Bidartarra Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 The question is, is that radar on the AIM120 sufficient to track the Mig anyway and the missile is capable of holding on Mig21 in all cases? At those ranges I would say the relative motion between the seeker and the mig is not big enough to make the missile loose the lock.
GGTharos Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Should situation differ from F15 firing a AIM120 and still tracking from F15 firing the same missile but pull away and lose track after the missile had gone active? I'm thinking that the radar on the missile is no match on the one of the aircraft it self and given the mountains, Mig21 size and maneuvering and the depth of the simulation they should differ in a observable measure. That really depends. How far away are you losing track from? Can the mountains actually hide the target? Does the target have time to leave the capture basket? An AIM-120 launched BVR with no M-Link at all (ie. just inertial-to-active) was found to have the Pk of a modern sparrow, which is still dangerous. The more you use m-link, the more the Pk goes up. When the seeker goes active it's 'more vulnerable' if the m-link is terminated, but not really to a MiG-21. Case in point, modern 120 tactics involve 'cheap shot' (missile supported to HPRF active only) against certain types of targets, and 'pitbull' or 'F-pole' against others. I say this because I have seen on tacview quite a few time the F15s firing in almost fire and forget way its missiles. On multiplayer. Yep, it's okay if you launch within a certain range, but the missile guidance logic can't handle things beyond that range. This is basically under-modelling, and while we're talking about 120's, they're not the only missile subject to this. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 It will happily track low-flying cruise missiles ... no reason for a MiG-21 to cause it problems IMHO. In-game, missile logic causes the missile to lose track in situations where it shouldn't, or at least, not as easily as it does now. The question is, is that radar on the AIM120 sufficient to track the Mig anyway and the missile is capable of holding on Mig21 in all cases? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Bidartarra Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 I feel like flying my Mig now. Oh wait bad weather this week end. Excuse found haha.
Nerd1000 Posted August 14, 2015 Posted August 14, 2015 It should drop the lock here. Not 100% true. Even the earliest lock-on capable airborne radars (such as the AI Mk IX from ~1944) use a range gate- when locked they reject returns that are sufficiently closer or further away than the target was on the last pulse. The MiG shouldn't have a hope of keeping lock on a low flying target that is below the horizon, but if you and your target have got enough altitude the radar should be able to reject the ground clutter, as it is significantly more distant than the target. This is of course dependent on actually getting a lock first. One other limitation is that AFAIK the MiG radar has no way of telling the difference between a plane and chaff without the 'passives' filter on. If you have a lock on a plane and it deploys chaff the radar should probably begin to track the chaff cloud rather than the plane.
Zomba Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 Got a sweet kill last night. Cruised on over to the Caucasus mountains from the north nice and high to let their radar see me. I then cruised and dived down heading east, dipped below radar and sprinted west and lurked. An F-15 came looking where he thought I would be. I started getting the odd tickle on my RWR. Skimming rocks over to where I believed he was at best speed, I was rolling Mig and porpoising above ridgelines to get looks up high with RWR. I get much RWR so I stay low and then pop up for quick listen; I get no signal. Believing he has turned cold I sprint under stage 2 AB and blink the radar. I see him and quickly turn off radar. I get closer and blink again. He has dropped to horizon line and I can't grab a lock. I switch to IR, but he is pulling G and I shoot past very fast. I choose not to stay with him and dive instead, keeping my energy. In a valley I go, seconds later RWR gets strong activity and then lock warning. I pull heavy G going up a side valley and break lock. Decision time, do I attack or retreat? The tables have turned in his favour and it's only some time before he gets me again. I go for attack, thinking it's not what he expects. I turn up another valley heading back to where I came from. I think he is trying to follow me down my escape valley so halfway along I roll over the top of the dividing ridge and back into escape valley into what I believe is behind him.Radar is useless so I use IR, sniffing the valley and trying to acquire, but nothing. I worry now, maybe he stayed high? I blink radar and pull a bit of pitch, but nothing is there. I roll over ridge back into the other valley and head back to the start of engagement. I look up and see a small line of contrail! He had zoom climb and was now beginning to dive to do a lookdown search of both valleys by the looks of it. I go full AB and sprint to get under his radar before he can bring it to bear. I'm sure i'm below the radar sector and zoom climb and pull a bit of lead. Radar on, aquire, lock, shoot, next station, shoot. Splash one F-15. RTB to Maykop with very little reserve. Very cool to engage an F-15 that is actively trying to pursue you. I don't test for bugs, but when I do I do it in production.
Cibit Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 I flew against an AI mig21 in the F/A 18c mod cannons only and pwned it. I don't think I could do the same in a Mig21. I love flying it but it's always controlled chaos :) i5 8600k@5.2Ghz, Asus Prime A Z370, 32Gb DDR4 3000, GTX1080 SC, Oculus Rift CV1, Modded TM Warthog Modded X52 Collective, Jetseat, W10 Pro 64 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Adding JTAC Guide //My Vid's//229th AHB
ttaylor0024 Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I flew against an AI mig21 in the F/A 18c mod cannons only and pwned it. I don't think I could do the same in a Mig21. I love flying it but it's always controlled chaos :) The AI aren't very good. It's pretty easy to beat an "expert" AI F-15 guns only. Anyway, I'm back from a long hiatus, if anyone wants to get some -21 action in online let me know.
Nerd1000 Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 The AI aren't very good. It's pretty easy to beat an "expert" AI F-15 guns only. Anyway, I'm back from a long hiatus, if anyone wants to get some -21 action in online let me know. Indeed, the AI has an odd mix of super-powers (Super situational awareness, simplified FM, unrealistic weapon lock abilities) and total ineptitude (cannot even do BFM). It makes fighting them very weird.
PiedDroit Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Indeed, the AI has an odd mix of super-powers (Super situational awareness, simplified FM, unrealistic weapon lock abilities) and total ineptitude (cannot even do BFM). It makes fighting them very weird. That's not odd, it's always been like that since the dawn of videogaming ;) Good AI is difficult to make and is resource hungry, the game makers have to cheat to maintain challenge for the player.
Nerd1000 Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 That's not odd, it's always been like that since the dawn of videogaming ;) Good AI is difficult to make and is resource hungry, the game makers have to cheat to maintain challenge for the player. Indeed, the AI cheating is entirely normal. It can look or feel weird at times though.
coldViPer Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Nice numbers you have there mate! Yesterday I tried a different loadout, only IRs 2 x R60m and 2 x R-13M1, this combo really works. Succesfully sneaked behind the F-15 and got him, was fun. What loadout you guys using mainly? Asus Prime X570-P * Ryzen 5800X3D + Scythe Fuma cooler * RTX 4080 Super * Corsair 64GB DDR4 3600MHz * Samsung 980 pro 2Tb + 1Tb nvme * Samsung 850 EVO 512Gb SSD * Corsair RM850x V2/2018 * HP Reverb G2 * CH Fighterstick/Pedals/Throttle * Win11 Pro
EagleFox Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 I mainly use 4x R60m, 2x R3R 800L fuel tank and now I mostly use JATO over CM pod. Had much kills with it.
Frostie Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 R-60m + R-13M1. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
Bidartarra Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Nice numbers you have there mate! Yesterday I tried a different loadout, only IRs 2 x R60m and 2 x R-13M1, this combo really works. Succesfully sneaked behind the F-15 and got him, was fun. What loadout you guys using mainly? Thanks! I use 2xR3r + 2xR13m1 + 800l fuel tank + jato
QuiGon Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 So many RATOs, are CM so ineffective? Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Bidartarra Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 So many RATOs, are CM so ineffective? I defeated a missile with my CM once...in months flying the 21. As my main defence is hiding behind the terrain, nothing says more "hey I'm here! " than a trail of flares.
WinterH Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 You carry ony 30 chaff / flares if I'm not mistaken, so you run out of it pretty quicky, and ASO-2 fire them downwards, when you fly as low as treetops, your countermeasures gets eaten by terra firma pretty quick after they're released. I still prefer to take them but, I can see why others don't. Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script
Tirak Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 There's just no point. You don't get enough, and the style of engagement you fight just isn't conducive to using the CM pods. Your best defense is terrain masking for that surprise opening attack, once the enemy gets into a position to shoot, the MiG is dead, so you may as well have fun on takeoff with the RATO pods.
Nerd1000 Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 I usually carry the 800L tank, a full gun load, Countermeasure dispensers, 2x R-60M and 2x R-3R. The CMs aren't very effective in most cases, but I don't see the point of RATO bottles when we always have access to nice long runways. Even a 1% chance of spoofing a missile is better than 0% IMO.
TomCatMucDe Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 I usually carry the 800L tank, a full gun load, Countermeasure dispensers, 2x R-60M and 2x R-3R. The CMs aren't very effective in most cases, but I don't see the point of RATO bottles when we always have access to nice long runways. Even a 1% chance of spoofing a missile is better than 0% IMO. why R60M?
QuiGon Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 why R60M? You get two of em, which IMHO outweights the lack of punch and as far as I know they have a better seeker and better maneuverability. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
TheSnark Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 The R-13M is nice against bombers though, doesn't always make it a one shot still.
Darkwolf Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 R60 vs R13 is a tough choice : R60 is manoeuvrable but way more prone to go against flare, and carrying 4 will just kill your manoeuvrability. R13 has a very good acquisition cone, manoeuver ok BUT it manoeuver only after a couple of seconds, so a close target is out of question. When i merge, i just drop everything and go gun. The Mig-21 is very manoeuvrable if you drop everything and go manual ARU. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] PC simulator news site. Also....Join the largest DCS community on Facebook :pilotfly:
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