far more between 30 and 40 and in heavy areas or more aircrafts etc then it drops to 20 or so. But it never has such high fluctiations as the new one.

 

What I misunderstood from your answer: "it leaves out the setting the NVidia Render 2 frames ahead. Does it mean stay away from Render 2 frames ahead in the settings of the card. Maybe I did not translate correct. What settings should it be???

 

I watched partly the you tube link you gave me. Interesting and I will watch all the ones this simmer made. Perhaps I learn more about it. However is very technical.

 

The best way is to get some simple (well simple????:helpsmilie:) adjustments to the Nvidia card, so it will helps to avoid these strange drops which are in crowded areas extreme disturbing. Because then these drops are making DCS more or less unplayable. In crowded areas the fps are always under pressure. If you then get these extra stutters with drops to 15 or 10 and that makes it actually unplayable. Just then you need a reasonable stable fps.

 

I really hope there is someone who can tell me what settings are best to avoid this fps behaviour more or less

 

Thanks again and please let me know more. Rob

Posted

i7 was your old CPU and you upgraded to an AMD CPU? You said it yourself it was smoother but that would be my thoughts. I used to buy AMD for years as a computer assembler myself but its not the right tool for this job. You need single CPU horsepower. Myself I'm not running the best but it's a Sandy bridge i5 clocked up and I have no complaints.

 

Of course you haven't discussed mission and settings much and they can wreck any hardware when you stick 200 units down and 16 players on a server. Drop a cluster bomb and you can see FPS drop through the CPU cappign out rather than graphics and display issues.

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Posted (edited)

I had the same problems as Tornado.

 

4770k@4.3Ghz

MSI Z87

H80i watercooler

2xGTX970 SLI@stock

16GB mem

Corsair HX1000i

 

First it was from 20 to 140 fps, it drove me nuts. After turning on vsync my problems almost gone, only under heavy load drop to 30fps.

 

I know vsync is a bit of a trade of, but now no more screantearing for me.

 

My other problem was the shitty 2 monts old H80i, there was a air bubble in the cooling block, making the processor throttle down, resulting in stuttering

during flight down to about 8 fps for a couple of seconds.

 

Running now on 3.5 Ghz on intel stock cooler, and tboost disabled.

 

Smooth flying at about 30-60 fps again.

Edited by roko71

9800X, X299 DARK, RTX2080ti, 32GB, 1TB 970 EVO Plus, 512GB 960 Pro, 1TB 850 EVO.

Posted (edited)
I had the same problems as Tornado.

 

4770k@4.3Ghz

MSI Z87

H80i watercooler

2xGTX970 SLI@stock

16GB mem

Corsair HX1000i

 

First it was from 20 to 140 fps, it drove me nuts. After turning on vsync my problems almost gone, only under heavy load drop to 30fps.

 

I know vsync is a bit of a trade of, but now no more screantearing for me.

 

My other problem was the shitty 2 monts old H80i, there was a air bubble in the cooling block, making the processor throttle down, resulting in stuttering

during flight down to about 8 fps for a couple of seconds.

 

Running now on 3.5 Ghz on intel stock cooler, and tboost disabled.

 

Smooth flying at about 30-60 fps again.

 

Good advice. It is strange how different things work for different PCs.

 

Tornado can U just use the older PC for now until DCS 2 come out? would save U a lot of head aches. CCCP is what the reference to render 2 frames ahead was about. It could help U it did for me.

 

Tornado did the builder do any tweaking to the PC like turning off the Page file or turbo boost? Those help newer software not DX9 stuff, turn page file back on and turbo boost if they are off.

 

The videos are a bit technical if U want skip to the last one and use the settings he recommends.

Edited by AtaliaA1

This was a Boutique Builder iBuypower rig. Until I got the tinker bug again i7 920 @3.6Mhz 12Gig Corsair XMS3 ram 1600 Nvidia 760 SLi w/4Gig DDR5 Ram Intel 310 SSD HDD 160 Gb + Western Digital 4Terabyte HDD Creative SB X-Fi HD Audio Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Speaker System Dual Acer 32"Monitors. PSU 1200 w Thermaltake Win10 64Bit.

Posted
Good advice. It is strange how different things work for different PCs.

 

Tornado can U just use the older PC for now until DCS 2 come out? would save U a lot of head aches. CCCP is what the reference to render 2 frames ahead was about. It could help U it did for me.

 

Tornado did the builder do any tweaking to the PC like turning off the Page file or turbo boost? Those help newer software not DX9 stuff, turn page file back on and turbo boost if they are off.

 

The videos are a bit technical if U want skip to the last one and use the settings he recommends.

 

Thanks for all advises. I tested DCS with almost every setting (whatever setting you can imagine)of the nVidia card. Made several profiles in de CP of the nVidia software. Conclusion nothing works. It always has the same problem going back and fourth in FPS. This runs me crazy. Even in the lowest settings in DCS world I get the same problem 10 seconds okay and then 1 to 2 seconds down with the FPS. The most frustrating plane is the Mig21. Because this application is more heavy then the F15C for instance. So the FPS are lower form the start and when I then get these FPS dorps it will be 12 to 15 or even less and then after each 10 or 8 seconds.

It are just single flights from Batumi, 12.00 hrs no clouds etc. Just a simple take off from the runway turning to the city and flying over it.

 

All problems actually started when I had to go back with my PC to the builder (because my Wifi card did not work, so a new one was installed). The weekend before (last weekend) before changing the wifi card the PC had a very good preformance. Then 1.2.10 was the latest version. On Tuesday the 11th 1.2.11 was launched and updated it via the autoupdate. After that it became a mess with the FPS. It was not to blame the update I discovered as this weekend I installed 1.2.10 (fortunately I had the files downloaded) back to see if 11 was the problem. But invain it was not version 11 as version 10 had similar problems. Also the Beta version I have on the PC. Also the same problem stange behaviour of teh FPS.

 

I really get mad as it takes me so much effort to get it right and nothing helps. Really nothing. Paid a lot of money and my old rig is doing better (almost 4 years old). I can not imagine that I have to wait for DCS 2.0. With such specs in my new PC it must run. Maybe some hick ups, but not this strange FPS behavior. I had to write this sooner, but the testing took almost the whole day. Any other help is welcome. Suggestions let me know.

Posted (edited)

Just to be sure,

 

did you check your cpu core temperatures. I mean the 4 cores not the package temp.

 

I may be totaly wrong, but it is a verry fast check.

 

Download Realtemp and Prime95, extract both in the same folder.

 

run realtemp and run prime95 through realtemp.

It wil tell you in a hurry if your builder didn't accidentaly knock the cpu cooler and therefore throttle your cpu.(Or like in my case, tilting the case and letting a airbubble in the radiator travel to the waterblock.)

 

 

As long as the temps are below 90, then you can rule that out.(this is btw NOT an ok temp for everyday use, but after that the cpu will just slow down to a crawl)

 

I hope for you that it is something stupid and simpel as this.

 

Good luck

 

PS Just my 2 cents, seeing your system specs i would go for a bigger watercooler. The thin 120 rad in the h60 is not realy up to the task of keeping a 4770oced cool.

Edited by roko71

9800X, X299 DARK, RTX2080ti, 32GB, 1TB 970 EVO Plus, 512GB 960 Pro, 1TB 850 EVO.

Posted

Thanks Roko71 this morning I downloaded realtemp en Prime95. I started Prime95 first, so the PC started to make more noise etc. Then I started Realtemp and saw the 4 cores running temp wise. But none of them came above 90C. After 5 minutes I had the following temps: 84, 83, 78 and 74 recorded. So I don't think it will be the liquid cooling system. So we can rule this out (for the moment). The video card will be the next target. Maybe I have to go back to an ATI card. In my other PC I have a simple ATI card HD 5770. Never had problems with that one. But I still doubt about all. I am not an expert in technical components of a PC. I know some basic things but that's it. Thanks for your help anyway. If you have more suggestions please advise

Posted

Tornado. I was so enamored by the system specs. I didn't notice the "Overclock". Some have had to remove the overclock to get DCS working right. I asked about the page file but the overclock and some of the settings to reach a stable overclock are bad in DX9 software titles (unfortunately). Try turning them back to default and I bet dollars to donuts it will run smooth again.

This was a Boutique Builder iBuypower rig. Until I got the tinker bug again i7 920 @3.6Mhz 12Gig Corsair XMS3 ram 1600 Nvidia 760 SLi w/4Gig DDR5 Ram Intel 310 SSD HDD 160 Gb + Western Digital 4Terabyte HDD Creative SB X-Fi HD Audio Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Speaker System Dual Acer 32"Monitors. PSU 1200 w Thermaltake Win10 64Bit.

Posted

Thanks AtlaliaA1. I was so busy in tuning the nVidia card for hours and hours. But the 4770K is not overclocked. It was actually stated by the builder in his offer price. So assumed that also did carry out the overclocking process, but today I found out that 4770K is still running on default (3,5GHZ) setting.

 

I did install the turbo boost as suggested by you. No results however that benefit. Also the page file did not work. The most strange event of today. For one run in DCS with the Mig 21 after the some many change in the nVidia CP I had a good session. Stable FPS with the Mig which were high ranging from 100 to 80 only. I thought: "yes I have it set!!!!". The rig saw the light. Left DCS world and wrote down these settings. Started again and hope was gone. Same issue.

 

Most frustrating is the Mig 21 as it is heavy one it self, so it get drop down in FPS they go way down to 12-15. With the F15 you have these drops too, but the model is less heavy and the drops stop and 20 or maybe 19. In ratio the FPS goes down with the aircraft you use. The mig 21 will be become unmanageable. Even in downgrading to the lowest setting you can imagine in DCS (everything on low and to zero, as well as resolution 1024x768).

 

It seems that my PC doesn't like the nVidia or the other way around. Will ATI cards solve the problem????? Since 2003 I had 3 PC's all with ATI cards. When I upgraded them always took an ATI. Never had any complaints about these one. In i7 960 I have relativ cheap ATI a HD 5770. Works fine....

Oh boy what frustrating. Spent hours and hours in changing settings the last few of days. My eyes are square shaped as we say overhere...

 

Any ideas or suggestions which come to your mind are welcome

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